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Ruger_450
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Reged: 10/03/13
Posts: 163
Loc: WY & FL
Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem
      #226862 - 12/03/13 08:07 AM

Hi, Just found this site and it looks really nice.

I have a 1976 Ruger No. 1 that was built as a 458 Winchester. SSK converted it to 450 Nitro #2 3&1/2".

I bought the rifle from a man who bought a large collection of Ruger big bores. He had never fired it. Along with the rifle came 50 Jamison cases, a new set of C&H dies and 30 odd Barnes originals in 600 gr.

Only having a 25 yard indoor range here where we winter, I made up some "gallery loads" with a Lg pistol primer 10 gr of TrailBoss, BP filler, a TC bore butter wad and a .457 roundball rolled in Lee Alox.

Put a Unertl Hawk from my collection on it and took it to the range and shot 20, off hand, at 2" squares @25 yards. Never missed and there was no fouling or leading. I'm guessing it's about like a 44 cap and ball revolver in power.

Every shell I dropped in fired without a hitch and every one went "pling" out the breech when the lever was dropped.

Now the issue. After shooting it, I dropped a fired empty in it and closed the breech. When I dropped the lever the case stayed in although the ejector activated. After some messing about, I found that the ejector was right next to but not under the rim if you just closed the rifle. If you dry or live fired it, the ejector was jarred enough to slip behind the rim and "pling" out they came.

The ejector is probably the 458 one with the hook modified to fit the 450. I also noted both the front and back of the ejector arm showed signs of stoning. As the ejector is pushed into place by the roller on the breechblock, I suspect the arm's front to back dimension is a skosh small and/or the case dimensions may vary from what SSK used when they converted it.

I bought two new 416 Rigby ejectors as they were the largest I could find for sale. I installed one and it works just fine when the rifle is empty. It will not go around that huge rim if a cartridge is in the chamber. Its front side of the hook is quite flat and I suspect it need some beveling to allow it to go around the case. (It will go if you ease the breech up while pushing the ejector to the left with a very thin punch)

Before I start messing about with this, I wonder if any of you have been down the same road and could offer some advice ?
While the ejectors are inexpensive, they are hard to find as Ruger won't sell you anything direct.

Yes I am a sucker for all No.1s with exceptional wood. Pretty lady is she not ?







Edited by CptCurl (20/03/13 10:59 PM)

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: Ruger_450]
      #226863 - 12/03/13 08:13 AM

Have you talked to SSK about this?

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: AkMike]
      #226864 - 12/03/13 08:20 AM

Firstly welcome to the sight. Enjoy the photos and useful info.
2nd, that stock has beautiful wood in it and yes, she is a pretty lady.
3rd, +1 talk to SSK.

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Ruger_450
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Reged: 10/03/13
Posts: 163
Loc: WY & FL
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: tophet1]
      #226879 - 12/03/13 12:32 PM

Yes I have spoken with SSK and they will fix it if I send it to them. I hate shipping fragile guns as too many get wrecked. I also don't think the fix is rocket science given a good set of files and stones, I'm just looking for someone who has done it.
Thanks.

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: Ruger_450]
      #226882 - 12/03/13 12:50 PM

Take the stock off and ship it. It just takes a 7/16 socket and a long extension to remove it after you pull the pad.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Ruger_450
Banned


Reged: 10/03/13
Posts: 163
Loc: WY & FL
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: AkMike]
      #226929 - 13/03/13 02:14 AM

Thanks, I know how to take apart a No. 1. Point is, as said, I don't think this is rocket science, done a lot of filing and stoning in my 70 years as well as being a Porsche factory trained mechanic back in the "real Porsche" (356) days, when a lot of hand fitting was required to keep those "ladies of the night" running down the road. You a'int lived until you've changed the plugs in a 356 Carrara like my 65'. (Easiest way was to drop out engine on your chest while on a creeper, then put it on an engine stand, I was a lot younger then !)
Thanks !

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: Ruger_450]
      #226931 - 13/03/13 02:36 AM

I do like Pretty ladies with beautiful butts!

Would it be possible to make or have made a new ejector that operated ONLY like a rimmed extractor/ejector?

It should be an easy matter to modify the cam to prevent movement lateral movement of the extractor/ejector.

I would expect a gunsmith who understood Ruger #1's could do this easily.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: Ruger_450]
      #226933 - 13/03/13 02:46 AM

I have a 1-H Tropical .458 WM made in 1977. Fit and finish is better than today.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26516
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: bonanza]
      #226938 - 13/03/13 04:32 AM

Oh yeah - back in the mid 70's - they had wonderful wood, very close if not the same quality as the one pictured above. The odd one even had matching fore wood. I sold quite a number of the #1B's at the store but only a few Tropical models. They always had special wood, in .375 or .458.

$175.00 at Hunter's Sporting Goods, King George Highway, Vancouver, B.C.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: DarylS]
      #226943 - 13/03/13 07:12 AM

Ruger 450,

Maybe a gunsmith or custom rifle forum will provide the answers you need.

Good luck with it and straight shooting

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Ruger_450
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Reged: 10/03/13
Posts: 163
Loc: WY & FL
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: DarylS]
      #226983 - 14/03/13 03:40 AM

Quote:

I do like Pretty ladies with beautiful butts!

Would it be possible to make or have made a new ejector that operated ONLY like a rimmed extractor/ejector?

It should be an easy matter to modify the cam to prevent movement lateral movement of the extractor/ejector.

I would expect a gunsmith who understood Ruger #1's could do this easily.



You are partially correct. If the ejector is to work as designed, it MUST move from right to left to go around the rim, regardless if the cartridge is rimed or rimless. It is not pushed over by any cam, it just slides over the rim much like a Model 70 or modern commercial Mauser. However, IF you back the ejector tension screw all the way out AND only open the action enough to get the cartridge in (Very tricky with the huge rim on this cartridge) the ejector will only come back about 1/3rd and you can place the rim on it and push it in with your thumb. After firing, again you only open the action enough to clear the block, it will be EXTRACTED about 3/4" and you can hook it out with your fingernail.

Obviously not as designed and would get you stomped/gored/clawed/chewed if a followup shot were required.

I tried both the single shot and this forum and, thus far, hit a dead end. Wishing the guy had left it a 458 !

thanks !

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: Ruger_450]
      #226984 - 14/03/13 05:32 AM

OK - I know I'm right about the Pretty ladies with beautiful butts.

It just seemed to me it should be an easy 'change' to eliminate the sideways drift of the extractor - perhaps by adding material (building up) to the left side of it to prevent it's moving sideways so it works a normal rimmed extractor?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ruger_450
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Reged: 10/03/13
Posts: 163
Loc: WY & FL
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: DarylS]
      #227020 - 15/03/13 01:23 PM

I'm assuming you don't own any No. 1s.

The ejector has to move sideways as it is not like an original High Wall (for example) where the extractor (no ejector) only moves out enough to get the rim clear of the chamber where it can be dumped out ot pulled out with a fingernail. In the Ruger the ejector is spring loaded to snap the cartridge out of the chamber and the rifle.
The ejector when open sits way back in the action and to the left of the chamber axis. The next shell loaded (rimmed or rimless) drops into the chamber going right past the ejector. The the breech is closed, a roller on the breechblock side pushes the ejector forward until it contacts the rim. It then moves left (like a modern Mauser bolt action moves right and snaps over the rim) until it clears the rim at which point a spring and plunger push it to the right behind the rim. To work correctly there are two critical factors:

-the ejector must have a contour on its front of the hook that will slip around the rim.
-the ejector arm must be pushed far enough forward to get behind the rim.

Problem 1: Since the 450 #2 rim is .650 the 458 WRA only .532, getting that lateral move to the left is difficult

Problem 2: The 458 ejector (modified) that came in my rifle has an arm front to rear dimension that is abou 5 thou less than the new 416 Rigby, that may just enough to prevent by just a skosh, the ejector from sliding behind the rim. (As by just dry firing it, the 458 one is jarred enough to snap behind the rim)

Tomorrow I get out the stones and start (hopefully finish) getting the right bevel on the front of the 416 hook to allow it to slide around that huge rim. The transverse spring may need to be lightened to lower the resistance of moving the ejector around the giant rim.

More to follow. Thanks.

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Ruger_450
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Reged: 10/03/13
Posts: 163
Loc: WY & FL
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: Ruger_450]
      #227078 - 16/03/13 12:58 PM

Okay, figgered it out. Started with a fresh 416 rigby ejector and stoned it until it worked exactly like the 458 (modified) that came with the rifle.

Turns out the real problem is not the rim DIAMETER but the rim THICKNESS.

There appears to be no factory chambering in a No. 1 where the rim is a thick as the 450 Nitro #2 3 & 1/2". So the Ruger is set up to push the ejector far enough forward to engage any factory chambered rimless or rimmed cartridge. The ejector cut in the barrel is deep enough, as after the roller pushes the ejector up next to the rim (as far as it can) you can push ejector "home" with a skinny punch.

Therefore the REAL problem is the front to rear dimension of the ejector arm, as the roller cannot push it far enough forward.

If I were home with all my tools, I would drill and tap the roller side of the arm and put in a small allen screw. I'd adjust that until roller seated the ejector "home" and red locktite it in place.

For now, I have backed the ejector tension screw all the way out, so that the load/unload is like a traditional Winchester High Wall. You push the cartridge in with your thumb and it pushes the ejector (which is now just an extractor) home. When you drop the block, the "extractor" pulls the case out about 3/4" which allows you to dump it or hook it out with a fingernail.

Welcome back to 1885 !

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: Ruger_450]
      #227080 - 16/03/13 01:07 PM


Yes, of course, the 450 No 2 has a really thick rim
which is why the conversion works for 450NE but not
the 450 No 2.

Well done for sorting it out.

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Ruger_450
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Reged: 10/03/13
Posts: 163
Loc: WY & FL
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: 500Nitro]
      #227146 - 17/03/13 11:04 AM

Now if I just had a CAD machine shop......... I could knock out a thicker armed ejector and a larger roller and really fix it correctly !

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Ruger_450
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Reged: 10/03/13
Posts: 163
Loc: WY & FL
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: Ruger_450]
      #228481 - 10/04/13 12:57 PM

IT WORKS !

I dropped one of the 45-70 ejectors into the 450 for a trial fit to see what fitting might be required.
Dropped in a case and raised the lever expecting it to hang up somehwhere on the 450 rim. Nope closed right up with the ejector under the rim. Dropped the lever and it extracted the empty.
So I tightened up the ejector adjustment screw and tried again. A bit more effort to close but chambered with a positive snap. Dropped the hammer, then the lever a ka-ping, the empty was ejected far enough to be clear of the barrel, sitting in the trough. Easy to dump out were a 2nd shot be needed. I could set the ejector spring even tighter to have it clear the gun, but that's not necessary for range shooting and will, of course, make chambering take more effort.
Just scored another 4X wood No.1 in 458 WinMag. Fiddleback end to end ! It's a "black pad" and has the typical open grain from cheap sprayed on finish. That can all be fixed. Now if I could find an original red buttplate, that would be the final touch.:)

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5272
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Ruger No.1 450 Nitro #2 3 &1/2" ejector problem [Re: Ruger_450]
      #228494 - 10/04/13 08:47 PM

Congrats on your success, and have fun with your projects.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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