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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns

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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Drilling
      #218630 - 30/10/12 05:48 AM

Need some help from my German and Austrian friends here methinks. With unemployment here now at 37% stuff is coming out of the woodwork. My local gun dealer emailed me last week and I visited his shop today, had a look at a nice pair of AYA No.53 sidelocks in 12 bore, barrels could do with reblacking but otherwise good, problem was stocks were too short, about 13 1/2" LOP but I could have bought the pair for half the cost of a new one I reckon. Here´s where I need help, he also wants to sell a drilling in 16 bore with rifle barrel 8X56, maker P. Kruppscher, serial no. 9712. It is seriously off face so I need to factor repairs into the price, redo the wood etc but bores are good, handled well. It had a really neat fixture, the selector switch on the tang to go to rifle mode automatically flipped up the rear iron sight, something I had never seen before, safety is a Greener type on the left sidelock, can anyone give me any hints. Is the rifle cartridge loaded anymore ? best, Mike

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450_366
.400 member


Reged: 17/01/07
Posts: 1068
Loc: Sweden, west-coast.
Re: Drilling [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #218634 - 30/10/12 06:58 AM

Did you take any pictures?

It dont think Kruppscher is anything other then the steel the barrels are made from. Take a look at the extractor and see if its a rimless one, then it probably chambered for the 8x56ms cartridge.

The sight sound as often seen on Merkel and sauer drillings, they are also sold to gunsmiths and retailers and marked by them, so look for stamps to make out the origin of the rifle.

--------------------
Andreas

"Yeas it kicks like a mule he said, but always remember that its much worse standing on the other end"


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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1641
Loc: Finland
Re: Drilling [Re: 450_366]
      #218638 - 30/10/12 09:33 AM

I suppose that the rifle caliber would be rimmed 8x56 Mannlicher. That´s why because I haven´t ever heard drilling with 8x56 M-S barrel.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26565
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Drilling [Re: Igorrock]
      #218640 - 30/10/12 09:36 AM

Were they not made in 8x56R?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1641
Loc: Finland
Re: Drilling [Re: DarylS]
      #218650 - 30/10/12 04:50 PM

8x56 Mannlicher rimmed and 8x56R is the same caliber, 8x56 Mannlicher Schönauer different.





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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

Edited by CptCurl (11/11/12 12:19 AM)


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Kiwi_bloke
.333 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Drilling [Re: Igorrock]
      #218801 - 01/11/12 05:42 PM

I think we need photos of the action and barrel flats, (in focus), so we can work out what's what. The caliber should be shown something like 8/57mm. I can't see it being the 8x56 Hungarian Mannlicher as this was mostly a military round, in fact, I had one for the Steyr M.1895. I agree that Kruppscher Lauf or the like is probably the maker of the barrels, and the Krupp factory made them for anyone.

You'll also need to consider that many of the German 8mm cartridges were for .318" diameter bullets, not the "normal" .323", so you might need to reload. The good news is that none of these things is insurmountable and components are available. I shoot an 8x57JR Drilling with .318" bullets and it's quite accurate and straight forward to load for, just don't use ordinary 8x57 rimless maximum load data for a rimmed cartridge. The pre-war Drilling is usually chambered for rimmed cases because of it's weak extraction, but post war Drillings made for American markets may be chambered for rimless and, if so, you should see small, spring-loaded pins in the extractor that snaps into the case extractor groove.

The selector that erects the rifle sight has been around since at least 1900, so this doesn't tell us much about age excepting that, as you say, it's a neat feature. It also tells you, (unless you have a scope), that you've selected the rifle when you sight down the barrel rib. So you're less likely to shoot that rabbit with an 8mm when you had a shotgun blast in mind.

The pre-war 16 gauge used to be 2,1/2" (or 65mm)length and, again, these short shells are available, but not at every gun shop all the time. You can load them in an ordinary MEC loader, but you need a cheap spacer and you'll need to trim the cases and use appropriate data and wads. They carry about 1 oz and I dropped a swan with one that fell of the sky like it was electrocuted. If it's a post-war gun and you can see a 16/70 among the proof marks on the barrel flats, you probably have a 2,3/4" chamber. The 65mm chambers were usually not marked. A gunsmith can also measure the chambers and a good one can measure the lands and grooves of the rifle as well.

Drillings are neat guns, but probably not for everyone. But if you can shoot fur and feathers on the same hunt, grab it. Check the ribs (above and below, use a magnifying glass) for fine gaps where they connect with the barrel and then, hold it suspended by the hook, (without foreend) and, if the barrel lightly tapped rings true, you should have a good one.


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Kiwi_bloke
.333 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: Drilling [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #218802 - 01/11/12 05:54 PM

I should add that, if it's seriously off the face, as you say, that could be a deal breaker. I'd send it to a top gunsmith for his opinion and, depending on what he has to say, make the decision. Action hinge pins can be replaced and I did this recently for a Simson side by side. It's now tight-as. Also, I saw today a Holland and Holland side by side of around 1890 vintage that had the front hook packed, possibly by the factory as it looked like a very well done job. But it's not a job I'd ever trust to the local blacksmith who fixes the odd gun.

I saw one break-open gun sold well off the face that, once the auction buyer got an opinion on it afterwards, led to a lot of ill feeling and I think it was eventually returned. Drillings are very expensive in the US, so this gun could be a short cut to a bargain - or not. Do your homework first to avoid surprises.


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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Drilling [Re: Kiwi_bloke]
      #218871 - 02/11/12 08:22 PM

Kiwi Bloke, I can´t hand load, illegal now and since the cartridge will be very difficult to sort I am going to swerve it, thanks for all the input, best, Mike

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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Drilling [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #219086 - 05/11/12 07:39 PM

I´m going to take some pics tommorow and will post, best, Mike

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granhaven
.224 member


Reged: 30/12/08
Posts: 44
Loc: Denmark
Re: Drilling [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #219170 - 07/11/12 12:26 AM

Hi

I have a cuple of Polish Hunting friends with old drillings in this caliber. I have spend endlees hours trying to source loaded ammunition, empty cases, bullets, resizing bullets exchanging old primers.

If it was your grand fathers sidelock something it would make sense, today even if you got it for free it would still be tooooooooo expensive

Peter


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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Drilling [Re: granhaven]
      #219243 - 07/11/12 06:29 PM

Granhaven, I have taken the general info here and given it a swerve. I did a bit of research and I can buy a good drilling second hand in the UK at auction for about 6 or 700 quid with a commercially available rifle chambering, may go that route, thanks all, best

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ellenbr
.300 member


Reged: 25/08/07
Posts: 167
Loc: North Alabama
Re: Drilling [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #224456 - 29/01/13 11:27 PM

Bailey:
Can you elaborate on how hand-loading is illegal, what country and how it came to be?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse


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Well_Well_Well
.333 member


Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 305
Loc: Australia
Re: Drilling [Re: ellenbr]
      #224630 - 02/02/13 11:17 AM

Bump.

I'd like to know how hand loading became illegal too.


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bakposten
.300 member


Reged: 15/05/12
Posts: 108
Loc: Norway
Re: Drilling [Re: Well_Well_Well]
      #224632 - 02/02/13 12:28 PM

I`m curious about that too, I tried to google it, but my knowledge of the Spanish language are non existing.. The only thing I found out was that one person could only have 200 cartridges in his possession at one time. That would be hard, I think I have more in my car..

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