Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ?

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1
Hatari
.224 member


Reged: 16/12/04
Posts: 48
What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ?
      #22275 - 16/12/04 01:47 AM

Hello all,
I am new to this site, what is the best calibre .500 Jeffery
or .505 gibbs for elephant and buffalo hunting ?
I don't want problem with feeding cartdriges.
Excuse me for mistakes, I am Belgian.
Thank you for the informations ?

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: Hatari]
      #22276 - 16/12/04 04:50 AM

If you are set on a 50, then I'd go for a 500 NE 3" double rifle. However, the .470s are cheaper.

Don't know much about 50 bolt guns. I have seen just about every bolt gun jam during rapid fire events.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
lapsub
.224 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 24
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: Hatari]
      #22281 - 16/12/04 08:02 AM

if you are choosing between just those two, i personally would take the .500 jeffery hands-down over the .505 gibbs

the jeffery was more popular because of its feeding, extraction and muzzle velocity.

then hemingway made the .505 gibbs famous by featuring it in a short story. otherwise it would have been pretty unknown compared to the .500 jeffery IMHO.

you can load the jeffery with 535 gr woodleighs to over 2500 ft/sec with 24" barrel; or a 570 grain to 2350 fps; or a 600 gr to 2250 ft/sec. these loads will flatten anything that walks on land in this era.

i am presently building a .500 jeff on a remington model 30S action.

i looked at the 505 gibbs and rejected it.

if you decide on the gibbs, i would recommend the demoulin imperial magnum action: it has a huge diameter bolt which will handle the gibb's extra-wide case-head diameter. conventional diameter bolts would have too thin a metal lip on the face of the bolt, where the lip it surrounds the base of the cartridge case for controlled-round-feeding.

good luck & good hunting

lapsub

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hatari
.224 member


Reged: 16/12/04
Posts: 48
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: lapsub]
      #22308 - 17/12/04 02:58 AM

Thank you for all the informations
So, according to H. Dumoulin from Belgium, the .500 Jeffery has problem with feeding cartridges in barrel (rebadet rim)the .505 Gibbs has not problem. The .500 Jeffery is just more power that the .505 Gibbs, but it is not significant.
The most important in the situation is that when you are a
little range of the animal (elephant, buffalo, hippo)your
rifle doesn't jam. A possible problem with the .500 Jeffery.
Question, Why not use a double riffle in .500 N.E. ?
We have 2 quickly shots available! with a bolt action is
impossible I think !
At soon.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: Hatari]
      #22309 - 17/12/04 04:09 AM

I also opted for the .500 Jeffrey over the .505 Gibbs. I've had the rifle for 3 years and use it extensively and have never had a problem with feeding or with anything else....it's certainly the most effective calibre I've used on DG.

I'm not a gunsmith, but hopefully some will post their opinions, but I find it hard to believe that any particular calibre round is prone to jamming.......surely that's the fault of a badly designed action?

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
pwm
.300 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 216
Loc: Banana Republik of Germany
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: shakari]
      #22310 - 17/12/04 06:46 AM

If you like to hear the meaning of a gunsmith ask Harald Wolf, i think he would sell his soul for the 500 jeffrey.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Safarischorsch
.275 member


Reged: 28/02/04
Posts: 98
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: shakari]
      #22311 - 17/12/04 07:04 AM

If i had to choose i would take the jeffery(the correct name would be schüler!) too. Good guns dont have problems with it. but in my oppinion the 450 Rigby or Dakota would be better!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: Safarischorsch]
      #22313 - 17/12/04 08:14 AM

The "problem" with feeding of the 500 Jeff rounds from Magazine to Chamber
is because SOME gunsmiths don't know how to build them correctly and don't test them
before handing them over.

The ORIGINAL 500 schuler/Jeff Guns fed fine and worked well - I have a copy of
one and it is fine. I also have an original 505 Gibbs and I have jamed / fumbled that
sometimes and it is not the guns fault !!!

Single Stack magazine in a 500 Jeff helps solve part of the problem.

Re 500 Jeff / 5050 Gibbs - an animal wouldn't be able to tell the difference.
(not that I've ever had a Buffalo turn round and tell me anyway !!!

500 Nitro

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: Hatari]
      #22316 - 17/12/04 09:00 AM

Perhaps, if you were asking the question about original Gibbs and Jeffery rifles, it may be valid to compare feeding efficiency, but since they are very rare rifles, the average shooter is never going be forced to make a decision between the two!.

How other Gunmakers go about the business of achieving reliable feed, in these chamberings (or any other), is anybody's guess.

Ballistically they can be considered clones, so IMO, the only reason to diffentiate between the two is whether you want to build a 500 Jeffery on a standard length action, or use a magnum length action for the Gibbs round.

That, and the ease of 'smithing the single stack feed system for the Jeffery round.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: Hatari]
      #22319 - 17/12/04 10:22 AM

Hatari,
Welcome.


In reply to:

Question, Why not use a double riffle in .500 N.E. ?



Exactly!

With the 500NE you can forget all about rebated rims and single stack magazines and problems with feeding........

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ALF
.275 member


Reged: 21/11/03
Posts: 51
Loc: Out of Africa
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: Safarischorsch]
      #22329 - 17/12/04 05:43 PM

Safarischorsch:

500 Jeffery does not equal 500 Schuler!
Historically likely both derived from Schuler as designer but the earliest Kynoch drawing differs from the earliest Schuler drawing and based on this CIP have accepted the 500 Jeffery as a separate cartridge from the Schuler.

Further: Harald Wolff's 500 is an "improved" cartridge without the rebated rim. Different to the original 500 Jeffery. The Wolff cartridge was designed specifically with the feeding issue of the rebated rim in mind.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Will
.333 member


Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: Hatari]
      #22330 - 17/12/04 07:15 PM

With CZ bringing out a factory .505 Gibbs, there is no question which would be cheaper. But if the market is for a Dumoulin, price is no object.

At least the Gibbs is a well-defined cartridge and as to what a 500 Jeffery really is seems to be a continuous bone of contention.

--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hatari
.224 member


Reged: 16/12/04
Posts: 48
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: ALF]
      #22370 - 18/12/04 06:10 PM

Well, well my friends.
This is a great topic, I see.
So, I konw Harald Wolf(Hatari Times).This is an excelent
Belgian riflemaker, Harald has resolved The problem of the original .500 Jeffery with a new case without rebadet rim.
He has made a rifle with a bolt action and a specific magazin for this news case. One year ago, I saw this rifle, you are surprised by the measurements of the bolt action -
everything very large. I'm sure that the couple rifle and the .500 Jefferey improved are perfects. But! but! Harald
didn't make this specific rifle anymore he has no time with its review. I insisted to buy a rifle but this last one was
reserved by another hunter.
Double rifle or bolt action in cal.500.
Harald Wolf prefers the bolt action ! Why ?
-5 cartridges in the magazin
-more lighter
-more accurate
-more strong
The speed shootins is equal
I can't the experience of Harald, I have no right to judge.
But I know that the principal advantage of double rifle this is to shoot quickly a 2nd cartridge. If the double rifle is too weight, this is a handicap.
At soon.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JefferyDenmark
.300 member


Reged: 10/06/04
Posts: 101
Loc: The Kingdom of Denmark
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: Hatari]
      #22399 - 19/12/04 03:00 PM

If you want a Harald Wolf .500 Jeffery rifle there has been one for sale for very long at this place
http://www.cambodunum-safaris.de/
Price about 6000 Euro
This rifle was made for Tony S Arino But Harald had to make several before geting it right this is one of the ones that Tnoy did not want I guess
Here you can read abopt the Harald Wolf .500 Jeffery imp for Tony Arino Click on the .500 Jeffery Thread.
http://www.hataritimes.com/e/guns.html


Cheers,

André

--------------------
Always always use enough ... GUN

Edited by JefferyDenmark (19/12/04 03:04 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: Hatari]
      #22463 - 21/12/04 04:44 AM

Harry Baelder in Germany also makes really nice 500 Jefferys www.h-baelder.de

You could also check Waffenfabrik Hein www.rifleactions.com as they have announced that they have a new action for the 500 Jeffery. These are the traditional rebated rim versions and there are several other gunmakers who seem to be building these as members who are better informed than I am would tell you.

Best wishes and do post pictures of your rifle here after you buy it. Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Safarischorsch
.275 member


Reged: 28/02/04
Posts: 98
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: ALF]
      #22468 - 21/12/04 06:24 AM

It is of course not the improved one from Harald Wolf...


"1927. The year
1928 already saw the Schüler Company in busines with its
model "Jumbo”. Amongst the international importers were
companies like Charles Heyer & Co., the leading gunshop of
Nairobi / Kenya, Groenefeld & Hicks of Pretoria / South Africa,
Etablissement Janssen, the sporting arms supplier of the
Action details ofone of my .500 Jeffery rifles.
Engravings by Monika Wolf.
Belgian King in Brussels, a company named Hollander in New
York and Maison Didier of Saigon, in the then French Indochina
(Vietnam).
At the same time the world-renowned British firm of W.
J. Jeffery introduced an absolutely identical cartridge, called
the .500 Jeffery rimless. Who came first, Jeffery or Schüler, is
difficult if not impossible to say. Personally I tend to believe that
the .500 rimless is a brainchild of Richard Schüler. Most of the
Jeffery guns and rifles were actually not made by Jeffery himself,
but ordered at other companies. So maybe there was a
cooperation between Schüler and Jeffery planed at an early
stage. However, the .500 Jeffery rifles were definitely not supplied
by Schüler." Text from Harald Wolf:
http://www.hataritimes.com/d/waffen/e_jeffery.html

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
ALF
.275 member


Reged: 21/11/03
Posts: 51
Loc: Out of Africa
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: Safarischorsch]
      #22522 - 22/12/04 05:32 PM

Safarischorch:

If your only source of info is from Hatari times then you are behind on the 500 Jeffery and 500 Schuler.

The original Kynoch drawings and chamber casting of the 500 Jeffery differ to the original 500 Schuler chamber and I will show you how they differ.

There is no doubt that Jefferey's 500 was a Schuler crib but when Jeffery asked Mauser to chamber their 21 rifles and the 3 built for Gibbs their chamber dimensions were different to the Schuler.

So here are the critical dimensions: look at the date on these drawings: This is also the spec accepted by CIP for the 500 Jeffery.



this is an original Schuler drawing:



This is the critical dimensions drawings showing why CIP accepted the 500 Jeffery as different to the Schuler.



So if in doubt:

Here is rifle number 5 of 21 delivered on 9 May 1928 from H leonard & co to Jeffery then sold to Abercrombie & fitch of 7th Ave New york, now residing in my safe



Here is one of the original Fletcher Jamieson 500 Jeffery rounds loaded by Kynoch for Fletcher, he later pulled the bullets with a plier and the marks can be seen on the bullet. This ammo was specially made for the last Jeffery rifle built by Leonard for Jeffery.



This is the first newly made 500 Jeffery ammo made for the 50th commemoration of Land Rover vehicles for the special rifles made to commemorate Land Rover.

It is this ammo batch made to spec from chamber castings from a 500 Jeffery rifle known as the Van der Bijl rifle out of Rhodesia that prompted the reseach that lead to CIP accepting the CIP spec for the Schuler and the 500 Jeffery as being different.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
**DONOTDELETE**





Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: ALF]
      #22527 - 22/12/04 06:13 PM

Great stuff Alf.

It never ceases to amaze me just how few of those rifles were made in 500 J and 505 G

Mike

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
JefferyDenmark
.300 member


Reged: 10/06/04
Posts: 101
Loc: The Kingdom of Denmark
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: ALF]
      #22538 - 23/12/04 01:55 AM

Alf is king

Cheers,

André

--------------------
Always always use enough ... GUN

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: JefferyDenmark]
      #22633 - 25/12/04 09:18 AM

I have owned and shot both, hunted with both, there is no difference to speak of...The 505 can be handloaded to more power than the Jefferys although in factory persuasion the 500 Jefferys was the hottest round. the Gibbs simply has more powder space any way you cut it.

On the contrary, the 505 Gibbs is as easy to make feed as the 500 Jefferys, maybe easier...Neither are a snap, thats for sure when working with a rebated case head, problems can exist, but that has nothing to do with the caliber, it does have everything to do with the gunsmith...

The 500 Jefferys can be built on a std. action, the 505 cannot..

I have never considered either of them a particularly well designed cartridge..

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hatari
.224 member


Reged: 16/12/04
Posts: 48
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: atkinson6]
      #22666 - 25/12/04 09:31 PM

My friend,
I have shooting with a .505 Gbbs, and, my god, I can't quickly shoot than my .416 Rigby. This rifle (.505 gibbs) have not a good balance for me. I reserved this big bore to
shoot a small range elephant or buffalo, but now, I hesitate. Next time, I'll shoot with a double rifle to com-pare the balance.
At soon.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Gibbs505
.333 member


Reged: 09/08/03
Posts: 442
Loc: BC, Canada
Re: What is the best .500 Jeffery or .505 Gibbs ? [Re: Hatari]
      #27378 - 07/03/05 04:14 AM

I have a 505 Gibbs built on a P14 action.

I recantly took it out to the range and had no problem geting two shots off in a row. The magazine is good for ony two rounds, and I got 1" groups at 50 yards no problem.

The main reason for my picking the 505 over the 500 was the disputes of the case and possible feeding problems with the rim!

--------------------
So I can't spell, so what?

Those who beat their swords into ploughshares, will plough for those who don't!

Those who fail to learn from history will be doomed to repeat it

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
1 registered and 185 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:   

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating: ***
Topic views: 9894

You rated this topic a 1.
Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved