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Nordmann
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Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE.
      #234148 - 13/08/13 09:47 AM

Just thought I would get it out, give it a clean and let it breath some fresh air.

As it lies there in its case its strange to think that many huge African Elephant's were shot with this rifle. It's quite possible that he used this to shoot the longstanding SCI World Record Elephant plus three more in the Top Ten of the category.

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy239/Nordmanndk/20130812_155934.jpg

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James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.

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Huvius
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: Nordmann]
      #234152 - 13/08/13 11:20 AM

If owned by nobody in particular, how would the modern scope mounting effect the value of an H&H double?
I just turned down a 500/450 because it had a modern claw mount scope and was regulated for 365gr. bullets. Didn't really weigh enough to shoot full power loads with 480gr bullets comfortably either eventhough it was proofed for the full charge.

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500Nitro
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: Huvius]
      #234153 - 13/08/13 11:27 AM


Nordmann

Nice.

Genuine questions.

What's the age on the 465 ?

Was it a 450 rebarreled like a lot of them were
or was it made as a 465 and what date.

Interesting that it doesn't have the bolsters.

A classic gun.

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500Nitro
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #234155 - 13/08/13 12:56 PM


Nordmann

Do you have his H&H Royal Ejector 375 Flanged Magnum ?

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Nordmann
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #234173 - 13/08/13 06:29 PM

Huvlus:

Here is another almost identical H&H 500/465 rifle, exact same caliber, age, frame, maker (NO MODERN SCOPE MOUNTS) and the rifle is as new original.

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy239/Nordmanndk/P6210265.jpg

IMO, an original mint pre war H&H rifle (like the one above) would be worth up to twice as much as the rebarelled /modern scope mounted/ poorer conditioned one.

However, because the scope mountings on the poorer rifle were fitted by Hollands, at the request of Pechenart, when the rifle was re barreled in the 50's, then it is this provenance, and this provenance alone which makes his gun worth more. Perhaps, up to twice as much as the mint gun



500Nitro:

I do also have his .375.

This 500/465 was built 1912 as a 500/465, then re-barreled in 1951 - 24" by Hollands. It is actually the rifle he shot the world record elephant with plus most of his other SCI world records,

Couple more photos of the M. Pechenart rifle (sorry for the poor quality, took them with my i-phone)

http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy239/Nordmanndk/20130812_170439.jpg
http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/yy239/Nordmanndk/20130812_170143.jpg

Pechenart also had a .577NE H&H which his wife gave to the chief of the Paris postal services when he died. Apparently whenever he returned home to Paris from safari, the postal chief made always made sure that all his rifles were delivered directly to his apartment. For this they were very grateful.

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kuduae
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: Nordmann]
      #234175 - 13/08/13 07:30 PM

That Swarowski scope and the Recknagel type side swing mounts may have been fitted by Holland & Holland, but not in the 1950s when they rebarreled the rifle for M.Pechenard. Both scope and mounts are from the late 1980s at best, more likely after 2000.

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Nordmann
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: kuduae]
      #234179 - 13/08/13 08:17 PM

Now your talking about scope and mounts, I was talking about the fittings on the barrels!

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James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.

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kuduae
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: Nordmann]
      #234186 - 13/08/13 09:29 PM

I am talking about the scope mount bases (fittings) set into the barrel rib too! This type of scope mount with the side-swing slot front and a prism for locking at rear was invented about 1960 by Rudi Triebel, Kaufbeuren (not to be confused with the pre-war Suhl claw-mount maker Albert Wilhelm Triebel), but Triebel put his handmade mounts on bolt actions only. In 1980 the German scope mount maker EAW adapted Triebel's basic design with a lever locking the rear ring to the prism to break-open guns. A year later, 1981, Blaser announced a similar mount with a turning collar locking the rear ring. The parts for these mounts are now made by EAW, Recknagel and Kilic for the worldwide market. To me, the mount bases mounted into the barrel rib of the Pechenard H&H look a lot like Recknagel's, used in recent years by British "name" gunmakers too, as they are simply the best, most versatile and elegant on the market.

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500Nitro
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: kuduae]
      #234188 - 13/08/13 10:05 PM


Thanks

Very interesting.

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Nordmann
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #234190 - 13/08/13 10:33 PM

However, because the scope mountings on the poorer rifle were fitted by Hollands, at the request of Pechenart, when the rifle was re barreled in the 50's, then it is this proven.......


should perhaps have said


because the rifle was rebarelled by Hollands at Pechenarts request in the 1950's, and because it is Pechenarts rifle then the provenance.....

Kuduae.....I have to admit I am no authority on mounts and scopes..

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James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.

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Huvius
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: Nordmann]
      #234191 - 13/08/13 10:41 PM

Quote:

IMO, an original mint pre war H&H rifle (like the one above) would be worth up to twice as much as the rebarelled /modern scope mounted/ poorer conditioned one.



The gun I passed on wasn't rebarreled, just had scope mounts added by Roberts sometime in the '80s.
The price is €32K.
With the prices of these Hollands the way they are, might be worth another look.
I passed another, a 500/465 non bolstered gun in virtually new condidtion a few years ago and sure wish I had bought it now! Probably worth twice what it was priced at then.

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DORLEAC
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: Huvius]
      #234192 - 13/08/13 10:59 PM

I will like to get a few things straight about my friend Marc Pechenart.
In fact, Marc hasn't used much the .500-465 double rifle; his favorite weapon was an H&H Royal, caliber 475 No2.
I have got many of his rifles in my hands, and especially this famous .475 No2 for which he later had a second forend semi beavertail forend made by H&H. This forend was shaped beavertail to allow the rifle to be better controlled with wet hands when he was hunting elephants in the wet season in forests.
Notice that many French and Belgian who hunted in Central and West Africa, mainly in forest, favored the 475No2 cartridge.
He autographed a picture for me of his elephant record shot with this same double rifle. It reads: "January 79 - Khartoum - CAR 61 & 63 Kg - .475 No2 Holland & Holland - Spinal solid bullet. For my friend Joel Dorleac - Marc Pechenart".
He owned other H&H Royal double rifles, but didn't show much interest for these guns except for a Super 30 that he especially liked and that I saw him use regularly for driven hunts at Vauguion.
He was more a hunter than a collector
By the end of his life and for his latest safaris, especially in Mozambique if my memory is not failing me, his double rifles were set up with Swarovski or Zeiss scopes. The installation had been done by H&H in Paris, then under supervision of Pierre Bernstein. It seems that for easiness and not to alter the open sights plane, a pivoting Eramatic system was preferred.
For having had a long friendly relationship as well as long conversations with him, I always heard him state that, for him, in Africa, only two calibers were worth it: .475 No2 for double rifles and .300 H&H Magnum Rimless for rifles. We built his last rifle before he passed away in this last caliber (.300 H&H Magnum Rimless Best Quality Mauser SN MP-967).
Here you will find a photo of the 79' Khartoum big tusker: http://www.dorleac-dorleac.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Hunting-Gallery-021.jpg
And on this one, taken at Vauguion circa 2002, the great man is sitting among his best trophies, holding one of his DR: http://www.dorleac-dorleac.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Hunting-Gallery-40.jpg

Best to all.

DORLEAC

www.dorleac-dorleac.com

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500Nitro
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: DORLEAC]
      #234193 - 13/08/13 11:03 PM


Dorleac

Re this photo

"And on this one, taken at Vauguion circa 2002, the great man is sitting among his best trophies, holding one of his DR: http://www.dorleac-dorleac.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Hunting-Gallery-40.jpg


I looked at that closely, please correct me but it looks
like his H&H Royal Ejector 375 Flanged.

It seem to have the bolsters.

Any thoughts and thank you for posting.

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Huvius
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #234194 - 13/08/13 11:11 PM

Quote:


Re this photo...looks
like his H&H Royal Ejector 375 Flanged.



Quite a thin pad on it as well! Must be the .375.

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500Nitro
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: Huvius]
      #234197 - 13/08/13 11:20 PM


A few things match up as far as I can tell.

Bolsters
Barrel thickness.
Barrel wedge on end of barrels.
Light spot on stock - possibly
Recoil pad thickness looks similar.

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DORLEAC
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: Huvius]
      #234199 - 13/08/13 11:26 PM

Yes, indeed, it's the .375 or perhaps his beloved .300 Flanged.
He used it quite a lot on wild boars...!
When the photo was taken at Vauguion, by his brother Xavier, I think, the big DR were at Paris, avenue du President Wilson, in the XVI.

DORLEAC

www.dorleac-dorleac.com

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kuduae
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: DORLEAC]
      #234200 - 13/08/13 11:27 PM

Quote:

The installation had been done by H&H in Paris, then under supervision of Pierre Bernstein. It seems that for easiness and not to alter the open sights plane, a pivoting Eramatic system was preferred.


Just before someone asks: "Eramatic" is Recknagel's name for their pivot mounts of this type.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: kuduae]
      #234203 - 14/08/13 12:25 AM

Very interesting rifles and story to go with them. I wonder where the .475 #2 can be found now. That's the one to have!

Thanks for posting all.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Nordmann
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: kuduae]
      #234208 - 14/08/13 12:38 AM

Quite strange that!

You always heard him state that, for him, in Africa, only two calibers were worth it: .475 No2 for double rifles and .300 H&H Magnum Rimless for rifles" yet when the great man is photographed sitting among his "best" trophies in Africa, he is holding his H&H .375!

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James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: Nordmann]
      #234210 - 14/08/13 12:52 AM

Per Mr. Dorleac (above):

Quote:

When the photo was taken at Vauguion, by his brother Xavier, I think, the big DR were at Paris, avenue du President Wilson, in the XVI.



Evidently, he posed with the rifle that was available, not his elephant rifle. That's the way I read it. Still a great and impressive photograph with all that ivory.

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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500Nitro
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: CptCurl]
      #234211 - 14/08/13 12:54 AM



That's the way I read it as well.

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DORLEAC
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: Nordmann]
      #234214 - 14/08/13 02:15 AM

Nordmann,

There's nothing here against you, nor against the very fine H&H double rifles you own.
As I wrote earlier, Marc was more a hunter than a collector and I'm sure that he loved the .375 at least the same he loved his Borovnik vierling or his Haupmann kipplauff. He was a strange man about his rifles choices, one day morning he could choose an odd caliber single shot Austrian kipplauf for boar driven hunt and take a light double rifle the afternoon for roe deer stalking… what was the most important for him, was the fun !
I have seen many, many rifles in his hands and when you were at Vauguion for the great hunting mass, they were always a lot of fine rifles at the guests’ disposal.
Of his piece of heaven, I am certain that he well has to laugh at our discussion.

DORLEAC

www.dorleac-dorleac.com

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kuduae
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #234215 - 14/08/13 02:21 AM

Please reread Dorleac's posts: "... or perhaps his beloved .300 Flanged. He used it quite a lot on wild boars...", "... the photo was taken at Vauguion...", earlier: "He owned other H&H Royal double rifles, but didn't show much interest for these guns except for a Super 30 that he especially liked and that I saw him use regularly for driven hunts at Vauguion."
IMHO it is very likely that he holds his H&H .300 Flanged aka Super .30 in the trophy photo, as that's the rifle he used regularly when he was in the place where the photo was taken, Vauguion.

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Nordmann
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: kuduae]
      #234217 - 14/08/13 03:08 AM

I'll will be holding a few fabulous rifles tomorrow thats all that counts!

Full report will follow

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James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.

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gryphon
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Re: Marc Pechenart's iconic H&H 500/465 NE. [Re: Nordmann]
      #234235 - 14/08/13 09:02 AM

Now that bloke would have to be an authority on hunting/shooting elephants and THE firearms to use for such...incredible line of trophy tusks in that photo.

I dont know about the zillion dollar value of the tusks but the wood turning bases would buy me a new truck alone!

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