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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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slammer6delta
.224 member


Reged: 31/12/04
Posts: 47
Loc: KY
About all this heat stuff??
      #23570 - 06/01/05 05:08 PM

I am just wondering what all this deal about heat and rifles causing problems. I was in the Iraqi desert most all of 2003 and I never had any problems. Just curious?



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Will
.333 member


Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: About all this heat stuff?? [Re: slammer6delta]
      #23581 - 07/01/05 12:31 AM

Lawndart over on AR is suppose to do some pressure testing on the 416 Rem. because of all the rumors of high pressure that only supposedly occur in Africa.

Mostly I think it is a non-issue that has grown into urban legend status. I've never had any problems with the 416 Rem in Africa.

I did get some erratic velocity and apparently high pressure rounds from my .375 and .280 Rem using old compressed loads with IMR 4350 (caking of the powder). Using old loads may be more of an issue than high ambient temperatures, but look forward to Lawndarts test data.

--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.


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ATHiker07
.275 member


Reged: 10/12/04
Posts: 51
Loc: Florida
Re: About all this heat stuff?? [Re: slammer6delta]
      #23589 - 07/01/05 01:22 AM

Here in Florida on a hot summer day (95-98 f) I have to be careful when shooting Winchester factory ammo from my Savage 7mm Rem Mag. It only seems to happen with the 150 gr. Power Points, but my primers are really flattened and there is evidence of severe case stretch in front of the belt. This never happens in cooler weather and is less noticable with other ammo. I have never checked headspace in this rifle, but that could be a contributing factor.

--------------------
Take a child hunting, they are the future of our sport!


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39245
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: About all this heat stuff?? [Re: slammer6delta]
      #23592 - 07/01/05 01:48 AM

Australia's ADI (Australian Defence Industries) makes a number of propellants designed to function well in temperature extremes. The powders are referred to as eg AR2006 etc. Some are called Hogdon in the USA.

But I forget which of the powders in particular were designed for use in hot climates.

If you look at their website there may be some information there.

***

Personally I have never noticed any problems but none of my own loads are any where near maximum.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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BFaucett
.333 member


Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 449
Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: About all this heat stuff?? [Re: NitroX]
      #23604 - 07/01/05 04:56 AM

From Hodgdon' web site:

"Our exclusive line of extruded rifle powders – Hodgdon Extreme – was developed to give shooters consistent performance, load after load, in even the most extreme heat and cold."

For a list powders that are part of the Extreme line, see:
http://www.hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/page4.php

Be sure to take the "Extreme Tour" at:
http://www.hodgdon.com/smokeless/extreme/index.php
Interesting info. (It consists of several web pages so be sure to look for the Continue/Forward buttons on each page.)

-Bob F.


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butchloc
.300 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn
Re: About all this heat stuff?? [Re: slammer6delta]
      #23606 - 07/01/05 05:29 AM

I had the problem once. had some 223's loaded w/69 gr noslers. I loaded them in winter in minnesota and they worked perfectly. took them out in the south dakota prairie in summer shooting dogs, and blew primers. had to take a grain out of them. this was with H335 powder

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vapodog
.300 member


Reged: 28/12/04
Posts: 237
Loc: Nebraska USA
Re: About all this heat stuff?? [Re: slammer6delta]
      #23607 - 07/01/05 05:36 AM

from my own personal experience with prairie dog shooting (the only hot weather shooting I do) there seems to be a risk in high pressures with heat.....but I'll qualify that a little.....
first there's been a long list of shooters before me that have warned of this problem.....and so many that it begins to carry a lot of credibility.

second.....all my loads for this game are handloads and usually to the "book" max.....

third...some of my rounds can get so hot that I can't even touch them if they're left in the sun where something can magnify the rays.....dashboards seem to do that well.....at times cartridges left in the auto can become extremely hot.....we're talking about unable to hold them in your hands hot.....

It is at these times when I have experienced pierced primers.....sticky extraction, and flattened primers.

Also it's at times like these that the gun barrel can get very warm.....and as much as I hate to say it at times to the point that I can't hold the gun by the barrel. A cartridge in the chamber for ten minutes in that condition can be very hot.....

It must be said that I have no experience with factory loaded ammo in this condition and that of the thousands of rounds I've shot under these conditions have I ever had a serious problem.....but I've never been charged and seriously threatened by a prairie dog either.

I have had three .223 rifles that was rendered inoperable because the discs from pierced primers caused the firing pins to stick and I had to clean them out before I resumed shooting. Thereafter I kept the ammo in a cooler and had no further problem. In subsequent years I reduced the load by one grain and again had no further problem.

In my mind hot climes can increase pressures.....but only the kind of heat that is seriously magnified by the suns rays.....not by ambient temps. Ammo kept in the pocket is not a problem at 100 degrees.....all it needs is something to keep the sun off the brass.

This issue certainly wouldn't keep me from using a .375 H&H or a .416 Rem Mag in a hot climate.....but I would keep the ammo in a protected place out of the sun and it would be handloaded to something less than "book" max. Both these cartridges have the muscle to do what ever they're pointed at and then some.....and a grain or three less powder don't mean a pinch of shit.....except it just might make extraction a little easier.

How important an issue is this?.....IMO it ranks right up there with the age old arguement of controlled round feed and double rifles VS bolt actions.....you do your job right and the rest of it don't mean shit.

Excuse me now....I'm going out to shoot my bolt action .404 Jeff in controlled round feed.

--------------------


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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: About all this heat stuff?? [Re: slammer6delta]
      #23632 - 07/01/05 10:26 AM

Slammer

Check out this thread from last year.


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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: About all this heat stuff?? [Re: slammer6delta]
      #23690 - 08/01/05 06:32 AM

slammer,

With Win. factory .223 ammo, it shoots fine for me at 80 degrees, but at 105 degrees about every 3rd round blows its primer. Disregarding all theory, this is first hand experience that tells me heat can have an effect on pressure in ammo. There were reports of Rem factory .416 ammo causing sticky extraction in African summer temps. But Rem has since changed their loading and there are no recent reports of this problem. Some factory .458 win. loadings also suffered from sticky extration. And Weatherby factory ammo has experienced several incidens of stuck cases in African heat.

In a DG situation I prefer to use a load which is well below max pressures just in case. Better safe than sorry.


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AussieMike
.300 member


Reged: 01/09/04
Posts: 236
Loc: Southern Tablelands, NSW, Aust...
Re: About all this heat stuff?? [Re: 500grains]
      #23828 - 10/01/05 09:47 AM

The temperature sensitivity issue is not just the risk of excessive pressure but also change in point of impact. Even if you reduce the load so that pressures are safe at high ambient temperature you may still get a significant change in point of impact. Enough, with my 17 Rem to completely miss a rabbit at 150 yards. The ADI powders are a lot better, in my experience and we can always get them in Oz which can't be said for other brands.

mike


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SAHUNT
Sponsor


Reged: 27/12/04
Posts: 900
Loc: Centurion, RSA
Re: About all this heat stuff?? [Re: 500grains]
      #23889 - 11/01/05 07:21 AM

The ambient temprature do play a big role in the preasure. I am not familiar with the different propelents you use, but extruded propellants are less sensitive to ambient temprature changes than ball propellants. I swithed to extruded propellants about 2 years ago and never had presure problems or a major shift in point of impact.

--------------------
Life is how you pass the time between hunting trips.
Sometimes I do not express myself properly in the English language, please forgive me, I am just a boertjie.
Jaco Human
jacohu@mweb.co.za
SA Hunting Experience


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