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CptCurlAdministrator
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John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130
      #220136 - 24/11/12 10:48 AM

John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130

This is a rare and beautiful little single shot rifle made by John Rigby & Co. in 1880 and chambered in the American round .40-70 Sharps Bottle Neck. The chamber and bore remain in excellent, like new condition.

I give credit for cartridge identification to our Moderator, Huvius and to Buffalo Arms Co.

Hopefully I will be fully equipped to shoot this little dandy in the coming week. I'll report back with results.

The photography is mine, with the exception of the last seven photos of the rifle, which were done by James Julia Inc. for their October auction (in which I was the lucky bidder).

The chamber cast is mine, of course.



































































The next seven photos are by James Julia, Inc. and came from their auction listing:

















Now a photo of my Cerrosafe chamber cast:


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aromakr
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CptCurl]
      #220137 - 24/11/12 11:02 AM

Curl:
What a beautiful little rifle, and a great cartridge. I've loaded many a round for use in my Sharps rifles, that unfortunatly I no longer own. I have maybe 40-50 cases if needed.
Bob


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TH44
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: aromakr]
      #220196 - 25/11/12 12:06 PM

WOW! - Curl you certainly pick them up

Break action single shots are frequently underrated, this rifle proves otherwise

Rose and scroll engraving to this standard is excellent, the bolted lock expected on a rifle of this quality

The calibre is unusual, I would have expected .450/400 2/38 inch with considerable variation at this time, although I am sure you have checked thoroughly

Congratulations on another fine find

TH44


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CowboyCS
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: TH44]
      #220197 - 25/11/12 12:52 PM

What a gem of a rifle. I'd love to pull a set of measurements and a pattern off of it.

Colin

--------------------
The Bill of Rights- Void were prohibited by law
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cowboy
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CowboyCS]
      #220202 - 25/11/12 02:49 PM

Curl,

What a spectacular find! That really is a beautiful rifle in pristine condition.

Jim


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rigbymauser
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: cowboy]
      #220225 - 26/11/12 12:35 AM


I never relly cared much for SS rifles...but now I do..:LOL

Thanks for sharing.


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BillfromOregon
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: rigbymauser]
      #220228 - 26/11/12 01:41 AM

Rigby always gets everything absolutely right, and this rifle is perfection. Congratulations!

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: rigbymauser]
      #220231 - 26/11/12 02:38 AM

Quote:

. . .
The calibre is unusual, I would have expected .450/400 2/38 inch with considerable variation at this time, although I am sure you have checked thoroughly


TH44





I had planned to discuss my path to identifying the chamber when I add information about shooting the rifle in the coming week. Your skepticism sparks me to do it now. Believe me, I shared your skepticism, and even more. Let me take you along the path to discovery. Everyone please forgive me, because this will be a somewhat lengthy post.



BACKGROUND:

This rifle first came to my attention in September 2011 when I saw it listed for sale on the website of Safari Outfitters in New York. At that time I archived the photographs and the verbal description for my records. It was (wrongly) identified as a .450/.400 2-3/8" BPE.

Here are a few of the images from that ad, followed by an image of the verbal description. You can plainly see it is the same rifle (serial number even legible in 3rd photo):













Although I was interested, I wasn't in a position to make an attempt on it at that time. The rifle didn't stay long on the Safari Outfitter's website. I suspect somebody was sorely disappointed upon trying to chamber a .450/.400 2-3/8" cartridge in its chamber.




THE JULIA AUCTION:

I next encountered this rifle listed in the James Julia, Inc. October 2012 auction (from whence it eventually came to me). There it was featured with a much more detailed verbal description and better quality photographs. The Julia photographs are the last seven photos of the rifle in my initial post.

Here is a partial quote of the verbal description:
Quote:

RIGBY TIP-DOWN SINGLE SHOT HAMMER RIFLE. SN 15130. (ca 1881) Cal. 10.15 x 63R. (Serbian Mauser)

This fine rifle in this unusual caliber, which was quite advanced for its day, being the 43 Mauser necked down to 40 caliber, has 28" slightly tapered, ovate bbl, top flat of which is file cut in front of one standing, one folding express rear sight and silver bead front, which is longitudinally dovetailed into soldered-on small ramp. Top flat behind rear sight, is engraved "John Rigby & Co Dublin & London" in Old English script. A sling eye is soldered to bottom of bbl. Breech area is stamped with London proofs, SN, and Rigby RR logo.





When I saw the Julia listing I recognized the rifle as the one I had seen a year earlier. I searched my records and found the photos and description I just posted above.

Malcolm MacGregor is the gent who writes descriptions for Julia's antique firearms. He is a respected authority and quite knowledgeable. So it certainly gained my attention that he identified this .400 rifle as a 10.15x63R Serbian Mauser.

Before the auction I spoke with Mr. MacGregor by phone to discuss this rifle at length. He assured me he was confident in his identification of the chamber and pointed to various dimensions in support of his opinion.




RESEARCH:

Based on that conversation, I set out to research the cartridge.

My first "view" of this strange Serbian military round came from Cartridges of the World:



A Google search gave me some dimensional information for the 10.15x63R Serbian Mauser:











THE RIFLE IS MINE; HANDS-ON INVESTIGATION:

I bid on the rifle, and it became mine. Upon taking delivery the first task was to make a Cerrosafe cast of the chamber and first couple inches of the bore. You have seen this photo:



Here's where the mystery begins. The cast did confirm a groove diameter of .411", but as to all other matters, the cast only raised questions. The first big issue is case length. My cast measures 2-1/4" or 57mm:







Well, right off the bat that rules out the Serbian Mauser round, with its case length of 62.48mm. But it also rules out the .450/.400 2-3/8" BPE. Both cases are clearly too long for this chamber; and besides, the head of the .450/.400 is all wrong.







MORE RESEARCH:

I went back to all the references I have. First I looked for a British cartridge consistent with my chamber cast. None was found. Next I looked for a European cartridge for a match. Nothing! My mind was fixated on English rounds because of the maker, but I was also fixated on European rounds because of Mal MacGregor.

Mal MacGregor opined that the cartridge could be formed from 11.15x60R Mauser brass (.43 Mauser). I got CIP dimensions for that round:










FORMING A CARTRIDGE:

I determined the dimensions of my cast, including rim diameter, head diameter, shoulder diameter, and length to shoulder were very similar, so I decided to try to make one or more cases from this round. I ordered 20 rounds of Bertram's .43 Mauser brass, which arrived in due course.

At this point I anticipated having a set of custom reloading dies made for the round, so my goal was to have one or two fired cases to submit with my chamber cast. Somehow I had to make a .43 Mauser case fit into this chamber.

I went through quite a few gyrations, using many of the various dies I have on hand:
1) Reduce the neck only in a .44-40 sizer;
2) Further reduce the neck only in a .303 Brit. sizer;
3) Reduce the neck still further in a .225 Winchester sizer;
4) Expand the neck using a .450/.400 NE expander;
5) Trim to length;
6) Reduce case body slightly using a .375 H&H sizer

In the end I had a shortened and necked .43 Mauser case that would slip in the chamber. BUT THE DAMN ACTION WOULDN'T QUITE CLOSE!

I discovered that the rim and head protrusion of Bertram's .43 Mauser brass is slightly thicker than the rim called for by my Rigby. It obviously wasn't much, but something needed to be done. I don't have a lathe to take material off the front of the rim, as should be done. So I decided to file the rear of the case head. After a few minutes of filing I had a case on which the rifle would close. Fortunately, the primer pocket was still deep enough to seat a primer flush.

Next I cobbled together a loaded round, using a cast bullet I reduced in size appropriately. I fired it into a dirt bank and had a fired case! I duplicated this effort and ended up with two fired cases.

Here's a lineup:

The cartridges, left to right:
1) Head of Bertram .43 Mauser case;
2) Un-altered Bertram .43 Mauser case;
3) My formed and fired case; and
4) The head of my formed and fired case (notice it is smooth from filing).

So at this point I know I can make brass to work, but I also know it takes a lot of time, effort, and expense. I still want to know what is this chamber!










EPIPHANY AND SALVATION:

Now networking comes to the rescue. I had been lightly corresponding with our member, Huvius, about this rifle and the cartridge mystery. At this point, having actually fired the rifle, I again expressed my profound inability to identify the cartridge and asked if he had any ideas. On November 8 he sent me a PM in which he said:
Quote:

One thought I had was considering the popularity of Rigbys in the US late in the 19th century, could it be possibly chambered for a .40cal American cartridge?
Looks similar to the 40/70 (Winchester or Rem. dont remember...)
There were a bunch of necked 40cal American cartridges back then.




Like I said, I had been fixated on English and European rounds. I hadn't even considered any American rounds. Immediately I pulled Cartridges of the World and found this entry:



This source also lists approximate dimensions, and it looked like I had a match. So I started research for the 40-70 Sharps. I found nothing in the way of standard dimensions, but I did find that Buffalo Arms Co. listed RCBS dies and formed brass for it!









BUFFALO ARMS CO.:

I got Buffalo Arms Co. on the phone and explained my problem. The gent said, "We have a guy here named Seldon who researches these things. He's an expert. People send chamber casts and fired cartridges to him for identification." That afternoon my chamber cast and a fired cartridge were headed out to Sheldon. Several days later he called me and said without a doubt it is the .40-70 Sharps Bottle Neck. I ordered a set of dies and 60 rounds of brass, all of which arrived last Monday. The Buffalo cases are formed from Starline .45-90 cases and appear to be of fine quality.

You can't imagine my excitement when I compared the formed cases from Buffalo to my fire-formed cases. To the eye, an exact match! The Buffalo cases slip right into the chamber. The action closes smoothly and tight!

Here, you take a look and compare them:


My two fired cases are in the center, flanked by two out-of-the-box Buffalo Arms Co. cases on each side, all standing on top of a glorious set of RCBS dies.

So at this point I have brass and dies, but I don't have any properly sized bullets. All the .40 caliber bullets in my inventory are .411". The chamber of this Sharps won't quite accept a bullet of that diameter. I have on order some swaged .399", 330 grains paper patch bullets from Buffalo which should be perfect and which should arrive in a day or so.

My next report will be after firing at the range! Huvius, thanks again!

WAKE UP, IT'S OVER! Thanks for your patience with this loooooong post.

Curl

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DarylS
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CptCurl]
      #220243 - 26/11/12 04:40 AM

Curl, you DOG!!!!!!!!! What a beauty. Bring her up here next year and you can tag along with me and fill my tags - just kidding?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Viking338
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CptCurl]
      #220274 - 26/11/12 02:59 PM

Thank you that was a fascinating and interesting post, not to long at all and my my what a beautiful thing it is. I bet the photo's don't even do it justice, it would be beautiful to hold.

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Jaguarhunter
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: DarylS]
      #220275 - 26/11/12 03:03 PM

Great Article.
Congratulations.

You are an real expert.
:-)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: Jaguarhunter]
      #220276 - 26/11/12 04:08 PM

Interesting to read the process of your cartridge identification.

Lovely rifle too. First doubles, then sub-machine guns, now single shots. When will the horror end!



--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
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Matabele
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: NitroX]
      #220300 - 26/11/12 08:55 PM

Oh my!!! That is just a magnificent rifle, I'd love to own one of those. Great find Cptn, you're a lucky man and thanks for sharing it with us!

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MikeRowe
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: Matabele]
      #220315 - 27/11/12 03:35 AM

Curl

That is great news you have figured it out. Who'd have thought a 40/70 BN?

Now we want diagrams.....


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DarylS
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: MikeRowe]
      #220321 - 27/11/12 04:00 AM

Curl- why do the two center cases have extractor grooves cut? I notice a slightly different shoulder location & shape as well, common with older guns using non-standardized measurements - no problem, of course, since you have dies to push it back when sizing.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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HistoricBore
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: DarylS]
      #220323 - 27/11/12 05:14 AM

Brilliant detective work! Let us all know how it shoots. And how much does it weigh? Six pounds or less??

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: HistoricBore]
      #220326 - 27/11/12 05:48 AM

Daryl,

See the post above:

"My two fired cases are in the center, flanked by two out-of-the-box Buffalo Arms Co. cases on each side, all standing on top of a glorious set of RCBS dies."

The center cases are fire-formed Bertram made from .43 Mauser. The flanking pairs are Starline .45-90 formed to .40-70 by Buffalo Arms Co. just as they came from the box. They fit the rifle perferctly.

They do look good, don't they?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylS
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CptCurl]
      #220333 - 27/11/12 08:11 AM

Yes- they do. Yeah- OK- closer look and the shoulder diameter of the FF cases are slightly larger than the unfired cases and the headspace or angles of the shoulders appear the same, thus the good fit.

Bring it with you when you come up- OK??

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Mike_Bailey
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: DarylS]
      #220362 - 27/11/12 07:47 PM

Fascinating, like a Sherlock Holmes story ! best

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #221199 - 09/12/12 05:18 AM

This morning I have loaded 16 rounds of several "try-out" powder charges. I'm using a 330 grain paper patched bullet that should just be perfect. Within minutes I'm headed to the range to see how it does.

Here are a couple to look at:




Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DORLEAC
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CptCurl]
      #221206 - 09/12/12 06:22 AM

Perfect rifle in perfect hands !
Thank you for the lesson.
DORLEAC
www.dorleac-dorleac.com


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Buchsemann
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CptCurl]
      #221207 - 09/12/12 06:23 AM

Wow Curl that is a stunning little rifle you have there. I smiled reading of your epiphany; it was a time saver for sure. You're obviously doing something right for the planets to have aligned for you on so many occasions. I look forward to reading your account of your time on the range with the little gem.

Mark

--------------------
Happy the man, and happy he alone,
He who can call today his own:
He who, secure within, can say,
Tomorrow do thy worst, for I have lived today.

- John Dryden


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tophet1
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: Buchsemann]
      #221209 - 09/12/12 07:13 AM

St
unning is the word. Also elegant. Congratulations and straight shooting.


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eagleyes
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: tophet1]
      #221214 - 09/12/12 08:58 AM

Very enjoyable read. Thanks for sharing.

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z375
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: eagleyes]
      #221306 - 10/12/12 10:16 PM

Curl,

Congrats on a pretty little stick! I had seen one of these at a dealer here about three years ago in the same condition as yours, poor sod was dead-sure it was a .450/.400 and was quite baffled when I'd told him it looked like a .40 cal but definitely wasn't a .450/.400, not even the 2 7/8" case BPE, much less the 3" or 3.25" version! You should have seen the look on his face when he tried to cram a 3" round into the chamber!!
I remember vaguely that he wanted 15k INR for it, approximately 265 USD given the currency rates today.


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HuviusModerator
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: z375]
      #230538 - 27/05/13 01:17 AM

Curl, any reports on the Rigby?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: Huvius]
      #230601 - 28/05/13 11:47 AM

Huvius,

I have been lax in my shooting for the past year. Many reasons, none of which have relevance here.

Believe it or not, I have a double rifle I acquired some months ago that I have yet to take to the range. I have loaded some ammo, but not yet pulled the trigger. Today I intended to shoot it but was unable to carry out that intent.

Hopefully I can do better.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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HuviusModerator
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CptCurl]
      #230610 - 28/05/13 01:13 PM

No problems Curl. I am in the same boat...
Yesterday, planned on casting some 360gr paper patch bullets for the Gibbs and scarcely got the mold up to temp when I was called away to go to a grad party. Not something you try to squeeze in without a proper allotment of time.
Same with reloading and going to the range.
Just too much life to live and so little time to get to it all...

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.


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Aaron_Little
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: Huvius]
      #240200 - 05/01/14 02:14 PM

Another lovely single shot. Thats an action I would love to remake. The extractor is sure different, Im guessing they did that to reduce action height. Doing an extractor with the rod directly underneath the bore consequently makes you increase barrel dia to allow for adequate chamber wall thickness; resulting in a taller action.

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Michael08TDK@yahoo.com
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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: Aaron_Little]
      #240216 - 06/01/14 12:31 AM

Good point about the extractor. Clearly the use of two rods is to make the action shorter and more compact.

One might fear that the use of two rods would give excessive width to the action, but that's not the case here. Without handling the rifle it is impossible to get a feel for how tiny this action really is. To put that statement into perspective I shot this image, using a very familiar object as a comparative prop.



Remarkable, isn't it?

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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bouldersmith
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CptCurl]
      #240218 - 06/01/14 03:33 AM

a double legged offset extractor stem is actually pretty standard on most break open singles. I have several in the shop like it currently and have seen many others. I can not remember ever seeing one in the center like is typically done on a double. Never say never though. I do like that little rifle curl.
Steve

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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: bouldersmith]
      #240224 - 06/01/14 05:46 AM

That is indeed a lovely rifle Curl! Congratulations on finding it!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: AkMike]
      #298759 - 08/04/17 09:17 PM

Recently I posted a couple of photos of this rifle in another thread. That post led to some questions, so I searched out this thread to bring it back to the top for those who haven't seen this little rifle.

Curl

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DarylS
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CptCurl]
      #298769 - 09/04/17 01:56 AM

Curly - hope you are not having health problems - we are eagerly awaiting shooting results - when available.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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93x64mm
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: DarylS]
      #298782 - 09/04/17 09:14 AM

Beautiful rifle to say the least Capt!
You certainly scored the whole enchilada there mate.
Glad to see that you found the 'real' cartridge & the process that you followed to get there.
Will be a very pleasing finale for you when you finally do the first real group.
A lesson for us all in patience I guess as well - you've waited this long, so should we!


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: 93x64mm]
      #298895 - 12/04/17 08:39 AM

93x64,

Thanks for your kind words. It is a splendid rifle. I have shot it several times, but largely it has been neglected in favor of double rifles.

This spring I plan to have a new rear sight filed up for it, because I don't like where it is printing on paper. I am getting good groups, but low to the sights. Someone must have changed the sights years ago for some purpose. The plan is to have newly regulated sights by late June.

The most recent loads I have fired are genuine black powder loads with paper patched bullets. Earlier loads I tried were nitro-for-black. Both do well, but I must say there is a lot of fun in shooting black powder.

Hopefully I will keep my focus and have more to report after a short visit with a very skilled gunmaker.

Best,
Curl

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Wayne59
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CptCurl]
      #298900 - 12/04/17 11:29 AM

I have been following this thread with great anticipation. That is an awesome gun you have. How low is your gun printing below the sights. I ask this because I had a similar problem with a gun. I solved mine by loading a Duplex load. It was just enough of an increase in velocity to bring it up to the sight. I think it gave it that little extra umph. They say the old Bp was hotter than modern powder. That may be correct. Good luck with your gun.

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DarylS
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: Wayne59]
      #298906 - 12/04/17 12:17 PM

Cpt. C.- iirc, a favourite weight for the .40 calibre Sharps rounds was a 370gr. PP. That bullet would strike higher on the paper due to barrel time & may be what the rifle was sighted for - or even a 400gr. I actually have a hundred or so of these, picked up somewhere- came in a box of junk, probably. Plain base 400gr. .408's, groove lubricated though.

Seems to me, when Mike Venturino went to Africa with a Shiloh .40/70, he took ammo loaded with 400gr. as well.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: DarylS]
      #298929 - 12/04/17 09:04 PM

Wayne59 and Daryl,

Yeah I have given thought to the matters you mention.

I started out with 330 grain PP bullets. They shot low. I figured the easy fix was a 370 grain PP bullet to bring it up. They still shot low. These were with nitro-for-black loads.

My next thought was to try bp loads, thinking the extra recoil and ejected mass of the bp load would bring the muzzle up. That has not worked, either. It may be for the reason stated by Wayne - inferior modern bp. I don't know.

I'm getting good accuracy, just low shot placement. I'm going to have Mike Rowe make a new rear sight. There will be no alteration to the rifle whatsoever, and I will retain the original rear sight. For me, that is the simplest and best solution. I'm going to have Mike regulate the new rear sight for a load of 70 grains Olde Eynsford 2f with a 330 grain PP bullet. The load shoots well and will be dandy in this little rifle.

It will be a little money spent, but the problem will go away without any damage or alteration to the rifle. Problem solved!

I realize there has been quite a time lag from acquiring this rifle until present. Life has been busy. There have been quite a few "new" double rifles drifting into my life during that time period. The little Rigby has languished in the gun safe unattended, but not for lack of love. You folks just don't know how serious my disease is.

Last October I got involved in a really nice single shot stalking rifle competition. I mentioned it here: Stalking Rifle Shoot That event got me interested in single shot rifles once more, and I resolved to hammer out the issues with this little Rigby. So now, six months later, I'm moving forward. Sometimes it takes a "happening" to make something happen.

To put it in perspective, if you think my neglect of this Rigby is deplorable, just consider that I have shot my Fraser .303 only on a few occasions. Fraser .303 That rifle is really dynamite!

Alas, double rifles seem to grab all my time. Yesterday afternoon was spent putting together black powder loads for my H&H .450 hammer double. I haven't even posted a thread about that double rifle, but that's the one I've been shooting lately. I plan to shoot it in the BP cartridge double rifle competition at Friendship, Indiana in June. And then there's the Dickson Round Action .500 3-1/4" BPE. I don't think I've even mentioned that beauty. Too much stimulation!

Curl

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Wayne59
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CptCurl]
      #298958 - 13/04/17 07:12 AM

I have been to Friendship several times in the past. Had a great time. Some friends of mine sent me a pound of Old Eynsford to try. I loaded it in three different cartridge guns. It did not shoot well in any of my guns. The rest of it is lying around here some where.

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DarylS
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: Wayne59]
      #298969 - 13/04/17 09:41 AM

I have read of others getting good accuracy from that powder. as well as with Swiss, the standard now for silhouette shooters.

My own Sharps doesn't care between Swiss or GOEX, however I haven't rung her out to 1,000 meters yet, but will later on this summer.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Wayne59
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: DarylS]
      #298973 - 13/04/17 11:35 AM

I havn't been able to get my hands on any Swiss so have been using Goex. My guns will shoot exceptable with the Goex even though both Goex and Old Enysford are made buy the same company.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: Wayne59]
      #311412 - 01/02/18 02:59 AM

It's past time for an update on this wonderful rifle.

As mentioned above, the rifle shot low with everything I could feed it. Somebody had monkeyed with the rear sight, leaving it filed too low. The existing front sight is so low to the barrel that a new front bead was not an option.

Fortunately we have Mike Rowe. It would be impossible to exaggerate his skills. Mike and I talked about my problem, and he agreed to make a new rear sight. The plan was to drop the rifle off with Mike at the Friendship, Indiana shoot last June and to have it back in time to do some shooting with it and be ready for the stalking rifle shoot in October.

Mike gave me a homework assignment: Load plenty of ammo and fabricate a rear sight blade out of beer can aluminum super-glued to the existing sight. Trim the beer can sight until I get the right elevation on target, and deliver the rifle to him with the beer can sight still glued on. That would give him a benchmark to work from and make his job much faster and easier. I was also told to fire the rifle at 50, 100, and 200 yards so we could know how the bullet flies. This would help with the 200 yard leaf.

I did what I was told, and delivered the rifle to Mike at Friendship along with 40 rounds of ammunition.

My load is:
* 70 gr. of Olde Eynsford 2F, the powder compressed just below the base of the neck;
* a beeswax foundation wad set on the powder;
* a 3/16" thick grease cookie;
* 330 gr. swaged .399" paper patched bullet;
* WLR primer;
* 2.925" OAL.

This load is accurate and does not foul the barrel. It chronographs at 1521 fps.

Here's what they look like:





Actually, the beer can rear sight was much easier to make than I expected. With little effort I sighted the rifle in as I was told to do. I did everything else and carted the rifle to Friendship last June.

Did I mention Mike has one hell of a pair of hands? It wasn't too long before Mike let me know the job was complete. He sent me an email with some photos of the completed rear sight and a 100 yard target.





The sights and 100 yard target looked fine to me!






"Load - Whatever Roscoe had managed to cobble together." Isn't Mike a complementary little Kiwi? - I'll say!

On the phone Mike started instructing me on how he wanted me to fine tune the sights by filing, if necessary. My response, "What if I drive out to Arkansas to pick up the rifle and we shoot it there?" Mike thought a visit would be fun.

Early last August Watson577 and I saddled up and rode to Arkansas for several days of shooting, telling stories, and drinking IPAs in the evenings. The little Rigby was splendid. The 100 yard leaf was perfect. Mike did a little filing on the 200 yard leaf to make it perfect. We had a great time shooting the Rigby and several other rifles every morning.

Here are a few photos from the visit:



Mike at his bench cobbling something together.







At the range shooting his glorious .450 Fraser single shot.





And finally, with an IPA at hand, Mike demonstrates his sure-fire Arkansas method of picking up pussy:






It was a fantastic visit!

When I got home I loaded another big batch of ammo to do some practice and to take to the October match. Here's a 100 yard target I shot last September:




When October rolled around I had a grand time at our Stalking Rifle Match shooting the little Rigby. I didn't set any records, but I had great satisfaction shooting this marvelous little single shot rifle.

Life is good!

Mike, any comments or observations?

Curl

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MikeRowe
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CptCurl]
      #311446 - 01/02/18 12:33 PM

Thank you for posting pictures of your visit to Arkansas, Roscoe.
I had a wonderful time with you and Jim visiting, shooting some very special rifles. We are indeed fortunate fellows. The Rigby is a gorgeous rifle!

I must have been fiddling around with something unimportant at the vise. I use a hammer on the good stuff!

The big Fraser has been busy this past hunting season. She bagged one deer with the .450 No.1 barrel, and one of watson577's lovely 270 grain copper tubed bullets (propelled by black powder, of course);
and a second deer with the 400/360 barrel and a Fraser's Oblique Ratchet Bullet (which worked with smashing effect).

I showed the cat his pictures, and pointed out the fact that millions of people will be able to see his butt. The look he gave me indicated to me that he could not care less. He is a cat, after all.


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DarylS
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: MikeRowe]
      #311460 - 01/02/18 03:55 PM

Good thread from the GET-GO.

Curly, is that low shot always the same # in a 3-shot group?

I'm not sure of the significance of that, just curious - maybe.

Well done with the Frazer, Mike!

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Rothhammer1
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: MikeRowe]
      #311471 - 01/02/18 10:01 PM

Quote:


I showed the cat his pictures, and pointed out the fact that millions of people will be able to see his butt. The look he gave me indicated to me that he could not care less. He is a cat, after all.







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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: Rothhammer1]
      #311488 - 02/02/18 01:41 AM

Cats aside, my Rigby is up and running with a splendid new rear sight by a master.

Thanks Mike!

Curl

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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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tinker
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Re: John Rigby & Co. 40-70 Bottle Neck Single Shot Rifle #15130 [Re: CptCurl]
      #311489 - 02/02/18 02:58 AM

Great looking rifle!

Really nice work from Mike there too.
The cat? My hound would like a date with the cat in the woods...

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"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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