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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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wild_williamdog
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Reged: 10/02/13
Posts: 15
Loc: Canada
I Hollis & Sons
      #225111 - 12/02/13 12:07 AM

On this forum I have read a few posts on this maker. I have one of these doubles in 450/400 NE. Serial number is 101400. On the rib is printed I Hollis & Sons Birmingham & London. Underneath the barrels by the lugs is printed " cordite. 450-400 EX and 60-400 max" . It has Bp proof marks with a picture of a crown, above. On the left of the receiver there is an an graving of a lion stalking a gazelle or some such animal, a leopard on the right and the head of an elephant on the bottom. The engraving is somewhat faint but clearly discernable. I have fired it using 80 grains of IMR 4831. It seems to be well regulated with the bullet holes on the target practically touching bang on the cross I drew on the target at i50 yards.it is hammerless. I am a newbie member and love this website. Also waiting on a Merkel 500 although not sure why as the Hollis appears adequate for pretty well all large game. Haven't figured the picture posting yet and off to Africa on a site seeing tour in two days with a hopeful return at end of August to hunt buffalo. Does anyone have any thoughts on year and yvalue of the Hollis? I bought it from a friend who had a contact from India from where the rifle came. It is in nice shape and just needed a new recoil pad.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: wild_williamdog]
      #225113 - 12/02/13 12:48 AM

wild_williamdog,

Welcome to NE.com and congratulations on your Hollis.

To answer your question of value more information, including detailed photos would be necessary. In the meantime you should be the best judge of value since you recently bought it on the open market. It is certainly worth the agreed price to you, and I assume you are not presently intending to sell it.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: CptCurl]
      #225118 - 12/02/13 04:41 AM

Have you gotten a copy of Shooting the British Double Rifle?

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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wild_williamdog
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Posts: 15
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: AkMike]
      #225120 - 12/02/13 05:06 AM

Yikes! I have fired it numerous times without any adverse consequences and thought that since it was hammerless that modern powders were suitable. Is it because there is no reference to the word "Nitro" that makes it Bp? Did find some additional proof marks BV and NP if that is significant.

Also not sure i understand 6o-400 Max as can't see how that could relate to grains of cordite as would not 400, if grains,not fit any brass other than a small mortar?

Thanks so much and look to hearing more.

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wild_williamdog
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: wild_williamdog]
      #225121 - 12/02/13 05:08 AM

Oh and yes I have that book. I guess I had better look at it more closely!

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AkMike
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: wild_williamdog]
      #225123 - 12/02/13 05:10 AM

That's a must read book for doubles IMO. Its got tons of good info about how these things work.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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wild_williamdog
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Reged: 10/02/13
Posts: 15
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: wild_williamdog]
      #225124 - 12/02/13 05:12 AM

And yes I have that book and am now reading it with a view to getting info on the BP topic.

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: AkMike]
      #225125 - 12/02/13 05:16 AM

WW, I partiall read your first post w/o coffee.. I mistakenly thought it hadn't been reproofed and editied out my incorrect statment.

Since it shows the load with cordite it's been upgraded to nitro.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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500Nitro
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: wild_williamdog]
      #225126 - 12/02/13 05:19 AM

Wild

Are we missing a post above or did you suddenly read something that made you go "Yikes! in your post ?

400 relates to the Bullet weight

60 IS LIKELY to refer to the Max Load which is normally
the full load of 60 grains of cordite (their was a 55gn "Tropical" Load as well).

The reason I say LIKELY is because I like to see the proof marks in a photo before saying definitely.

"proof marks BV and NP if that is significant."
That's an understatement.

Your gun looks like it has been proofed for the
full Nitro load used in that calibre.





Edited by 500Nitro (12/02/13 05:23 AM)

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AkMike
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: 500Nitro]
      #225127 - 12/02/13 05:22 AM

LOL I messed up in my first reply and corrected it after a cup of coffee.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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wild_williamdog
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: AkMike]
      #225128 - 12/02/13 05:29 AM

The 400 I am now thinking is the bullet weight. A member had advised that this was a black powder rifle and to stop using nitro loads. Looking at the book tho I am not sue that this is the case- pages 11 and 12??????

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doubleriflejack
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: wild_williamdog]
      #225129 - 12/02/13 05:30 AM

Since your Hollis says "cordite. 450-400 EX and 60-400 max," meaning 60 grains cordite, 400 grain bullet, maximum; it is obviously a nitro rifle. To determine modern powder to use, equivalent to that 60 grains cordite, you need to refer to good reference; not use 60 grains of just any old powder. Whoever told you that it is a black powder rifle, is simply wrong! Hollis is an outstanding rifle---I own several, including a .450/400 nitro hammer rifle, same caliber and proof as yours, that also came out of India, having once been owned by an Indian working for the British Government at the time. Simply because a rifle is a hammer gun, does not mean it was not a nitro rifle!

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AkMike
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #225130 - 12/02/13 05:37 AM

He said it's got the BP proof marks on it. It'll be interesting to see if they are there and if it's been reproofed.

Edit; Is this the 3 1/4" case or the 3" case?
The 3" was never used as a BP round only the 3 1/4".

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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500Nitro
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #225131 - 12/02/13 05:37 AM


"Simply because a rifle is a hammer gun, does not mean it was not a nitro rifle!"


And also vice versa,

Simply because a rifle is a hammerLESS gun,
does not mean it is a nitro rifle !

English guns need to be checked.


I agree, it is almost certainly a nitro proofed gun.


You did the right thing coming on a forum and asking.

Sounds like you have a winner.

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wild_williamdog
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #225132 - 12/02/13 05:40 AM

Thanks all. It is then agreed that it is "Nitro" rifle and that suitable modern powders may be used. As indicated I have been using 80 grains of IMR 4831. Will try for some pics.

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wild_williamdog
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: wild_williamdog]
      #225133 - 12/02/13 05:47 AM

Sorry, yes it says3 inches on the rib.

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: wild_williamdog]
      #225134 - 12/02/13 05:50 AM

Wonderful!
Now show some pictures of the beast! Include the flats of the barrels please.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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500Nitro
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: AkMike]
      #225139 - 12/02/13 06:17 AM

Wild

"Agreed" as such but I like to see the proof marks.

Only reason is because of dodgy practices, that's all.

But it is almost a certainty.


Now get some pictures up !!! LOL

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tinker
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: AkMike]
      #225141 - 12/02/13 06:22 AM

Welcome to NE!

We all look forward to photos of your rifle and your Africa trip.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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wild_williamdog
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: 500Nitro]
      #225142 - 12/02/13 06:23 AM

Would love to but just got a new Mac and having trouble so may have to wait til I get back or check with my wife. (Hate to admit that)

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wild_williamdog
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: CptCurl]
      #225150 - 12/02/13 08:20 AM

http://s1277.beta.photobucket.com/user/p...?sort=3&o=0

http://s1277.beta.photobucket.com/user/p...?sort=3&o=1

http://s1277.beta.photobucket.com/user/p...?sort=3&o=2




web page


[image]http://s1277.beta.photobucket.com/user/paulafillmore/media/photoofHOLLIS_zps01c94468.jpg.html?sort=3&o=1[/image]

web page web page

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wild_williamdog
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Reged: 10/02/13
Posts: 15
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: wild_williamdog]
      #225151 - 12/02/13 08:26 AM

OK pictures courtesy of wife Paula. If any complaints I will give you her number. Now back to estimate of value and year of manufacture questions. Condition be described as very good to excellent. I acquired it some time ago. Thanks

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500Nitro
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: wild_williamdog]
      #225154 - 12/02/13 08:49 AM


Nice gun.

Is it an ejector ?

It looks like it is a restock, what is your opinion ?
(I do not subscribe to the originality theory,
especially with guns out of India which were often
very oil soaked - and therefore rooted !)

Rough estimate.
Above $10k, Sub $20k.

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MotelAlpha
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Reged: 04/02/13
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Loc: Maryland,USA
Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: 500Nitro]
      #225157 - 12/02/13 09:16 AM

I too own a nice Hollis hammer gun with "invisible" rifling.quite accurate and a great history. Owned, or built for the Duke of Connaught who was Queen elizabeths third son. Way to nice to shoot much, but I do have a nice easy to shoot load that came with it along with a very well made bronz mold.

--------------------
Pro Deo et Pro Patria

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500Nitro
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Re: I Hollis & Sons [Re: MotelAlpha]
      #225158 - 12/02/13 09:18 AM


Oh, forgot to add.

Proof marks look fine for a Nitro gun.

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