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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1652
Loc: Finland

Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo
#232003 - 03/07/13 12:03 AM

Here in Finland is for sale Francotte-made Martini-Henry rifle with mystery caliber. The seller told that the only markings in barrel are "Frangonette B. 7 m/m L.B". He told that the cartridge is rimfire type and case lenght is 30 mm. He said also that Swiss alp troopers has used this rifle in the beginning of 20. century. Does anybody have any idea of the caliber ?

Some pictures attached:

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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gungadoug
.333 member

Reged: 13/08/12
Posts: 285
Loc: NM

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: Igorrock]
#232004 - 03/07/13 12:19 AM

I had one identical to that in 297-250 Rook. Centerfire. It should be obvious whether it's rim- or centerfire.
Doug

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9099
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: Igorrock]
#232015 - 03/07/13 04:58 AM

this is the 7mm rimfire extra long, a 7mm Flobert on steroid

very rare blackpowder round and ammo can be made with 17mm winchester super magnum brass available now. 7mm H&N roundballs and 6,8mm nail gun blanks will also work

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1652
Loc: Finland

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: lancaster]
#232016 - 03/07/13 05:44 AM

Thanks, the seller will later send me some fotos of that ammo. This caliber would be very nice for varminting for example Nyctereutes procyonoides which is very common here in nowadays.

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9099
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: Igorrock]
#232076 - 04/07/13 04:45 AM

reloading rimfire ammo is to seperate the wheat from the chaff and real fun ,btw.
I have some ideas how to do it but the question is how big the firing pin is. there is not realy a CF basic case because the 7mm RF is only close to the 25 ACP maybe the 22 hornet can be reworked. if so you can use a 22 lr case as the primer but you need a bullet mould for a heeled 7 mm bullet anyway!
I load 9 mm Flobert roundball ammo using 32 S&W long and 6mm flobert blanks as the primer. the blank is siting in the center of the case but the firing pin hit it.

I remember a beautiful suhl made break action rifle for the 35 Sharps rimfire, something like a 9mm Flobert Long rifle. I was able to make ammo with 9mm Flobert shotgun cartridges but dont get the rifle in the end.

a very nice miniature martini

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (04/07/13 04:48 AM)

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93x64mm
.416 member

Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4213
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: lancaster]
#232079 - 04/07/13 06:12 AM

Lancaster, can you go thru this "process" you do to make these obsolete rimfire rounds?
Sounds an interesting concept!
I suppose if the barrel was a true 7mm (.284") could you turn it into a little 7x33 Sako? The firing pin would have to be modified as well, then again its up to the eventual owner as to what they want to do with it!
Interesting calibre 7mm Rimfire!

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1652
Loc: Finland

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: 93x64mm]
#232092 - 04/07/13 12:29 PM

Quote:

I suppose if the barrel was a true 7mm (.284") could you turn it into a little 7x33 Sako?

Very interesting idea but depends the strenght of that blackpowder action....

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9099
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: 93x64mm]
#232096 - 04/07/13 01:22 PM

I will show it after holidays

in my eyes its not a good idea to rechamber an old rifle because the ammo is hard to get

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1652
Loc: Finland

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: lancaster]
#232189 - 07/07/13 04:55 PM

Yesterday seller sent me two pictures of ammo. The structure of case looks interesting:

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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DoubleD
.400 member

Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2438
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: Igorrock]
#232193 - 07/07/13 07:42 PM

Just as a point of clarification this a Francotte Martini and not a Martini-Henry.

a very nice Francotte Martini that I wish were mine.

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DD, Ret.

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1652
Loc: Finland

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: DoubleD]
#232198 - 07/07/13 11:54 PM

Quote:

Just as a point of clarification this a Francotte Martini and not a Martini-Henry.

Could you explain what are differences between those two actions ?

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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HistoricBore
.300 member

Reged: 28/09/11
Posts: 226
Loc: United Kingdom

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: Igorrock]
#232211 - 08/07/13 07:17 AM

It is more a question of where they were made. Martini-Henry rifles and their sporting cousins were made in Birmingham, England. The Henry part refers to the style of rifling chosen to reduce the black powder, and which later proved not to be good for nitro powders.
Francotte were a Belgian company who also made different sizes of Martini actions as well as complete rifles. They developed the variant where the complete action is mounted on a block that drops out at the twist of a lever, usually combined with a hole at the rear of the action which allows the rifle to be cleaned from the breech end.

BSA later adopted this feature for their .22 rifles.

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1652
Loc: Finland

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: HistoricBore]
#232219 - 08/07/13 01:25 PM

Thanks !

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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93x64mm
.416 member

Reged: 07/12/11
Posts: 4213
Loc: Nth QLD Australia

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: Igorrock]
#232245 - 09/07/13 06:14 AM

Gents,
what would this little action have be subject to as far as "proof" load?

Sorry I am not knowledgeable on the Martini's (there were 4 types right?)at all, so please excuse my ignorance here!

Being 6.8mm this brings the grove diameter to 0.268" (or there abouts), so even if you could prove that this rifle could shoot modern ammo - what would you rebarrel a rifle like this to if you could do so???
Some Martini cadets have been rebarreled to 22 Hornet, 218Bee, .25/20 etc - is this the same "basic" action or something completely different?

The little cadet make good "Rook & Rabbit" rifles in .25/20, .32/20 etc. The .310 cadet I've heard nothing but trouble about, a great little round.....if you can get it going!
93x64mm

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27093
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: 93x64mm]
#232260 - 09/07/13 02:16 PM

I have heard of Cadet actions, both .22 Rimfire and .310 Cadet being rebarreled & chambered to everything from .22 mags. .22LR's to .17HMR's and CF's from .17AH, .17Ack. Bee, .22KHornet, .218Bee to rimless cases like .221 fireball, .17 MKIV, .222, .223 and .22(4?)X50mm, an done in .30/30 Ackley Improved Winchester. A spring loaded rimless extractor is used for rimless cases.

I have just finished a .22 Ackley Hornet on a BSA Cadet action.

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39985
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: Martini-Henry Francotte Take Down with mystery ammo [Re: DarylS]
#297352 - 19/03/17 04:48 PM

Yes I have a Martini-Cadet in .222 Rimmed.

Also a Martini-Cadet (I assume it is, maybe a Francotte?) in .297/250 or .297/230.

Need to work out which one it is. I think the latter if the calibre engraving can only just be read with a lot of difficulty. Slugging it I assume might tell the difference.

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John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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