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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive

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Oldbrit
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Reged: 04/04/10
Posts: 381
Loc: UK
Lee Speed in 375 X 2½
      #228259 - 07/04/13 11:34 PM

I took my new toy to the range yesterday. It’s a BSA Lee Speed in 375 X 2½, a companion piece to my 1902 Webley falling block in the same calibre. It is a joy to shoot.













The final picture is from The Gun and its Development by Greener. I’m not sure if my rifle is the ten guinea one or the posh fifteen guineas worth.

Can anyone help me put a date on this rifle.

Edited by NitroX (08/04/13 12:04 AM)


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Oldbrit
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Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: Oldbrit]
      #228261 - 07/04/13 11:45 PM

Sorry chaps but I have absolutely no idea why the pictures aren't appearing.

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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
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Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: Oldbrit]
      #228265 - 08/04/13 12:00 AM

Sounds very cool to me, a Magazine 375 x 2 1/2"

Photobucket seems to be the easiest to load photos with.
Email them to me if you want and I will up load.

As I am a chamber marking Junkie, please be sure to include a shot of those ... :):)

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: Oldbrit]
      #228266 - 08/04/13 12:09 AM

Quote:

Sorry chaps but I have absolutely no idea why the pictures aren't appearing.




Two reasons - just to help your posts in the future.
1. You left a space in the image address after the JPG.
2. The last image address was incorrect, and had additional address references after the jpg. For ubb, the last item in any image address should be jpg or gif. Sometimes an incorrect image reference messes up all the image references so none display.

Like the Lee Speed.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


Edited by NitroX (08/04/13 02:26 AM)


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Oldbrit
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Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: NitroX]
      #228278 - 08/04/13 02:06 AM

Thanks NitroX

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HistoricBore
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Reged: 28/09/11
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Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: NitroX]
      #228279 - 08/04/13 02:14 AM

That is a great find, and a very useable calibre! I would guess at a date of between 1900 and 1910. I cannot see a single shot cut-off device, so guess it might be later than some Lee-Speeds. The Mantons of Calcutta catalogue of 1925 shows a VERY similar rifle, but with the cut-off, so maybe it was made after WW1... Its price then was 260 rupees, when £1.00 bought 15 rupees. So that makes it £17-8-0 in old money. Not sure if India had Purchase Tax like the UK, but shipping would have added something to the cost of course. As you know, selling .303 rifles was forbidden in case they fell into the hands of rebellious natives.....

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lancaster
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Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: HistoricBore]
      #228282 - 08/04/13 03:06 AM

oldbrit, can you tell me what maximum cartridge lenght the magazine accept? just ask this because the .375 mannlicher dont take modern kynoch made ammo. its 2mm to long to fit into the mannlicher magazine but work as single shot.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Oldbrit
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Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: lancaster]
      #228293 - 08/04/13 07:42 AM

HistoricBore - Thanks for the information, you're correct, my rifle has no cut-off.

Lancaster - I'm reloading to a maximum OAL of 3.1" and they seem to fit in the magazine with no problems. When I next reload I'll try progressively seating a bullet to see what happens. Watch this space.... but it won't be in the next few days. If I have a real rush of blood to the head I might break open another of my packets of original 1938 ammunition and measure one of those for you but don't count on it.

Don't get excited I shot this pack off in my Webley:



NitroX - Hey! I got the posting of the picture right this time!!!!! (Well, OK, at the third go but right eventually.)

Edited by Oldbrit (08/04/13 07:49 AM)


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Even
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Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: Oldbrit]
      #228299 - 08/04/13 08:56 AM

That is a very nice rifle, Oldbrit. A BSA sporter is next on my list, and I think I'll be looking for one without the cut-off. Has to be in .303 though

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Oldbrit
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Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: Even]
      #228553 - 11/04/13 08:24 PM

Lancaster ...

To try and answer your question about OAL in the magazine of my Lee Speed I took a case and gradually seated a 300 gr Hornady solid. The OAL that permitted the cartridge to be fully depressed in the magazine was 3.11". Forgive me if I am loathe to open one of my sealed packets of original ammunition, I have no idea what I'm saving them for but it is nice to have them and I'm not too sure if it would help you in solving your problem. If and when I do open one I'll be sure to measure a cartridge for you.

My guess (and this is pure speculation) at your problem with the Kynamco ammunition is that they are using commercially available bullets wherever possible in their ammunition. I'm willing to bet that no bullet manufacturer when making a 270gr .375" bullet thinks to himself,

"Aha! Although I'm designing this bullet for the 375 H&H Magnum, I must make allowance for the 375 X 2½."

I imagine they place the crimp groove where it allows for the correct OAL for the Magnum. According to my copy of Cartridges of the World the 375 X 2½ has an OAL of 3.1" and a case length of 2.5" and so the crimp groove of the bullet must allow for no more that .6" of the bullet protruding from the case. The OAL of the Magnum is 3.6" with a case length of 2.85" and so the crimp groove allows .75" of the bullet to protrude for the correct OAL. I suspect that Kynamco are using a bullet with a crimp groove that allows them to get as close as possible to the right OAL for the 375 X 2½ and sadly for you that's a bit too long to fit in your magazine.

I think the answer to your problem may lie in handloading. The bullets for the 375 Winchester would almost certainly work but they are light for the calibre and may be difficult to get to shoot to the open sights. I can't try this myself as UK law does not permit me to purchase expanding bullets for target shooting. On the other hand you could handload one of the current crop of 270 gr bullets and either not crimp (perhaps not a good idea in a magazine rifle with a fair amount of recoil) or buy a custom collet crimp die from Lee. If you decide on the custom crimp die let me know and we might get them to make two and we'll split the costs down the middle. Otherwise you could just trim the soft point off the loaded Kynamco bullets until they fit. I did wonder about cutting back your very expensive cases to reduce the OAL but then they might not reach the crimp shoulder in your dies.

I've just had another thought which would be cheap and easy. You could buy a standard Lee collet crimp die in a 35 calibre (e.g. 35 Remington). Cut off a length of rod measured so that when you balance a bullet on top of it the bullet is placed in the collet so that the jaws close exactly where you want your new crimp groove. Raise the ram on your press and you should have a crimp groove exactly where you want it to be. I've used this method to put a new grease groove in a bullet that has been modified for 380 Rook.

I hope that helps.


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jc5
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Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: Oldbrit]
      #228592 - 12/04/13 12:29 PM

Nice rifle!

Is there a maker's name on the wrist?

What is the barrel length? Overall length?

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.


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Oldbrit
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Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: jc5]
      #228679 - 13/04/13 08:55 PM

jc5

The rifle is maked B.S.A. Co. on the wrist and the barrel is 24". OAL = 45".


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lancaster
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Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: Oldbrit]
      #228699 - 14/04/13 04:09 AM

Quote:

Lancaster ...

To try and answer your question about OAL in the magazine of my Lee Speed I took a case and gradually seated a 300 gr Hornady solid. The OAL that permitted the cartridge to be fully depressed in the magazine was 3.11". Forgive me if I am loathe to open one of my sealed packets of original ammunition, I have no idea what I'm saving them for but it is nice to have them and I'm not too sure if it would help you in solving your problem. If and when I do open one I'll be sure to measure a cartridge for you.

My guess (and this is pure speculation) at your problem with the Kynamco ammunition is that they are using commercially available bullets wherever possible in their ammunition. I'm willing to bet that no bullet manufacturer when making a 270gr .375" bullet thinks to himself,

"Aha! Although I'm designing this bullet for the 375 H&H Magnum, I must make allowance for the 375 X 2½."

I imagine they place the crimp groove where it allows for the correct OAL for the Magnum. According to my copy of Cartridges of the World the 375 X 2½ has an OAL of 3.1" and a case length of 2.5" and so the crimp groove of the bullet must allow for no more that .6" of the bullet protruding from the case. The OAL of the Magnum is 3.6" with a case length of 2.85" and so the crimp groove allows .75" of the bullet to protrude for the correct OAL. I suspect that Kynamco are using a bullet with a crimp groove that allows them to get as close as possible to the right OAL for the 375 X 2½ and sadly for you that's a bit too long to fit in your magazine.

I think the answer to your problem may lie in handloading. The bullets for the 375 Winchester would almost certainly work but they are light for the calibre and may be difficult to get to shoot to the open sights. I can't try this myself as UK law does not permit me to purchase expanding bullets for target shooting. On the other hand you could handload one of the current crop of 270 gr bullets and either not crimp (perhaps not a good idea in a magazine rifle with a fair amount of recoil) or buy a custom collet crimp die from Lee. If you decide on the custom crimp die let me know and we might get them to make two and we'll split the costs down the middle. Otherwise you could just trim the soft point off the loaded Kynamco bullets until they fit. I did wonder about cutting back your very expensive cases to reduce the OAL but then they might not reach the crimp shoulder in your dies.

I've just had another thought which would be cheap and easy. You could buy a standard Lee collet crimp die in a 35 calibre (e.g. 35 Remington). Cut off a length of rod measured so that when you balance a bullet on top of it the bullet is placed in the collet so that the jaws close exactly where you want your new crimp groove. Raise the ram on your press and you should have a crimp groove exactly where you want it to be. I've used this method to put a new grease groove in a bullet that has been modified for 380 Rook.

I hope that helps.




"I think the answer to your problem may lie in handloading." - allways true

ok, here are some pics



left new kynoch, right old kynoch





new kynoch, imho, bertram made brass and the bullet by woodleigh
to my knowledge only maker have 270 grains roundnose softpoint




old kynoch, have only components but it seems this would fit into the mannlicher magazine

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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C_Davidson
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Reged: 31/12/11
Posts: 36
Loc: USA
Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: lancaster]
      #229486 - 01/05/13 12:36 AM

There's information here in the forums that indicates .375 2 1/2 inch was loaded to two lengths in the early days. One short for the Lee Speed magazines and another longer for the double guns. Modern Kynoch is loaded to double gun dimensions and won't fit Lee Speed magazines for that reason. Overall loaded length is important for this cartridge.

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bwanabobftw
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Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: C_Davidson]
      #229506 - 01/05/13 08:12 AM

Oldbrit
I am green with envy , what a neat rifle in a great old round !!!!! Hope you can take it hunting . Thanks for sharing .
Robert


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Deutsche_Vortrekker
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Reged: 27/04/08
Posts: 449
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Re: Lee Speed in 375 X 2½ [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #229538 - 01/05/13 08:33 PM

Lions, I say!

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