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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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500Nitro
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233501 - 04/08/13 10:28 PM


NitroSteel


CptCurl was typing while I was typing.

The fact that both of us said the same thing,
forget the Coggie for the reasons stated.

He is either mis representing the gun (it has not been
re proofed) or it has been re proofed from a BP gun which
at that weight it will kick the shot out of you and
put you off shooting it.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: CptCurl]
      #233502 - 04/08/13 10:29 PM

To the OP:

You are going to make a heck of a mistake if you buy a .470NE or .500NE for your first double rifle.

Only if you are used to shooting some real stompers in your bolt guns will you want to tackle such a large caliber.

If you intend to buy a double rifle for shooting you should consider a medium bore rifle. An excellent choice would be a 9.3x74R in a nice double. It's plenty for any North American game and won't beat you up like the calibers you are interested in.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233503 - 04/08/13 10:39 PM

Quote:


NitroX

I don't think Searcy's go back any more than any other makes
from what we see on this forum and others.

I think people would say.



Well not what a couple of previous owners have said. As I said "previous". One was sent back three times.

If I buy a German, French or English rifle, the ability to send it back for repairs easily isn't even a thought. Other than the fact anyone should be offering good follow up service if needed as with any quality supplier.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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500Nitro
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: NitroX]
      #233504 - 04/08/13 10:41 PM


John

OK, thanks


NitroSteel.

Agree with what CptCurl says.

Go a medium bore, you will enjoy it a lot more.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: CptCurl]
      #233505 - 04/08/13 10:44 PM

Quote:

To the OP:

You are going to make a heck of a mistake if you buy a .470NE or .500NE for your first double rifle.

Only if you are used to shooting some real stompers in your bolt guns will you want to tackle such a large caliber.

If you intend to buy a double rifle for shooting you should consider a medium bore rifle. An excellent choice would be a 9.3x74R in a nice double. It's plenty for any North American game and won't beat you up like the calibers you are interested in.

Curl



I think most first time double rifle buyers do buy a stopper calibre DR. .470's are probably the most popular.

The choice needs to be matched to the desired use. A lot of buyers buy them in anticipation of an African trip and if buffalo and the like are the menu it is very appropriate.

If hunting North America, a .375 Flanged Magnum, a .400 or the 9.3x74R are all excellent medium calibre choices.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NitroSteel
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: NitroX]
      #233506 - 04/08/13 10:45 PM

Point taken on the Cogswell. Good call.

Point taken on the 470 and 500, but I am used to shooting "stompers" in bolt guns and plan to stick to the original plan on big african calibers. Though it is only really justified - because that's what I want. Surely we have all been there...

Thank you,

Nitrosteel

--------------------
"Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid."

John Wayne



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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233507 - 04/08/13 10:48 PM

Barrels 28" ?? Weight completely wrong ??? nitrosteel, hold off, with 20k USD to spend you can find something nice, I do the odd bit of research for Holts in the UK,(http://www.holtsauctioneers.com/) I think you will find something a lot better for the money, a 9.25lb .500 will kick the living sh** out of you, rgds, Mike

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500Nitro
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #233509 - 04/08/13 10:55 PM

NitroSteel

At least try to look at this as an option

Chapuis 470 for $11,000 and from someone who knows what DR's are and would probably let you shoot it beforehand.


http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx...&GunID=2419



Still looking for others.

Edited by 500Nitro (04/08/13 10:56 PM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #233510 - 04/08/13 10:56 PM

For a first double in .470 or .500NE you should strongly consider a Merkel from the used market. They are excellent rifles and great value for the money. You should find one for less than $10k and quite possibly less than $8k.

I have a Merkel .500NE, which by number is the third they produced in that caliber. Drive up to Virginia and you can shoot it.

Move up the ladder with your subsequent double rifles. The money you will save on the Merkel is a good start for your second double.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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500Nitro
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: CptCurl]
      #233511 - 04/08/13 10:59 PM


Here is a Heym on the same web site

http://www.champlinarms.com/Default.aspx...&GunID=2424


Although worth contacting the guy who sells Heyms in the US
as he has trade ins all the time as well as new Heyms.

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500Nitro
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233512 - 04/08/13 11:03 PM

The guy who sells Heym in the US had this for sale a while ago.

VC / Verney-Carron (Demas Artisan) AZUR XA 500 NE

A gently used "as new" Verney Caron 500 NE with only a minor handling mark or two on the wood.
Automatic Ejectors, fixed (non-articulated) front trigger. File-cut top rib with one standing, and two folding leaves.
23.5" Mono-Block barrels, with barrel-mounted front swivel (no swivel on buttstock) and Reckagel flip-over night sight.
Pancake cheekpiece and palm swell grip. Anson push-button forend release forend.
14 & 7/8" LOP | 10 pounds, 4 ounces
$13,500.00
$12,500.00 + Shipping and Insurance.


Not a bad gun for the price !!!


I think it is still for sale !



Edited by 500Nitro (04/08/13 11:04 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233517 - 05/08/13 12:32 AM

Quote:

The guy who sells Heym in the US had this for sale a while ago.

VC / Verney-Carron (Demas Artisan) AZUR XA 500 NE

A gently used "as new" Verney Caron 500 NE with only a minor handling mark or two on the wood.
Automatic Ejectors, fixed (non-articulated) front trigger. File-cut top rib with one standing, and two folding leaves.
23.5" Mono-Block barrels, with barrel-mounted front swivel (no swivel on buttstock) and Reckagel flip-over night sight.
Pancake cheekpiece and palm swell grip. Anson push-button forend release forend.
14 & 7/8" LOP | 10 pounds, 4 ounces
$13,500.00
$12,500.00 + Shipping and Insurance.


Not a bad gun for the price !!!


I think it is still for sale !





Looks like a good deal from Chris Sells.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233518 - 05/08/13 12:46 AM

Quote:

The guy who sells Heym in the US had this for sale a while ago.

VC / Verney-Carron (Demas Artisan) AZUR XA 500 NE

A gently used "as new" Verney Caron 500 NE with only a minor handling mark or two on the wood.
Automatic Ejectors, fixed (non-articulated) front trigger. File-cut top rib with one standing, and two folding leaves.
23.5" Mono-Block barrels, with barrel-mounted front swivel (no swivel on buttstock) and Reckagel flip-over night sight.
Pancake cheekpiece and palm swell grip. Anson push-button forend release forend.
14 & 7/8" LOP | 10 pounds, 4 ounces
$13,500.00
$12,500.00 + Shipping and Insurance.


Not a bad gun for the price !!!


I think it is still for sale !





I'm sure other people have had different results, but I can tell you that I fired a VC .500NE and found it to be the hardest kicking rifle I have ever experienced. The stock obviously didn't fit me and gave me a good belt to the face as well as the shoulder. It made my Merkel .500NE feel like a love tap. The owner of that rifle agreed, and he traded off the rifle not long after that shooting session.

The rifle advertised is not the same one I shot, so stock dimensions may be different. My comments may be entirely off-base as to this rifle.

I guess my point is, the larger the caliber, the more important is proper fit so the recoil can be handled. I didn't measure the dimensions and weight of the VC I shot. I also didn't pick it up to shoot it again! Two rounds were enough to satisfy me with that particular rifle. This statement comes from a guy (me) who has shot many hundreds of rounds through a Merkel .500NE.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: CptCurl]
      #233522 - 05/08/13 01:12 AM

Buying a second hand V-C one gets what one is buying. If getting the L'atelier" model it is bespoke and made to measure.

I have a measurement card in my drawer from V-C, just in case.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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pondoro62
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: NitroX]
      #233524 - 05/08/13 01:42 AM

CptCurl has some very valid points here, fit is very important with doubles, as with all heavy rifles....if it does not fit you will never shoot it right..

I restocked my Brno 602 (.375H&H) recently and jeez what a difference it made....when I throw it to the shoulder the crosshairs are there immediatley....worked splendidly in Namibia in june..

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Nordmann
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233525 - 05/08/13 02:18 AM

"I will do my best to shoot lots of North American big game with it, but am not sure I will ever end up in Africa. Something about dropping huge cartridges in the chamber and closing the vault is just awesome"

A .470 or .500 N might be too big for the majority of North American big game.

Perhaps you may want to consider something smaller, for example a .375 H&H magnum as an all rounder. You can shoot every animal on earth with a .375 without ever being over- and only rarely undergunned.

--------------------
James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.

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500Nitro
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: Nordmann]
      #233532 - 05/08/13 03:10 AM


That Chapuis on Chamlins website.

When I first posted that link I actually put a comment
"if the stock fits you" because I know damn well it wouldn't fit me.


So fully agree with posters above, fit is very important.

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Huvius
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233545 - 05/08/13 06:13 AM

Osprey has a nice honest William Evans 450/400 at $20K.
If you can stretch your budget a bit, you may be surprised at your options.
The biggest double I have ever shot myself is a 470 and the recoil was robust but not unmanageable. About on par with my 425 Westley but it does have a steel butt.
You may want to consider a 450/400 or as Nordmann suggests, a .375 simply because with a 470 or 500 you will be overgunned for anything but big brown bears in NA, and it is a big step up in the recoil department. Remember, if the recoil is objectionable, you may have a hard time developing a lighter load which regulates satisfactorily.
It would be a shame to get into a first double and not fully enjoy the experience. I bet a medium double would be perfect for the hunting you plan for and there is always the option of moving up to the bigger rifle if you find doubles to your liking...and lets face it, who doesn't want another double rifle?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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500Nitro
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: Huvius]
      #233546 - 05/08/13 06:22 AM


"If you can stretch your budget a bit, you may be surprised at your options."


After having a look around, I don't think he needs to stretch his budget, I think he could well come under $20k.

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NitroSteel
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233549 - 05/08/13 06:45 AM

I'm not at all opposed to a 450/400. I personally love the looks of the William Evans that Huvius mentioned. It is a bit out of budget, but perhaps do-able. I didn't realize that a nice/original/old rifle could be had for that price. Is the price on that rifle less than what I am used seeing due to the slightly less popular caliber?

Had not looked at Osprey at all either - never heard of them.

Thank you,

Nitrosteel

--------------------
"Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid."

John Wayne



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500Nitro
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: NitroSteel]
      #233550 - 05/08/13 06:56 AM


Nitro

"I'm not at all opposed to a 450/400. I personally love the looks of the William Evans that Huvius mentioned. It is a bit out of budget, but perhaps do-able."


I thought you had a budget of $20k ?

That gun is just under $20k ASKING price so within your budget
or did I miss something ?


And that's before you get any discount.

BTW, I think that is a nie classic gun but looks like an Extractor, not an ejector which I think you said you want.

The calibre is very popular.

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500Nitro
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233555 - 05/08/13 09:31 AM


This must be one of the quickest threads on NE.

It took off like a rocket with everyone chiming in
and got to 2 pages in short order !!!

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Nordmann
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: 500Nitro]
      #233556 - 05/08/13 10:17 AM

Yeah.. thread took off like a rocket... everyone is trying hard to spend the guys money!

Take your time Nitrosteel...& Consider:

Any rifle more powerful than a .375 H&H Magnum is getting into the overkill area for North American dangerous game, and even for the great bears. No hunter pursuing dangerous game (especially a self proclaimed novice like you) should saddle himself with a rifle so much more powerful than required that it induces flinching or reduces the chances of accurate bullet placement.

Bullet placement is the key to killing power and a .375 H&H magnum in a vital spot will drop the biggest Kodiak brown bear in Alaska.

You say that there is something about dropping huge cartridges in the chamber and closing the vault is just awesome, and I can relate somewhat to that, but..dropping a 450/400 slug into the gut of a bear because of a flinch is an invitation to disaster. A gut shot bear is an angry bear. Every hunter owes it to himself, the game animal, and innocent bystanders to use a rifle in a caliber that he can consistently shoot accurately.

You say that the rifle you buy "will get fondled and sit in my gun safe 99% of the time".

For that reason buy an original gun with nice engraving, lots of case color and blue, attractive wood, a contemporary look and a nice original case...something you can really enjoy looking at and fondling, and something you can sell down the road because the chances are you will want to trade up to a sidelock one day.

You seem to have given this matter some serious thought, so my advice is spend the extra time to go shoot a few different big bore rifles at the range, find a caliber which you consider comfortable to shoot and then buy the best conditioned rifle in that caliber you can afford.


As Thomas Jefferson once wrote to George Washington: “One loves to possess arms.”

--------------------
James Etherington-Thorpe - a man's reputation can be known by his words. Read Mr Thorpe's comments and judge his character by his own words and attitudes.

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NitroSteel
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: Nordmann]
      #233557 - 05/08/13 10:57 AM

My "budget" was 18k, but $20k is do-able.

I've spent an aweful lot of time shooting a 375 h&h. One customized pre-64 win model 70 that just fits perfectly, recoil is really not bad and shoots like a dream. The other is a Ruger #1 right off the shelf. Oh Lordy what a difference. That thing makes me think a little bit. Also shoot a model 70 338 win mag a good bit. One of my "kings of recoil" is a 6 pound Kimber 325 wsm (mountain rifle). It is borderline aweful - a really fast hard kick that puts the scope in your face, but I shoot it very well - it takes concentration, but I have shot 4 inch groups at 400 yards with it and 1.5" groups at 200. This thing uses about 65 grains of reloader 17. Thats alot of powder in a little bitty gun.

What I'm saying is - I have some medium sized magnum rifles and can shoot them at least decently. I want a big one. Needed? Absolutely not. I'll never argue that... I doubt I can be talked out of it and do realize yall are trying to talk some sense into me. I'll sign a waiver if ya'll will keep giving me advice - hehehe. I really appreciate all of the input. I am learning all the time. I do need to catch up with some folks and try a few guns before I buy.

Oh yeah, and I have seen an angry bear in Canada that was shot WELL... I'll never forget that. Can't imagine how a poorly shot bear could act.

I don't think I've ever posted anywhere that gave me this much input so quickly. I REALLY appreciate it. Thank ya'll for talking me out of this particular Italian gun and giving me the heads up on the Cogswell.

Nitrosteel

--------------------
"Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid."

John Wayne



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NitroSteel
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Re: Zanardini Oxford 470 N.E. double? [Re: NitroSteel]
      #233558 - 05/08/13 11:02 AM

Is it stupid to want ejectors? I guess this a topic all of it's own, but I pretty much decided that years ago. I could probably be swayed on this with a bit of good argument.

Thanks again.

Nitrosteel

--------------------
"Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid."

John Wayne



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