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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Blazeone
.224 member


Reged: 28/12/12
Posts: 5
Loc: Houston, TX
Sabatti report
      #223046 - 07/01/13 08:52 AM

Hi, my first post on this forum and probably of no real substance LOL! After a lot of reading about the good, bad and ugly regarding Sabatti DR's. I bought a new 470NE EJT model from the Cabelas in Buda, TX. I was able to inspect it in person and found no dremeling of the muzzle as could be the case with some of the older production units. The included test target showed two rounds touching each other side by side. With this I took the plunge and purchased the gun.

Got out to shot it today using Hornady 500gr DGX ammo. Shot at 50 yrds off hand. Unfortunately I could not bench fire it as all of the benches were in use. I'll get out again and bench it so I can check barrel regulation and accuracy.

Results: all four rounds hit the 8" target, that means the gun is at least as accurate as the shooter Nothing fell off and it went bang on each trigger pull. I am not a big fellow at 5'8" and 155 lbs but handling it was no problem. Recoil was there but my shoulder remains unblemished. I'm surprised actually as my Model 70 458WinMag that has a decelerator pad on it thumps me worse.

So since all seems good, I'm now going to drop it off at our Brileys shop in Houston to get the stock cut down for my LOP and have a mercury recoil reducer installed just for the heck of it.

I'll take some pictures of it and post in the near future. Right now the barrel bores are soaking with Sharp Shoot R foaming bore cleaner

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: Sabatti report [Re: Blazeone]
      #223049 - 07/01/13 09:26 AM

Welcome to the site!

If you don't absolutely need that recoil reducer, think twice on I stalling it.
The balance will be affected, and that's a feature you might regret.
Wait until the fit work is done and see how it feels after some shooting, then think on the stock weights.

Also, note that bench technique for a double rifle will be different from common bolt rifle technique.



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
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Re: Sabatti report [Re: tinker]
      #223051 - 07/01/13 09:37 AM

Congrats on the purchase of a Double. I have seen ad's for some Sabatti's with very impressive test targets.

I agree with Tinker, in my very, very limited experience with Doubles, I would be leary of adding Mecury or changing L.O.P. much for concern of altering regulation.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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Blazeone
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Reged: 28/12/12
Posts: 5
Loc: Houston, TX
Re: Sabatti report [Re: Caprivi]
      #223057 - 07/01/13 10:34 AM

Advice taken, thank you this is my first DR. Beyond using a standing bench are there any other secrets. I could not find any searching the web.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
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Re: Sabatti report [Re: Blazeone]
      #223058 - 07/01/13 10:41 AM


Make sure you are supporting the barrel and nothing else.

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Idahoshooter
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Reged: 27/10/12
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Loc: Idaho, USA
Re: Sabatti report [Re: Caprivi]
      #223059 - 07/01/13 10:44 AM

Congratulations on the new rifle. I have two Sabatti’s, 45/70 & 450/400, and am pleased with both of them. The 450/400 is a bit muzzle heavy, so I added one pound of lead shot to the butt stock, it moved the balance point to the hinge pin and didn’t change the regulation. After a while I removed the lead shot because at 10 ¾ pounds it was too heavy, probably about right for a .470 though.
The 45/70 has fired close to a thousand rounds and the 450/400 is approaching 200, neither has had any problems.

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Blazeone
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Reged: 28/12/12
Posts: 5
Loc: Houston, TX
Re: Sabatti report [Re: 500Nitro]
      #223060 - 07/01/13 10:46 AM

Quote:


Make sure you are supporting the barrel and nothing else.



Got it, thanks. BTW the Sharp Shoot-R copper removing foam works great.

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Blazeone
.224 member


Reged: 28/12/12
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Loc: Houston, TX
Re: Sabatti report [Re: Idahoshooter]
      #223061 - 07/01/13 10:48 AM

Quote:

Congratulations on the new rifle. I have two Sabatti’s, 45/70 & 450/400, and am pleased with both of them. The 450/400 is a bit muzzle heavy, so I added one pound of lead shot to the butt stock, it moved the balance point to the hinge pin and didn’t change the regulation. After a while I removed the lead shot because at 10 ¾ pounds it was too heavy, probably about right for a .470 though.
The 45/70 has fired close to a thousand rounds and the 450/400 is approaching 200, neither has had any problems.



Thanks for the feedback. Mine is also a little barrel heavy but I'll consult with Brileys gun smiths prior to any hacking.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Re: Sabatti report [Re: Blazeone]
      #223064 - 07/01/13 11:38 AM

Quote:


Got it, thanks. BTW the Sharp Shoot-R copper removing foam works great.




Yes, wish it was easier to import but the Wipe Out Patch out is going well and works just as fast.

.

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Sabatti report [Re: 500Nitro]
      #223502 - 13/01/13 05:17 AM

Quote:

Quote:


Got it, thanks. BTW the Sharp Shoot-R copper removing foam works great.




Yes, wish it was easier to import but the Wipe Out Patch out is going well and works just as fast.

.



Be very careful with any copper remover chemical in a double rifle! Make absolutely sure this stuff dosen't come in contact with the solder joints and not immediately remove it. Anything that desolves copper will desolve lead as well!

It seems you lucked out with the Sabatti, and I hope this is an indication that Sabatti has gotten their act together!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

Edited by DUGABOY1 (13/01/13 05:23 AM)

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Mauser416
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Reged: 20/06/07
Posts: 162
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: Sabatti report [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #224331 - 26/01/13 01:12 PM

Congratulations Blazeone!

I picked a 450/400 from Buda in 2012.

My biggest problem, besides my deteriorating eyesight, was the LOP. I found it hard to acquire a good sight picture. I put on a slip-on recoil pad which made sight acquisition more natural. It helped with recoil as well, obviously.

When you shoot, the rifle itself should not rest on the support. The rifle should rest on your hand. Some folks grasp the forearm only while others grasp the front of the forearm. The later method allows the first one or two fingers to ride in front of the forearm, contacting the barrel. Doing this provides a "ledge" for your fingers to pull the rifle back into your shoulder pocket.

Eric

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

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aromakr
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Reged: 20/04/11
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Loc: Hamilton, Montana
Re: Sabatti report [Re: Mauser416]
      #224351 - 27/01/13 03:51 AM

Eric:
I don't know about you, but if I grasp any portion of the barrel on my rifle with bare hands it gets way too hot to stay in contact with, even with just one or two shots.
Bob

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Mauser416
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Reged: 20/06/07
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Re: Sabatti report [Re: aromakr]
      #224359 - 27/01/13 06:10 AM

Do you have a full-auto double??

I hear you. I haven't done a whole lot of shooting with mine but I agree that the barrels get quite warm in short order. I prefer to place my front hand close to the muzzle end of the foregrip in a manner that allows my front finger to "roll" over the edge.

I think the key when using a rest is to allow the rifle to recoil as naturally as possible. Several folks mention employing a standing rest though I have have well with a sitting rest as long as I keep my body in a fairly upright position.

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: Sabatti report [Re: Blazeone]
      #224372 - 27/01/13 10:49 AM

We have all heard that you must support the forend with your hand and never let the forend wood touch the rest. It may be true for some guns but I am starting to believe that that is not true in all cases. Please watch this video and pay attention to where the shooter's left hand is. This guy evidently regulates and/or sights in guns for a living. He has lots of shooting videos on Youtube. Unfortunately they are in French which I do not understand, but they are informative nonetheless. He is the second "factory shooter" that I have seen who uses this method. You will notice that he has the fore rest and the butt cradle of his machine rest padded with what looks to me like moleskin. You can buy this stuff at your local drugstore. I have a rest very similar to the one he is using and intend to pad it up and give it a try with one of my doubles. I do know that you don't want the front end resting on anything hard, that will make it shoot high and erradicly. Also, the more potent the caliber, the more it is apt to twist on you as you shoot it. Please watch the video and I'll be interested to see what the other members think of this. Bob
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sic4FHQ3ge4

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Mauser416
.300 member


Reged: 20/06/07
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Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: Sabatti report [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #224377 - 27/01/13 03:49 PM

Birdhuner50,

Yeah, I saw that as well. I was always taught to rest the rifle on your hand and your hand on the rest. But I find that I learn new things almost everyday. Sometimes they are even right! I'm headed out of country for a few weeks. When I get back I plan to join the gun club closer to my house. I may have to put this to the test though admit it'll feel a bit awkward.

Eric

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

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aromakr
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Reged: 20/04/11
Posts: 849
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Re: Sabatti report [Re: Mauser416]
      #224401 - 28/01/13 06:40 AM

That rifle was certainly grouping nicely, does anyone know the distance he was shooting? because I didn't understand a word he said.
Bob

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
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Re: Sabatti report [Re: aromakr]
      #224402 - 28/01/13 08:34 AM

In another video I saw that he mentioned 50 meters. I think that is probably the distance he is shooting. I can't really figure out if he is trying to regulate these guns of if he is just testing them with different kinds of ammo. In one he is shooting an 8mm JRS and uses different loads, same for the short barreled slug gun he is seen shooting in another of his videos. If he is regulating them, he must be doing all the tweeking off camera. You will see him mess around with the up and down adjustment some, but that would only effect the placement of both barrels on target. Bob

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
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Re: Sabatti report [Re: Blazeone]
      #224403 - 28/01/13 09:47 AM

The following photographs are of Steve Cranston of Holland and Holland regulating one of their .577 Nitro double rifles. Steve has been doing this for over twenty years. These were sent to me by a good friend, Stephen Howell, who asked me to help him get these put up on here for your enjoyment. In one of the photos you will see that he is heating the barrels up and putting on more rosin before he makes an adjustment to the front regulating wedge. If this is the way he does it, especially with a heavy recoiling rifle, you can bet it is the best way. Notice the placement of his front hand and the cover they put over this brand new gunstock to protect it.
This is a direct quote front Steve Howell that he sent me with the photos.
"Steven Cranston of Holland and Holland has been regulating barrels for nearly 20 years, and to my mind knows more about it than anyone else in the world. The 4 shots were at 50 yards after he moved the wedge in the flaming photo. Steve also does the final choke boring for pattern centering of Holland shotguns in order to get it the way the customer wanted his new shotgun to pattern. It is all in the Holland & Holland video titled: " A Look Inside Holland & Holland" which is available at "www.gunmakersrow.co.uk or from Holland & Holland in London and New York shops. I paid $50.00 for my copy 3 years ago. It is a one hour video of all he facets of building Holland & Holland guns and rifles."

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Sabatti report [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #224405 - 28/01/13 09:57 AM

Quote:


Be very careful with any copper remover chemical in a double rifle! Make absolutely sure this stuff dosen't come in contact with the solder joints and not immediately remove it. Anything that desolves copper will desolve lead as well!




Dugaboy

Which is why Graeme Wright and I both tested it on our double rifles before suggesting it to others.

No problems in quite a few years of using it.

The guy who makes it is very good with chemicals
and formulas.

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aromakr
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Reged: 20/04/11
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Re: Sabatti report [Re: 500Nitro]
      #224406 - 28/01/13 10:16 AM

Please note that Mr. Cranston is shooting from the left shoulder!! maybe that will dispell the thought at regulation might be different when swtching from right to left. Plus the forearm is resting directly on the rest!
Bob

Edited by aromakr (28/01/13 10:19 AM)

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bouldersmith
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Re: Sabatti report [Re: aromakr]
      #224418 - 29/01/13 12:27 AM

most wedges seem to go in from the muzzle towards the breech. It is interesting that this one goes from the bottom up.

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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4seventy
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Re: Sabatti report *DELETED* [Re: bouldersmith]
      #224449 - 29/01/13 04:07 PM

Post deleted by 4seventy

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Blazeone
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Reged: 28/12/12
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Loc: Houston, TX
Re: Sabatti report [Re: 4seventy]
      #224457 - 29/01/13 11:51 PM

Thanks for hi jacking this thread. If you guys want to ramble on about regulation and H&H start your own topic thread.

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hunter_angler
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Re: Sabatti report [Re: Blazeone]
      #224458 - 30/01/13 01:20 AM

Blazeone:

I have the same rifle as you in .470 NE. Sabatti apparently uses the same frame for all of its big caliber doubles and as the bore gets bigger the guns get lighter. My .470 balances well but at 9 lb 9 ounces is a little light for caliber. I chose it over the .500 NE partly because of the balance and because at 9 lb 6 ounces I thought the latter would be way too light and hit too hard at both ends. I also like the .470 as the time-proven best all around African caliber. I think elephants are the only reason to go bigger and a good argument for a .577. I don't like the hard factory recoil pad and intend to replace it at some point. Length of pull seems right for me ( I am 6'1") and gun swings and comes to shoulder, with sights lining right up, very naturally.

I haven't shot mine much and this far only at the range, but when I have it has been accurate enough at 50 yards which is what I consider double rifle/dangerous game range. At their price point these rifles are bound to involve compromises but I think they offer good value for the money, with proper (non-dremel) regulation of course.

All the best.

--------------------
Semper Paratus

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
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Re: Sabatti report [Re: Blazeone]
      #224504 - 30/01/13 10:59 AM

Blazeone,
Sorry about high jacking your thread! We really don't mean to do these things, it just happens because we are all interested in regulation of doubles and this is exciting for some of us to find out how the big boys do it. As far as your Sabatti goes, I would suggest that you have a really good recoil pad installed, something like the Kick Eze and forget about the mercury recoil reducer.
The recoil pad will do you more good and won't increase the weight as much. I'm glad you got one of the good ones, some of the earlier ones were said to not be regulated well at all. Bob

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