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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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500Nitro
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Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: buckstix]
      #233697 - 07/08/13 06:37 AM


Well done buckstix.

What is that, two light / medium calibre double rifles
for under $6000 or $7000 ?

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233698 - 07/08/13 06:44 AM

Quote:

I tagged it with a minimal bid just to track how high it would go, never thinking I would actually get it so cheap.





So you do that too? It's surprising to get a notice you have bought something when days later you scarcely remember bidding! I've had it happen several times - some to the good; some not so good.

This one looks to the good.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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buckstix
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: Buchsemann]
      #233703 - 07/08/13 07:46 AM

Hello Buchseman,

Quote:

PS - I haven't run out of fingers as yet but let's see: Fraser 9.3X74R, Lefauxcheau 8mm Lebel, Westley Richards .375 Flanged, William Richards .577 BPE, Stendebach 8X57JR and now a Belgian .303 "Something"; all in the last year or so. Have I forgotten any? I think most will agree that you have a pretty severe case of "Doublerifleitis"; not that there is anything wrong with that of course.



Well, you are close. My sickness with "Doublerifleitis" is much worse than you can imagine. It really does have me seeing double.

First, in December of 2012 I got my first double rifle, a Dan'l Fraser 9.3x74R. A wonderful trade deal- no cash. This one must have infected me, and caused my illness.



Second, in February I got the Cute little Lefaucheux 8mm Lebel. Lots of Fun.



Third, in March came a Baikal 45-70 that worked to pass the time while waiting for the other 2 doubles to cool. (I sold the Baikal to a Northern Wisconsin Hunter in April. He wanted a Bear gun.)



Forth, in May I got a brand new Sabatti. Why in the world would the Italians make a 9.3x74R that weighed only 6 pounds 15 ounces? (2 SHOTS ... & GONE THE NEXT DAY)



Fifth, in June I got the Westley Richards 375-2-1/2" Flanged with the 16" barrels. I was really lucky, and I love this one. I've got over a hundred rounds through it, and it makes me smile every time it barks.


Sixth, in June I also got a minty Pedersolli 45-70. Its nice and heavy and very accurate, and again it helps to pass the time while waiting for the other doubles to cool off.



Seventh, in July I got the William Richards 577-500 bpe. That one was actually kinda in the works when the WR showed up unexpectedly. As much as I really wasn't going to buy it, I just couldn't justify passing on this really nice 577-500 hammer double, that also came with over $1200 worth of accessories, "and" was a "trade" deal that required very little cash outlay. I'm learning "paper-patch" now. Thanks Roscoe.



Eighth, in late July I bought the "Special" Stenda-Werke 8x57R as a tribute to my Special Dad. He would have liked this one.



Ninth, and now in August, this nifty little Belgium 303 Savage comes along. Very much unexpected, kinda like a "seizure" in my sickness. A "twitch" and it was mine. I can't wait to see it.



So, with 2 having gone away, that leaves me with only 7 doubles now. Based on that, I think I'm slowly getting better. I've promised myself that 7 is my lucky number. So, no more, and then I will be cured!

However, I must tell you all, about this strange disease. The real symptoms of my disease, come from a "micro-bladder" problem. I drink a lot of water every night before I go to bed. I wake up 2 or 3 times in the night and have to "pee", and I always have a hard time going back to sleep. So, I leave my computer on all night and I scan the internet for a half hour or so, until I get tired. Then I go back to bed, until I have to pee again. I do that 2 or 3 times a night, every night, every day, seven days a week, month after month. And THAT'S, how I find my deals. Scanning the internet in the wee hours of the morning.

Peeing a lot, can be very rewarding.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

Edited by CptCurl (28/09/13 11:21 PM)

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: buckstix]
      #233704 - 07/08/13 07:53 AM


Well, not bad going, three really great pick ups in that lot IMHO.

I have the same problem !

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Buchsemann
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Reged: 12/12/08
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233706 - 07/08/13 08:23 AM

So, not so much a horse-shoe up your tail or "... application and dogged pursuit" but more the drinking of lots of water before you go to bed and leaving the computer on all night. Interesting, I'll have to give that a go; what I have been doing certainly hasn't been working all that well, at least not lately.

Cheers!

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden

Edited by Buchseman (07/08/13 08:24 AM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: Buchsemann]
      #233716 - 07/08/13 07:04 PM

Jesus Buckstix,

You are going to be lighting up your whole house with all those excellent lampstands!

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
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Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: NitroX]
      #233806 - 08/08/13 10:51 PM

Hello,

I've been sitting here waiting for the 303 Belgium double to arrive, and it started me thinking. As far as resale value goes, would it be more valuable as a 303 British, or a 303 Savage.

I've been hoping that it might be a 303 British, but then I started thinking that the 303 Savage would be a lot more rare. I easily found loaded ammo, dies, and brass for the 303 Savage without any problem. And, if you can't find brass, 30-40 Krag brass can be reformed with ease.

Factory data from the 1940's for the 303 Savage has a 190 grain bullet traveling just under 2000 fps. All cartridges of that era were strictly for hunting. Today's loadings use 170 & 180 grain hunting bullets. With the 303 Savage being a true .308 dia. there are literally dozens of jacketed and lead bullets to choose from for hand loading.

Factory data from the 1940's for the 303 British however is much different, with very little hunting ammo available at that time. What little I could find, listed a 215 grain bullet traveled at 1850 - 2050 fps. Not all that superior, "in the day". And although there are many more .312 bullets to choose from today for hand loading, there are far fewer choices than .308 dia. bullets.

So what do you guys think? Should I keep hoping for a .303 British, or, would the 303 Savage be neater?




Edited by CptCurl (28/09/13 11:23 PM)

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: buckstix]
      #233807 - 08/08/13 11:06 PM


IMHO, more valuable as a 303 British.

Rarity doesn't always equate to higher value.

You might find someone who has a fetish over 303 Sav
but to most, at least with 303 British you might be
able to use Factory ammo.

And dies, cases etc are much more readily available.

Just my HO.

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joelblack
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Reged: 05/06/12
Posts: 61
Loc: WI, USA
Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233811 - 09/08/13 12:25 AM

Definitely .303 British. There must be something strange in our Wisconsin water. I have the same disease.

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Nordmann
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Posts: 166
Loc: Denmark
Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: joelblack]
      #233814 - 09/08/13 01:35 AM

I would be hoping that it gets lost in shipping!

--------------------
James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: joelblack]
      #233815 - 09/08/13 01:35 AM

I think the rifle would have more resale value as a Brit. There's something really nice about a double chambered in .303 British. Definitely a classic.

Americans didn't have any tradition of double barreled rifles. Until this thread I had never heard nor even dreamed of a double rifle chambered in .303 Savage. However, I have seen and handled various English double rifles chambered in .30-30, and even a greater number chambered in .32-40.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1145
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: Nordmann]
      #233824 - 09/08/13 04:27 AM

Well hello Nerdmann,

Quote:

"..I would be hoping that it gets lost in shipping!.."

Not a surprising comment from you. Others will surely take note of your contribution to this discussion.




Hello Joel,

Quote:

Definitely .303 British. There must be something strange in our Wisconsin water. I have the same disease.

Well, we'll have to wait and see. And, YES, I believe its something in the water. I live in Winnebago County, near lake Winnebago. The name "Winnebago" is an Indian name, and I think it is sometimes translated as: "Wantum Heap Many Doubles", or something similar.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: Nordmann]
      #233828 - 09/08/13 05:27 AM

Quote:

I would be hoping that it gets lost in shipping!


Are you breathing rarefied air or something ?

How about coming down to sea level and
what 99% of the population uses.

H&H's, Purdey's, Boss's, WR's have a place but
sometimes it is nice to just own and hunt with
a gun that you don't spend 75% of the time out
bush worrying about scratching.



Edited by 500Nitro (09/08/13 05:47 AM)

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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
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Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: buckstix]
      #233829 - 09/08/13 05:33 AM

"However, I must tell you all, about this strange disease. The real symptoms of my disease, come from a "micro-bladder" problem. I drink a lot of water every night before I go to bed. I wake up 2 or 3 times in the night and have to "pee", and I always have a hard time going back to sleep. So, I leave my computer on all night and I scan the internet for a half hour or so, until I get tired. Then I go back to bed, until I have to pee again. I do that 2 or 3 times a night, every night, every day, seven days a week, month after month. And THAT'S, how I find my deals. Scanning the internet in the wee hours of the morning."
________________

Ross Seyfried says something similar, so during his 3:00 a.m. "thinking sessions," he comes up with wonderful solutions to particular gun/rifle problems he is having at the time. Wonderfully, I have recently been experiencing the same thing; funny as it sounds, just like magic, a key word or two pops in my mind during these "thinking sessions," solving gun/rifle issues I have been trying to solve for a very long time. Give it a try---works for me, and a lot less expensive than surfing internet gun sites!

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Nordmann
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Reged: 05/07/13
Posts: 166
Loc: Denmark
Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #233831 - 09/08/13 06:22 AM

500Nitro keep taking the pills, and cool your jets, it was actually a joke.

But now you mention it I don't think you would need to spend 75% of your time worrying about scratching it in the bush, although you would need to spend 95% of your time worrying about if it functioned properly in a critical situation. click, click!

There is a fundamental reason why was cheap. So please stop trying to make it into something it isn't.

And buckstix, if you like collecting boat anchors thats fine by me. I gave my opinion, if you don't like it fine, ignore it. Hope you get your bladder problem sorted so you can get some sleep. Seems sleep deprivation causes stress and bad judgement!

Best Nordmann

--------------------
James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1145
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233834 - 09/08/13 07:11 AM

Hello Nerdmann,
Quote:

"..I gave my opinion, if you don't like it fine, ignore it.."


Yes, I will. Best thing you've said so far.




Hello 500Nitro,

Bravo! Thank you! We think a lot alike.

Well, it didn't get lost in shipping. I've got it in hand.

Its got: beautiful fine engraving, a hinged front trigger, ejectors, bushed firing pins, hidden third-bite, gold inlay "S" safety, mint bores, 100% of its original case color, and 100% of its original deep blue finish. The wood has a few bumps from neighbors in the gun cabinet. It has wonderful balance, good sites, and its "tight" as a bank vault. .............. and ............ "ITS UNFIRED".

And by the way, did I mention that the serial number is "2".

I did some investigating and found that it came from an estate where the heirs said it was never used. They said their Dad inherited it from a brother that passed away unexpectedly in the early 1950's. He was from up in New England - New Hampshire, Vermont, or Maine area, they weren't sure. They said it was NEW when their Dad got it, and he never fired it, just kept it in the gun cabinet, for years. When their Dad passed, their Mom left it in the gun cabinet, for many more years. When Mom passed, it got sold with the other estate items.

Here it is shown (bottom) for size comparison with my 20ga side-lock (top) and my 28ga box-lock. (middle)

The frame size is actually a lot smaller than my 20ga., and a little smaller than my 28ga. Its narrow, light, dainty, and swings like a soft breeze.



I took a lot of random pictures. Take a look below.

I personally would have passed on the carved stock. I think its a Caribou, or a trophy Elk. Not sure. Although its very nicely done, its not something I especially like. I don't believe in carving stocks on hunting rifles. Decorative carving should be reserved for German Schuetzen rifles. ...... however .........,

I'll learn to live with the carving, because someday, I might want to make it into a lamp!


















--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

Edited by CptCurl (28/09/13 11:24 PM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: buckstix]
      #233835 - 09/08/13 07:21 AM

So what the heck caliber is it??????????

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: buckstix]
      #233836 - 09/08/13 07:22 AM

Faaaarrrrrkkkkkk, that is in far better nick than I thought
it was. You got a bargain.

I see it has a bit of a hidden third bite, interesting.


What about the chamber / Caliber ?

Have you tried a 303 case in it ?



Edited by 500Nitro (09/08/13 07:23 AM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: CptCurl]
      #233837 - 09/08/13 07:23 AM

By the way, that disease is rampant in Alleghany County. Wish I could get a cure.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: CptCurl]
      #233838 - 09/08/13 07:27 AM

Nordmann, does a double rifle made by the Birmingham guntrade gain reliability just because it was send by Pople & Sons to London and sold there as a second grade "Holland & Holland"? Or a Liege, Belgium made dr because it was sold in London as a W.J.Jeffery? Granted, the Liege guntrade made lots of cheap guns for the colonial and mail-order market, but they also made numbers of very nice and reliable guns for the upper end of the market. Fabriques d'armes unies de Liege S.A. was a cooperative of many small gunmakers and served both ends of the market. Up to the 1960s they offered their "Centaure" Colt Navy copies, very much sought after now by muzzleloader shooters because of their quality which is even better than Colt's 1860s. IMHO fools buy guns for the "name", knowing men rate guns by their inherent quality. Even the "name" British makers sold common junk, especially during the hard post-WW2 years. Recently I refused an offer to buy an original Rigby .275 bolt action for a mere Euro 500.-. Though it had the posh Rigby engraving it was built postwar on an ex-military 98k action with a clumsy stock, definitely not to the maker's pre-war standards. Well, the Mauser, Oberndorf factory was no more… And I remember a Holland & Holland .375 rifle of the same period. An Enfield P14 action, light alloy magazine box, checkering cut lopsided…
IMHO here we have a classic example of a gun not seen by a lot of fools because it has no "Name" and is advertized chambered for a pipsqueak obsolete cartridge. A rifle made by the same men, only say in .450-400 and inscribed with the Jeffery, London address would certainly have attracted many more bidders.
From the photos I rate this dr well above average boxlock dr quality, be them made in Birmingham, Liege, Suhl or elsewhere. Just look at the scroll-back action body and how it is stocked to the fences. I have never seen such a boxlock before. It takes a very skilled stocker to head up such a stock.

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

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500Nitro
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: kuduae]
      #233839 - 09/08/13 07:39 AM

Nordmann's comments remind me of a WR Boxlock, Extractor in 500/465 I have. Short barreled job, border engraving only,
very little CCH hardening left.

Yet everybody who sees or handles it loves it, numerous
people have said that one gun could be used around the world.

It's been dropped, rained on, scratched but do I worry,
no, not at all.

Does it look pretty ? No
Is it a "best" gun ? No
Is it well made ? Yes
Does it work all the time ? Yes

I would put this 303 gun in the same ball park
but for a "light" double.

I would be proud to own, shoot and hunt with it !!!



Edited by 500Nitro (09/08/13 07:41 AM)

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: CptCurl]
      #233840 - 09/08/13 07:40 AM

Hello Curl,

Quote:

"... So what the heck caliber is it?????????? ..."



Oh, I forgot to mention, the New England brother was an avid "Savage" collector.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: buckstix]
      #233841 - 09/08/13 07:44 AM


So 303 Savage.

Anyway, GREAT pick up, well done !!!

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: buckstix]
      #233842 - 09/08/13 07:49 AM

My dad wasn't much of a hunter, but he could shoot what he aimed at. The rifle he used was a Savage 99 (or ita predecessor) chambered in. 303 Savage.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylS
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Re: Not sure about what to think about this one [Re: CptCurl]
      #233844 - 09/08/13 08:18 AM

190gr. @ 1,960fps, wasn't it?
just a guess

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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