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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Bit of a thumper
      #218478 - 27/10/12 04:48 AM

G'Day Fella's,

I have a near new and uncommon stainless synthetic Ruger M77 MkII factory rifle, in .350 Rem Mag that I can't seem to shift!

As my brain seems to do on a regular basis, I was wondering about possibilities and in the case of this rifle, I was thinking of rebarreling it to .450 Marlin?
The belted .450 Marlin case, has a case head which is the same as a H&H Mag, so I was looking to do a straight rebarrel job on it, just to make this rifle useful to me.

Have any of you blokes had any experience with this cartridge, in a Bolt Action rifle?
My main concern, is about feeding of the cartridge from the mag.

Looking forward to your thoughts/experience.

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: Homer]
      #218488 - 27/10/12 01:48 PM

Oi Homer,

What do you mean that you can't shift it?

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: AkMike]
      #218492 - 27/10/12 02:58 PM

G'Day Fella's,

AK Mike, I mean I can't sell it for the money I want for it!
You interested?

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: Homer]
      #218493 - 27/10/12 03:48 PM

LOL, I don't need another squirrel rifle! That 350 just doesn't sound like any fun!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: AkMike]
      #218507 - 28/10/12 01:23 AM

If you do rebarrel it, Homer- I've a whack of .458 2" data which will actually about duplicate in the .450 Marlin - good stuff.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: DarylS]
      #218516 - 28/10/12 09:57 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Thanks for that Daryl, your the best!
I should have known you would have had some experience, with an even better option!

Daryl, I seem to remember the .458 2", was also know by another handle?
Was it the .458 Barnes or .458 American or......?

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: Homer]
      #218559 - 29/10/12 03:40 AM

.458 American, by Frank C. Barnes, I think. a number of months before P.O. Ackley passed away, we were talking about his 3rd book and he asked for my .458 2" data. I sent it, but the book never materialized before he passed.
The data that was in his #2 book, did not come close to the same velocities in my rifle, even though I had, at that time, a quantity of HiVel#2 powder that was used in the data sent to him for that book.
The long throat in my barrel might have been one reason. I got that first .458 2" in the mid 70's & put over 15,000 rounds through it, along with excellent 'grouse' loads using AL8 powder and 230gr. Speer swaged pistol bullets which actually made 3" groups at 100 yards, but shot to the duplex reticle's lower post at 25. Head shot 34 grouse one fall with that rifle while moose & deer hunting. It was a fun gun to shoot a vast variety of loads in.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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aromakr
.375 member


Reged: 20/04/11
Posts: 849
Loc: Hamilton, Montana
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: DarylS]
      #218566 - 29/10/12 07:38 AM

Daryl:
Too bad you don't live in the states, I have 3 or 4 unopened cans of HiVel#2 that you would be welcome to.
Bob

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: aromakr]
      #218618 - 30/10/12 12:56 AM

HA! - sometimes I feel the same way, Bob, about living South of the 49th.
I did find that H4198 was superior with the lightest bullets, with IMR4320 and H335 being the best for heavier bullets with absolutely full case loads. The H4895 and Varget were too course (too low a specific gravity), thus the case ran out of room.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: DarylS]
      #218658 - 30/10/12 08:10 PM

Quote:

.458 American, by Frank C. Barnes, I think. a number of months before P.O. Ackley passed away, we were talking about his 3rd book and he asked for my .458 2" data. I sent it, but the book never materialized before he passed.

G'Day Fella's,

Daryl, I new you would be up to speed on this!
Man, you really are, a font of knowledge!!!
Yes Daryl, the .458x2", is another option!

Daryl, tell us a bit more about Parker O Ackley and your dealings with him, please.

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: Homer]
      #218666 - 31/10/12 01:15 AM

I called Parker O. Ackley a few times back when I was building a .257 Roberts' IMP - 1976/7. I already had the .458 2" at that time and wanted a gun for coyotes and deer. Of course, I'd had & absorbed his books since 1973 or 74.

He was a nice man and seemed more than willing to take the time to talk to a young man who was interested in the marvelous world of wildcats.

He considered the .257AckIMP and the 7x57AckIMP to be the very best of the improved rounds. He also liked the '06case blown out and necked to +30 rounds, up to .375, giving ballistics way out of proportion to it's case capacity when a shorter neck was used, ie; Brown Whelen style, (or 9.3x62 length).

We only spoke a few times, however I do have some of our written correspondence, filed away with my Elmer Keith letters. I treasure both.

Elmer was the reason I bought my first M29 4" and packed it whilst wearing "the uniform". Funny how these sort of things can have a trickle-down effect. Elmer was instrumental in my buying that handgun, and I talked a friend, also a "member" into buying that same handgun for his Northern duty. When he jammed it into a bank robber's face (still in the getaway car), the guy exclaimed "THAT'S the BIGGEST .38 I've EVER SEEN" - the would-be robber had a bowel 'accident'.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: DarylS]
      #218668 - 31/10/12 01:32 AM

Homer - the .458 2" allowed me to use any magnum brass I wanted. I did, however have to outside turn the 7mm Rem Mag and .300 Win Mag brass necks as they had too-thick neck walls.
.350 Rem. Mag., .338 Win. Mag. and .458 Win, Mag. brass was fine without turning.

The .450 Marlin needs .450 Marlin brass due to the wider belt they designed into the case. It is reported they did this so a .450 Marlin round could not be chambered into a .300 mag and fired, with probably disastrous results.

My chambers and my current reamer has a 3/8" throat. That throat allows the bullets to be seated out, which increases usable case capacity, indeed, it's as if the case was actually 2.375" long, not merely 2".

This is why I easily achieved the ballistics I did. I settled on these good shooting loads - 350gr. at 2,290fps, 400gr. at 2,150fps and 500's at 2,050fps.
Incidently, the same load was used with each bullet weight. Due to the recoil of the 500's, I stayed mostly with old style Barnes 400gr. spitzers at 2,150fps.
Today, I'd probably use 350gr. TSX's at about 2,250fps for everything from deer to griz.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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aromakr
.375 member


Reged: 20/04/11
Posts: 849
Loc: Hamilton, Montana
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: DarylS]
      #218688 - 31/10/12 06:24 AM

Daryl:
I spoke with P.O. on several occasions, too impatient for the snail mail, do regret that now. What a world of knowledge he was. He barreled three rifles for me as I recall. A Martini cadet in a 218 Masburn Bee, and a Hiwall Win and Sharpes Borchart both in a 30/40 Ackley improved Krag's.
At that time of my life I had no respect for Elmer Keith, me being a die in the wool bowhunter. He had written an article stating that bowhunting was inhumane and should be outlawed, had no use for him, but I guess we all have our opinions. I getting off the subject of this thread, sorry!
Bob

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AZDAVE
.275 member


Reged: 12/02/09
Posts: 75
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: aromakr]
      #220713 - 01/12/12 01:11 PM

Homer,
I have a a ruger 77 that I converted to the 450 Marlin, set it up with a peep in the rear, 22in barrel and it is a blast to shoot. I use 458 American load data and it consistently shoots 1 - 1 1/4 inch groups all day long when I do my part. Just a very handy rifle that will work on anything in NA. Enjoy yours if you build it.

Dave

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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: AZDAVE]
      #220826 - 03/12/12 04:59 PM

G'Day Fella's,

AZ Dave, Thank You for your experiences with this rifle/cartridge combo!

I was talking with a mate over the weekend (about the .416 Chatfield-Taylor), and he got me thinking about a .416 or a .404-450 Marlin wildcat? Just for something different???

Decisions, decisions....

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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coll416
.275 member


Reged: 19/02/12
Posts: 82
Loc: Central Queensland
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: Homer]
      #220828 - 03/12/12 06:59 PM

I have plenty of .416 Taylor data if you go that way!

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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: coll416]
      #220834 - 03/12/12 08:59 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Coll416, thank you for that offer, much appreciated!
The .416-CT is a terrific cartridge, and always had a hankerin for one!!!
A bit like the 6.5-06 and.......
I better stop now!

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Bit of a thumper [Re: Homer]
      #220839 - 03/12/12 09:57 PM

Homer - I have an article on the .416/.350 Rem mag. or .400 2"-somewhere - maybe that's what it was called. The 2.1" case of the Marlin would be fine as well, but restrict you to that brass.

Interesting round.

Here it is, by A.O. Winters - the 10.6x51 or.40x2". It seems to be a .416" bullet as he also calls it the .416x2" was designed by necking down .458x2" brass. As I found necking up .350 RemMag. brass for my .458 2" was much better, that is what I'd do.

So - this .416 - he kept the pressures moderate - according to his Powley Comp., under 53,000CUP, which in this case, being so similar to the .45/70, we know that number will be virtually identical to PSI. Actual loading is the only way of determining safe loading practises - of course, as always, start low and work as pressures indicate.
270gr. custom - 2,449fps
300gr. custom - 2,332fps
330gr. custom - 2,211fps
400gr. custom - 1,896fps
At these levels, it would be an easy shooting round.
Due to the chamber shape, 400gr. were deemed to be too long and appeared to use up too of the available much powder space, much like using 500gr. in the .458 2". Much depends on the throat and leade.

A good and fun pig ctg.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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