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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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savage458
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Reged: 16/04/12
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Loc: Indiana, USA
Siamese Mauser
      #231582 - 24/06/13 11:26 PM

Anyone, suggest anything about Rimmed cartridges for Siamese Mauser ?
I have original action and wish to build Nitro Express rifle. Read something about it on one of the forums, and i am hopping that somebody here can give me some tips on this project. Any suggestion is welcome, please feel free to talk about it. I will be grateful, and answer any Q's you have for me. Is i can help with machining or Micro welding tips, just ask. Thanks to all !

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DarylS
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: savage458]
      #231585 - 25/06/13 12:14 AM

The standard rimmed round for Siamese Mausers is the .45/70. I put one together for a friend back in the 70's.

It gave the same ballistics with identical loads as my .458 2" M98 VZ24 Mauser.

2,300fps with 350gr., 2,160fps with 400's and 2,060fps with 500's.

Seems to me, with the 500's, it used the whole magazine - no room for a longer case and nothing of value gained by using a longer case with shorter bullets.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Igorrock
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: savage458]
      #231588 - 25/06/13 12:32 AM

Siamese Mauserīs action is quite short so people mostly use to convert it for .45-70 or 7,62x54R. If you want something between these calibers I suppose finnish caliber 9,3x53R. Itīs ballistics twin with 9,3x57 Mauser.
But if you prefer domestic caliber you allways could use .33 Winchester or .35 Rem.

9,3x53R


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Edited by Igorrock (25/06/13 12:34 AM)

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Oldbrit
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: Igorrock]
      #231590 - 25/06/13 02:27 AM

Would the 405 Winchester fit?

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Igorrock
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: Oldbrit]
      #231595 - 25/06/13 03:40 AM

Itīs too long:



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savage458
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: DarylS]
      #231596 - 25/06/13 03:50 AM

Daryl S


Very interesting, i also built 45-70 on Siamese, but had problem with feeding, recoil would move top cartridge in Mag. behind rim of one under it, and jam it. I shot biggest Whitetail with that gun, but it caused same problem all the time. Why do you think that longer NE cartridge wont give me more. I was thinking of MIcro-welding small ext. back of Mag box to gain room in it. What do you think ?

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savage458
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: Igorrock]
      #231599 - 25/06/13 05:45 AM

igorrock

405 win. is one of my favorite cartridges. I shoot Ruger #1 in 405, and its excited me so much that i started post in Building Double rifles on shotgun actions. I have AYA 20 gauge 3" Magnum, older one, and am hoping to find out if its safe to do conversion ? If somebody already used AYA 20 gauge for this type of build, i need to talk to him ? Thanks for your input. Stay in touch.

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DarylS
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: savage458]
      #231602 - 25/06/13 06:21 AM

Perhaps a 2.4" case would get a light bullet like the 300gr. Nosler Partition moving better, within the confines of the magazine. The 2.1" case can get them moving about 2,450fps. Is more needed?

As far as I know, the one I worked on fed just fine with all bullet weights, even with the 500gr. loads. Roy didn't like to shoot those, anyway, preferring the 400gr. Barnes Spitzers with .049 copper jackets (no longer available form Barnes).

RP brass in .45/70 has a slightly rounded back edge on the brass, whereas WW and Starline brass has a sharper, more perfectly square edge. Perhaps that rounded back edge of RP brass helped the problem? Otherwise I have no solution - other than perhaps a stronger magazine spring.

We both used Speer 230gr. swaged .452" Auto pistol bullets, loaded with 15gr. of AL8 for head shooting grouse. They'd actually shoot into 3" at 100 yards and were moving along about 1,350fps - Oehler M12 chronograph 1978. I used 'pinch' of KAPOC (from a life jacket) as a filler as I didn't know any better - back then - who did? Maybe it doesn't matter in that short case.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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savage458
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: DarylS]
      #231604 - 25/06/13 07:36 AM

Daryl S

Thanks for input. I was thinking of some NE case that would drive 350-400 grainers faster, with more energy for Grizz hunts in brush country. Moose hunting in Ontario Canada also, brush country, that is my reason for NE. Making cartridge box longer will be no problem.I will measure maximum possible bolt travel, and figure it all out. All suggestions are welcome. Have a nice day

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DarylS
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: savage458]
      #231610 - 25/06/13 09:24 AM

The Sharps cases and chambering reamers might be more easily obtained? The larger rim diameter of the Express brass might be found to be attractive as well.

A .45 3 1/4", for instance, can be 'held back for any length between that and the 2.4". The shortest case might need a polishing out of the head area - or not, depending on the diameter of the reamer at the .85" distance from the headstamp as that would be the head 'region' for the 2.4".

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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savage458
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: DarylS]
      #231648 - 25/06/13 11:36 PM

to all of you

Guy's thanks for your help in researching possible Calibers for Siamese Mauser, i found out that there is no gain in doing extra work on this action, just to have Nitro Express stamp on the barrel. 45-70 is still best cartridge for this action. So i will let somebody else play with it, and go on to make my own conversion Shotgun-Double rifle in Nitro Express caliber. Reamers came couple of days ago, Dave Mason did wonderful job, just like "Old Max" did. Enjoy your hunting and shooting.My gratitude

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Ash
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: savage458]
      #231681 - 26/06/13 06:39 PM

Sorry to jump off, but what's the largest rim diameter that can fit a Siamese Mauser, and max magazine length? Can a .50-110 fit, or .348 Winchester?

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savage458
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: Ash]
      #231685 - 26/06/13 09:59 PM

ash

45-70 rim fits good and 405Win. also, but 405 is bit longer and would need mag. work to make it longer. Military trigger has to be replaced (or altered)to make more room for longer Magazine. My Siamese action was chambered for French 8mm, rimmed Label cartridge. Hope this helps you.

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zimhunter
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: savage458]
      #231716 - 27/06/13 12:09 PM

My Siamese is in 30/40 and i am quite pleased with it. Whoever built it did a spectacular job. It is Mannlicher stocked in a very plain piece of English walnut. You can see the graft mark on the buttstock. Irons are Remington takeoffs. Barrel was a mischambered M14 barrel that still has step in it. Reciever has been beautifully ground. Trigger is a Timney and an old FN type safety is installed. Function and accuracy are near perfection.

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savage458
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: zimhunter]
      #231744 - 27/06/13 10:46 PM

zimhunter

I am happy to see that somebody has Siamese that works as intended. But why 30-40 ? 8Lebel original caliber is about same, isn't it ? I was trying to find big bore NE cartridge to make for myself. But its not wise to do all the work in converting Magazine and trigger on this action. 500 Jeffery would work but only as a single shot or possibly + one in mag. Any suggestions ?

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wjw
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: savage458]
      #231790 - 28/06/13 02:54 PM

Have you considered a .375 x 2 1/2 Nitro Express

Bill

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savage458
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: wjw]
      #231811 - 28/06/13 11:43 PM

wjw

Yes i did, but i own 375 H&H magnum Chapuis DR, and see no need for bolt action rifle in similar caliber. I was intending to go as BIG caliber, as possible with this project, but decided to spend my time on DR Shotgun-converting project, this will be BAYARD Belgian hammer gun converted to 45 Long Colt, and the reason is safety. Also. its legal deer hunting caliber here in Indiana.

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DarylS
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: savage458]
      #231813 - 28/06/13 11:54 PM

savage458 - Have you considered a Triple 4? Yeah - I know the case is a littler short, but it should work perfectly. With a fast twist .429" or .430" barrel, say 18" twist, it will be VERY accurate with 340gr. bullets at about 2,300fps - maybe more if a suitable powder can be found. As well, it should do about 2,400fps with 300's and 320's.
Just a thought.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Grenadier
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: DarylS]
      #231818 - 29/06/13 12:15 AM

savage458 - sent you a PM

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savage458
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: Grenadier]
      #231827 - 29/06/13 02:16 AM

Granadier

Grenadier and Daryl S. i thought this very carefully and decided to go the other way. Siamese will be passed on to somebody that wishes to build something on it. I have another project started, Winchester 1914, was 30-06, now has .510 bore barrel installed. I am searching for caliber to chamber it in ? Then will mill bolt face to that size. Action is done, Mag is pot-belly Nitro Express type. It has to be factory type cartridge, so brass will be easy to find. I have friend that custom-loads all of my ammo. Any suggestions ?

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Grenadier
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: savage458]
      #231850 - 29/06/13 11:50 AM

Quote:

.510 bore barrel installed. Action is done, Mag is pot-belly Nitro Express type. It has to be factory type cartridge, so brass will be easy to find. I have friend that custom-loads all of my ammo. Any suggestions ?

.500 Jeffery and a gunsmith with lot of elbow grease.

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savage458
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: Grenadier]
      #231851 - 29/06/13 12:07 PM

Grenadier

OK, got you, but where do i buy best elbow grease ?

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DarylS
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: savage458]
      #231857 - 29/06/13 03:23 PM

I saw a P14 or P17 conversion to the .500Jaffery - in a digest - might have been a "Rifle magazine" article or maybe a Gun Digest.

I remember something about converting the magazine to single stack with Delron sleeves and a custom follower to hold the top round in the middle of the mag. no pressure to the sides.

Doesn't A-Square make these in .505 Gibbs?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Grenadier
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: savage458]
      #231861 - 29/06/13 04:45 PM

The 505 Gibbs is a little longer overall and a bit fatter at the base. Either cartridge really belongs in a true magnum action instead of the 1917/P14.

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savage458
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Re: Siamese Mauser [Re: Grenadier]
      #231869 - 29/06/13 11:05 PM

Daryl S Grenadier

i am also thinking of Jeffery, very nice 50 cal. cartridge. I have several P-14 & 1917 actions from good old days, in 70s... when you could buy em for low price and choose the best ones.I made one p-14 with a Square bridge (back only) in 300 Wby. Damn. that one was tack driver at 200 yrds one rugged hole. Its still in Alaska, friend had it for his yearly hunt's and didn't wanna send it back, LOL ! I am working on many project's in Btween my regular Custom Knife Orders. Knives are my main thing. Guns are just another fun project's. Never did DR build, so now is the time to do it. Ellis helped me great deal with sound advice, so now i got all my tooling made and will start 45 Long Colt DR conversion soon. As you see, i ask lots of Q's and will share ideas with all of you, just ask.

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