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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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gungadoug
.333 member

Reged: 13/08/12
Posts: 285
Loc: NM

28 bore muzzleloader
#228213 - 07/04/13 08:38 AM

I have on the way an "as new" 28 bore muzzleloader sxs, Damascus barrels, Belgian make, looks to be of quality. Already have some .590 felt wads 1/8", both lubed and dry. Bore dia is advertised as .550.

Now, already I have visions of roundballs! Both .530, and .535 dia are available, and I am using .015 patching on my J P Sauer .50 x 28 cape muzzleloader, so that patch would be easy.

So- recommendations? I'm thinking 50 gr. FF and 5/8 oz to start for shot, with the felt wads, both lubed and unlubed. I'm leaning toward a start of 50 gr FF, and a .015 patched .535 ball, which would give a total of .565 in the .550 bore,, or should I go with the .530 ball for .560 total?? The bores are both cyl, with muzzle wall thickness of .065.

Reason for asking is I can get a Lee mould just about as cheaply as 100 balls!, So what to order?

BTW, this shotty is on Track of the Wolf under antiques.

Thanks for input! Doug

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relics6165
.224 member

Reged: 15/12/12
Posts: 26
Loc: USA

Re: 28 bore muzzleloader [Re: gungadoug]
#228215 - 07/04/13 09:13 AM

Doug:

That's a nice looking rig, looks like it oughta be a lot of fun. For small game, the 53 (or so) caliber roundball will have more power than many people think.

Is this it?

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/494/2/AAM-020

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gungadoug
.333 member

Reged: 13/08/12
Posts: 285
Loc: NM

Re: 28 bore muzzleloader [Re: relics6165]
#228216 - 07/04/13 09:20 AM

Yep- couldn't resist!!

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 28 bore muzzleloader [Re: gungadoug]
#228218 - 07/04/13 10:14 AM

I'd go with the .530" balls, Doug, considering the smooth bores. That gives .005" compression per side and should be just fine. I don't think tighter than that is good, as you might have to go even thinner on the patch.

As to loads, I'd start at 2 drams - about 55gr., 1 gr. per calibre. This will give VERY low pressures and, I feel, a good place to start with an original.

Hopefully, all will go well and you can incrimentally raise the round ball loads to about 65gr to 75gr. 2F. regulation will tell, if it does regulate.

Nice looking gun.

Did you see the 13 bore straight rifled single W.R.?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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gungadoug
.333 member

Reged: 13/08/12
Posts: 285
Loc: NM

Re: 28 bore muzzleloader [Re: DarylS]
#228222 - 07/04/13 10:32 AM

Yep! When you take that home, I'd love to have a few shots!! Thanks for your experience, and will go with the .530.. Can always increase the patch thickness, though what I have would be nice. In addition, a .530 roundball with a decent charge is nothing to think lightly of!
Doug

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 28 bore muzzleloader [Re: gungadoug]
#228271 - 08/04/13 01:00 AM

They do have limits, though. Lewis and Clark found the issue load for their .54's was to light for the plains grizzlies.

The issue charge in the paper ctgs. for the pre-patched balls was only 60gr. with slightly inferior powder to today - until about 1820.

By the 1830's and 1840's, bison were being shot with Martial (issue).54 flint pistols from horseback. Those pistols and the larger bored English dueling pistols were thought quite highly of for dispatching buffalo while 'running' them.

Any bison close by, Doug? Now THAT would be fun - pistol or rifle.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

Re: 28 bore muzzleloader [Re: DarylS]
#228296 - 08/04/13 08:31 AM

Daryl is correct.
You must remember that caliber was the same in the days of the muzzleloader as it is now.
It's only the diameter of the bore.
A thin barreled fowler would not be safe to fire with heavy charges and hard balls like the same caliber from a "planes rifle"

Both a 30 carbine and a 300 H&H are 30 cal, but that's where the similarity ends.

I hope I make the point.
It's oversimplified a bit, but it's a good place to start learning.

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gungadoug
.333 member

Reged: 13/08/12
Posts: 285
Loc: NM

Re: 28 bore muzzleloader [Re: szihn]
#228307 - 08/04/13 11:24 AM

Understood. I do , in fact, have buff close at hand- friends own a bison ranch, we shoot every Sunday!

Yes I do understand the differences in rifle, vs shot bbls. Here lies the question-- how much interference is appropriate in the ball/ patch/ bore dia in a shotty, damascus, in as new condition?

I am inclined to the .530, with .005 compression on loading. I can always increase patch thickness.

I think I will start, assuming this is a keeper, with about 50 gr FF, and 5/8 oz. With today's results with the J P Sauer in 50/ 28, 70 gr looks better, but that has thick walls.

So, due in tomorrow, and we will see!

Doug

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

Re: 28 bore muzzleloader [Re: gungadoug]
#228312 - 08/04/13 02:04 PM

Shotguns were never held to very tight standards as far as size goes, In fact, a 24 bore can actually be anything between .530 and .555 depending on who made it.
Also some guns have chokes and others don't. Chokes can be jugged or constricted, so this issue can be quite complex.

But looking at your idea on how to start,--- I’d say you are probably safe.

Remember if you are not getting the results you’d like that about 80% of the time it’s going to be related to patch thickness. A thicker patch and smaller ball cures a lot of problems in these kinds of guns.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 28 bore muzzleloader [Re: szihn]
#228342 - 09/04/13 12:28 AM

Ditto

A few of the local guys shoot 28 bore smoothbores and usually use from .526" ball (Lyman mould) to .530", which allows some latitude in patch thickness.

Normally in a smoothbore that is firing solid shot we strive for a ball that is .025" to .030" smaller than the bore, especially in the larger sizes.

The use of this size allows us to use a thicker patch which is easier to load in 'original' barrels by having more compression capability and holding more "lube' to keep fouling wet.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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gungadoug
.333 member

Reged: 13/08/12
Posts: 285
Loc: NM

Re: 28 bore muzzleloader [Re: DarylS]
#228428 - 10/04/13 12:21 AM

Well, came in yesterday, goes back today! There is no way this is antique, looks to have been made in Pakistan for Brazil trade. Sure can't tell from the pics, and I would expect TOW to be able to tell what they have! Oh well, would have been nice if it was as advertised.
Thanks, All Doug

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26537
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 28 bore muzzleloader [Re: gungadoug]
#228434 - 10/04/13 01:02 AM

That's too bad, Doug.

Pictures can be so confusing. I once bought a "Made in India, Brown Bess" that looked really good in the pictures but was absolute junk - with breech thread fitting that gave me fits - it went back, too.

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