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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Brian
.224 member


Reged: 03/02/05
Posts: 41
Loc: NY (Delaware County)
Chapuis and caliber decision????
      #224498 - 30/01/13 08:32 AM

I want opinions before I order.
Looking at a Chapuis double rifle,. I would prefer to oder the series 3, the smaller 28 ga frame size. 6lbs or so weight without optic. I could go with the UGEX (20 ga Frame) and that’s a pound heavier.
Rifle to be used primarily for eastern White tails, black bear and the occasional moose.
I will go with a Leupold scope in EAW pivot mounts with illuminated reticle for deep woods and early morning and late day use. 54 year old eyes need a little help.
Add a pound or so for glass and rings.
So, this leaves caliber.
My choices are 6.5x57R, 7x65R, 30-30, 8x57JR, 9.3x74R
If I go to the heaver UGEX, I can add 30-06 and 30R Blazer. Of course 30-06 would give me the most choices in factory ammo.
I have experience with the 9.3x74R. But in a rifle of this weight, a little too much recoil.
I have no experience with the other metrics, only what I have read.
Ammo availability is one factor besides performance.
I plan on using mostly factory ammo. What factory 8x57R and the others is available readily in US? I am not talking 80 bucks a box RWS.

None of this is written in stone right now.

--------------------
Brian

LTC, IN
Back from Afghanistan
Life Member A.H. Fox Gun Collectors Assoc.
Endowment Member NRA
Delaware County, NY

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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: Brian]
      #224500 - 30/01/13 08:55 AM

I would take rimmed shell i.e. 8x57 IRS or 7x65R. That´s because .30 Blaser ammo costs allways much much more.

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Well_Well_Well
.333 member


Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 305
Loc: Australia
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: Igorrock]
      #224521 - 30/01/13 06:19 PM

Series 3, 8x57R


If it wasn't for moose I'd have nominated 30-30.

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: Well_Well_Well]
      #224522 - 30/01/13 07:35 PM

8x57R.

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HistoricBore
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Reged: 28/09/11
Posts: 226
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: tophet1]
      #224525 - 30/01/13 08:37 PM

Also 8 x 57R. A pal is just back from boar shooting in France, and used that calibre with success.

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Matabele
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Reged: 16/09/10
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Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: HistoricBore]
      #224527 - 30/01/13 10:23 PM

Personally Id go for the 28 gauge frame size and the 6.5x57R, only if Chapuis would regulate for the 160gr round however. This would prove adequate for moose I think, given good bullet construction and placement as always. It would make for a slim and trim little rifle that would recoil less than the 8x57R. Im thinking about a 6.5x53R based on a 20 gauge shotgun action, hence my preference for the 6.5.

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Grenadier
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Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: Brian]
      #224532 - 31/01/13 04:57 AM

I have some experience with the 7x65R and I like it very much. However, from your choices for a light rifle I would pick the the 30-30. Most people do not realize just how accurate a 30-30 can be, especially with good bullets. Hornady's 160 gr FTX LEVERevolution ammo is the best thing going in factory 30-30 ammunition. If you could have the rifle regulated to that load it would make a formidable little dear and bear rifle.

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Chasseur
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Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: Brian]
      #224538 - 31/01/13 06:30 AM

Is being able to buy factory ammo in the US easily a major concern for you or not? If it is than sticking with 30-30 or similar would probably be better for you.

If you are OK with hand loads then I personally think either: the 7x65R, or and the 8x57JR would work well. As an earlier poster mentioned for close range work in driven hunts the 8x57jr is quite common in France (and I would imagine other places in Europe) for wild boar, red stag and roe deer. I've seen lots of game fall to this cartridge even though I do not use it myself.

I am a big fan of the 7x65r and I use it extensively for most of my hunting. I have a drilling and single shot in this caliber. Its flat shooting, accurate and with minimal recoil. I'd pick it just because I think its more flexible for longer range shooting, though with your double rifle you might not be considering a great deal of long range shooting.

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: Brian]
      #224539 - 31/01/13 06:37 AM

6.5x57R and 7x65R are too small in caliber; bullet weight way too light for moose; sometimes too small for black bear too, if bear is wounded and charges you, for example. When hunting big heavy animals with such small calibers, you will get too many animals that you wound that get away. Yes, they will kill, if bullet placement is ideal, but in practical hunting applications, too often bullet placement isn't ideal, based on personal hunting experiences over 40+ years. Those who prefer needle bullets shot at high velocity for large heavy animals simply lack experience, in my opinion.
8x57JR will work well for whitetail, black bear, and moose, and the 9.3x74R will perform even better, especially for moose. However, in 9.3x74R it is best to have rifle around 7 to 8 pounds weight. 9.3x74R is a wonderful cartridge, probably one of about two or three best earlier day cartridges ever developed by the Germans. Use it, and you will understand why it is so well liked and popular in Europe, considered the Queen of cartridges. For moose, it is ideal. .30R Blazer ammo is too expensive, comparatively speaking.
My Dad was in Marine Corp. during WWII, fighting the Japanese, and from that point on, through his whole life, he loved the .30-06, telling me, when I was a young boy deer hunter in Montana, where I was born and raised, that one thing he loved about the .30-06 was that you could buy cartridges in any little two bit town anywhere in American; he was right. I have shot many deer, elk, and moose with it, often with 220 grain bullet weight for elk/moose, and was fairly satisfied with results (but, shooting similar animals with 9.3x74R, or .375 rimmed, I was even more satisfied with results). However, the .30-06 doesn't have a rim, so most people fear that it won't always eject/extract properly or well. In my collection of double rifles, both over/under and sxs, I have several chambered for the .30-06 and others in .270, most made prior to WWII; I have never once had a problem with any of them not ejecting or extracting correctly, firmly, so I think if the rifles were built well in the beginning; well cared for, one need not worry about such things.

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Grenadier
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Reged: 20/02/08
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Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #224543 - 31/01/13 08:04 AM

Though the 30-30 is not generally considered the best choice for moose, many, many moose have been taken with it.

Look at the video at this link to see a moose shot with the 30-30. I suggest you skip ahead to the 24:00 (24 minutes) mark: Moose shot with 30-30

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Idahoshooter
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Reged: 27/10/12
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Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: Brian]
      #224572 - 01/02/13 06:22 AM

Brian,
I would choose the 8x57JR. Midway lists Norma ammo at $45-$50 and Sellier & Bellot at $25, if ammo price and availability is an issue then go with the 30/06. I'm a big fan of the 30/30, but I dont think I'd ever use one on a moose. Make no mistake, a 30/30 will kill a moose, usually after it runs several hundred yards and dies in the middle of a beaver pond.

Greg

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: Idahoshooter]
      #224576 - 01/02/13 08:08 AM

The ammo availability is a moot point. That will depend on what the factory regulates it with. Find that out and then look for the ammo.

8X57R would be my choice for your intended use.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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450
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Reged: 30/12/06
Posts: 199
Loc: Melbourne,Victoria, Australia
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: AkMike]
      #224683 - 03/02/13 04:51 PM

Brian.

I have the Chapius UGEX in 30-06 calibre which at the moment is regulated for the 165 grain Woodliegh Protected point. It currently sports a Leopold 2.5-8 vx3. It is a great rifle to use and carry and very comfortable to shoot. I have shot pigs with it and it has shot a few fallow deer by the my mate who previously owned it. I am in the process of buying a Aimpoint micro dot sight for it to replace the scope. The 7x65R is also a great calibre. Rimmed or not IMHO does not make any difference. I got rid of my Browning 9.3x74R to buy the Chapius. The 30-06 is much easier and cheaper to buy cases and projectiles, I can shoot it more and the size game I hunt really does not need $1.00 projectiles.

My suggestions is 30-06 if mainly deer and black bear with an odd moose. I have had no experience with the 8x57.

Wayne

--------------------
The worst days shooting and hunting is better than the best day at work

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ozhunter
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Reged: 18/08/04
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Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: 450]
      #224685 - 03/02/13 05:30 PM

My preferred medium calibre is the 9.3x74 which is so versatile)you can use it on game up to Elephants). However if you want lighter, then 8x57 or 7x65 would be good options. RWS makes a great range of Ammunition for the 7x65 but I'm not sure about the 8mm.
Being that the 8x57R is used extensively on driven hunts in Europe where reloading is not popular, there must be a few factory offerings in this calibre.

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albertan
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Reged: 13/06/06
Posts: 432
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: ozhunter]
      #224729 - 04/02/13 09:58 AM

With Hornady making both component brass and loaded ammunition for the 9.3x74 it would be my first choice. There are many different bullets available and there is a vast amount of loading data for this old cartridge. I am siding with the ozhunter with this one.

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Brian
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Reged: 03/02/05
Posts: 41
Loc: NY (Delaware County)
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: albertan]
      #224906 - 07/02/13 05:50 AM

Okay, I have narrowed it down to 8x57JR or 9.3x74.

I am looking at the Chapuis Series three (on a 28 Ga frame) which is 6.25 lbs without a scope. I am planning on putting Leupold illuminated reticle VX-R series in either 2x7 x 33 or 3x9x 40. yes I know, what the hell do you want a 3x9 on it.the size difference between the 2x7 and the 3x9 is not that much, weigh is 12.7 oz vs. 15.3 oz and legnth is 11.3" for the 2x7 and 12.7" for the 3x9.
I am thinkng the larger objective will help in low light, early morning and late evening . My eyes suck in low light now and between the illuminated reticle and the larger objective, it should help.
what are your thoughts. anyone use one of these scopes?
its not like I am adding uneccesary weight. esopecially if I am going ot go with the 9.3. with mounts it will be under 8 lbs scoped, probably lcoser to 7.5 lbs.

of course it will go in EAW pivot mounts.

comments please.

--------------------
Brian

LTC, IN
Back from Afghanistan
Life Member A.H. Fox Gun Collectors Assoc.
Endowment Member NRA
Delaware County, NY

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: Brian]
      #224907 - 07/02/13 07:00 AM

If you're planning on putting those large scopes on it make sure that it's regulated with them on at the factory. If not they might not group well for you.

Make sure you discuss this with your dealer before ordering it!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Brian
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Reged: 03/02/05
Posts: 41
Loc: NY (Delaware County)
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: AkMike]
      #224911 - 07/02/13 07:48 AM

scope (whichever I choose) will be sent to factory so rifle can be regulated with it.

--------------------
Brian

LTC, IN
Back from Afghanistan
Life Member A.H. Fox Gun Collectors Assoc.
Endowment Member NRA
Delaware County, NY

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: Brian]
      #224912 - 07/02/13 07:50 AM

Good Idea! Just remember that it still might not group well when shot with iron sights after all this.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: AkMike]
      #224937 - 07/02/13 08:02 PM

A 9.3x74 at 6lbs !!!! Rather you than me, someone I know of tried a lightweight Merkel (6 1/2 lbs) in that calibre and said it was the nastiest kicking rifle he had ever shot and he has shot a LOT, best

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Brian
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Reged: 03/02/05
Posts: 41
Loc: NY (Delaware County)
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #224954 - 08/02/13 02:47 AM

well, 6 1/4 - 6 1/2 and add a scope and mounts and you are at 7 1/2 or more.
thats why I am debating the 9.3 vs the 8x57 JR
decision, decisions.

this is my end of tour/end of deployments rifle. I have done 5 deployments for the US Army in combat and I am almost but not quite ready to retire (they will have to kick me out) so i am treating myslef to a new Chapuis DR. I had to sell my previous 9.3 Chapuis for one of my daughters college tuition about 14 years ago. so now its time to splurge.

--------------------
Brian

LTC, IN
Back from Afghanistan
Life Member A.H. Fox Gun Collectors Assoc.
Endowment Member NRA
Delaware County, NY

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Chapuis and caliber decision???? [Re: Brian]
      #224962 - 08/02/13 07:06 AM

With 5 combat tours under your belt I need to say Thank You for your service to our country! Impressive.
My brother did 1 in the sandbox and 1 in `Stan before he pulled the pin and retired. He was EOD.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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