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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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Alan McKenzie
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Reged: 08/07/13
Posts: 12
Loc: WA,Aust
Cast at the comb..
      #232233 - 09/07/13 02:40 AM

Can someone please explain to me what cast at the comb means on double rifles and guns...There is a difference of opinion between some gun makers :-1/4 on rifles and 3/8 on the double guns...
Are these measurements normal or over the top??????
Opinions and all comments welcomed....

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27681
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Cast at the comb.. [Re: Alan McKenzie]
      #232235 - 09/07/13 02:56 AM

Cast-off is usually measured at the butt. Yes, the comb is moved over, so the face better lines up with the sights, by moving the centreline of the butt to the right for cast-off and to the left for cast-on, as I understand the term.

How much is required, depends on the individual the stock is initially made for as well as the thickness of the comb, weight of facial bones, fat, etc - not by any 'given' set of hard and fast rules.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Alan McKenzie
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Reged: 08/07/13
Posts: 12
Loc: WA,Aust
Re: Cast at the comb.. [Re: DarylS]
      #232236 - 09/07/13 02:59 AM

Thanks Daryl,
Regards,
Alan McKenzie

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27681
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Cast at the comb.. [Re: Alan McKenzie]
      #232238 - 09/07/13 03:56 AM

Pleasure, Alan.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: Cast at the comb.. [Re: Alan McKenzie]
      #232240 - 09/07/13 04:25 AM

'Cast-off is usually measured at the butt.'
That is what I used to think too, but I was wrong. I have been in touch with a man from England, who trained with Holland and Holland; later worked as stockmaker for major English gunmakers, who told me that cast off/on is actually measured about one third of the way between the comb and the heel of butt. Cast off is to the right of center, and cast on (for lefties) is to the left of center, of course. Cast off/on measurement varies, in accordance with variations in shooter's build, face form, etc. but is generally, on average, around 3/8" or less, usually less, at this point, one third distance between comb and heel.

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450_EXPRESS
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Reged: 04/01/09
Posts: 371
Loc: S.C.Montana
Re: Cast at the comb.. [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #232247 - 09/07/13 06:59 AM

I don't know, in school (Trinidad St) and in the trade since, we were taught and have used, measure it from the butt. I think if you're having a stock by Holland or such, it's good to know, but the way I see it's like spelling color or prononcing aluminum, they got their way we got ours.
Plus personally I think the end of the butt (heel) can be a more precise point to measure from rather than about a third of the way down. Just dosen't seem quite proper old boy. (should probably put a smiley face or such there)

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Alan McKenzie
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Reged: 08/07/13
Posts: 12
Loc: WA,Aust
Re: Cast at the comb.. [Re: 450_EXPRESS]
      #232280 - 10/07/13 02:02 AM

The reason I asked the question is because 2 different gun makers had different opinions about cast at comb for the same person.
Different makers,maybe different method of measuring ????

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27681
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Cast at the comb.. [Re: Alan McKenzie]
      #232293 - 10/07/13 10:44 AM

Could be, Alan - I don't know, sorry.

My brother used to build ML rifles with cast off as the customer desired for a good fit. Much depends on the stock design, ie: thickness of the comb - Steve Zihn will also be doing this.

My English designed 14 bore has a straight stock, no cast at all and it points like a find shotgun, sights aligning perfectly as the stock comes into the shoulder. You do not have to consciously align the sights, they already are.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: Cast at the comb.. [Re: Alan McKenzie]
      #232357 - 11/07/13 10:24 PM

There are three different places where cast off/cast on is measured to insure you get the right fit. There is cast at the heal, or top of the butt. There is cast at the comb which is measured at the bump or the highest point on top of the forward part of the buttstock. And then there is cast at the face which is the most important one. It may be that in general it is believed to be about one third of the way back from the point of the comb, but a good stockmaker will move that point to corrispond to the individual's face placement on the stock by measuring and observing the owners gun mounting.

Toe In/Out is another important measurement and it tells the stockmaker how to measure for the cant of the toe portion of the stock. This will also vary according to the person's physique and is most important on large busted women, they need more toe out to protect themselves from being gouged every time they shoot. Toe measuring also takes into consideration the general body shape of the shooter including the size and placement of the shoulders. A body builder with large Pecs might need more toe out than a little skinny guy with sunken shoulders.

A good book to read for those who are truely intersted in this subject is "Gunfitting" "The Quest for Perfection for Shotguns and Rifles" By Michael Yardley. It expalins all these things in plain terms better than I can and is well worth the price for gunmakers and stock fitters.
Bob

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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: Cast at the comb.. [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #232682 - 19/07/13 05:40 AM

Birdhunter50,
I agree 100% with everything you said about this issue. What I mentioned above, I believe, the gunmaker, when he told me this, was thinking cast at the face, as he measures it there--it is obviously the most important measuring point for cast.

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