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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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jaz
.300 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US

20 Bore Irish Double
#218032 - 16/10/12 06:38 AM

Well, I have looked at this rifle for years and decided to go for it. The gun was located in Germany which always makes me a bit nervous as in person inspection s are out.
This one turned out well. It is always interesting that you never know what you are getting until you inspect it.

Edited by CptCurl (12/11/12 12:14 AM)

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jaz
.300 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: jaz]
#218033 - 16/10/12 06:46 AM

So the first thing I did was to try and put a 2.5" cartridge in the chamber... no go.
I did a chamber cast and was very surprised to see it was a very short chamber. Remembering Lancaster's pictures on another post, I saw that in Germany a 40mm length cartridge was used. I believe that is what I have.
The major of the bore is .615 and the minor is .600.
The cast bullets from the mould came in at .615 +/-, 340 grains.
Inside the case, not original but very old it says "2 1/2 drams of Curtis and Harvey with 3/4 oz ball or 1 oz. bullet"
I would be interested to hear what the smokeless equivalent could be. I plan to shoot it this week.
JZ

Edited by CptCurl (12/11/12 12:16 AM)

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MikeRowe
.333 member

Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: jaz]
#218035 - 16/10/12 08:10 AM

That looks like it'll be a handy little rifle. Just in time for hunting season!

The 2 1/2 dram powder charge with a round ball will poleaxe a deer out to 60 yards. Perfect in the woods.

What are the barrel lengths and the weight?

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: MikeRowe]
#218041 - 16/10/12 09:26 AM

Nice:

15 groove, poly-groove barrel - that's pretty cool & in fairly good shape!

68gr. of powder - it will be intersting to see what it takes with the powders you have available, in regards regulation. Ross S. success has been with Swiss powder. I'd certainyt try that, even before GOEX, Guanno or whatever.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TH44
.375 member

Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: MikeRowe]
#218042 - 16/10/12 09:32 AM

Lovely rifle - it is all there - thanks for posting

I personally would stick to Black Powder, it is what the rifle was designed for and the pressure build up is different to nitro

If you must go to nitro, on similar cartridges/ bullets I have used 35 grains 4198 but magnum primers are a must (on your own head be it!!)

I am sure Daryl will give you better advice than me if he sees this thread

Good luck and good hunting

TH44

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TH44
.375 member

Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: TH44]
#218043 - 16/10/12 09:33 AM

Overlapped Daryl's post!!

TH44

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jaz
.300 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: TH44]
#218045 - 16/10/12 10:14 AM

Thanks Gents!
The barrels weight 4.8 oz. and the forend and buttstock 4.7oz.
Daryl - I did speak to Ross, when I asked what powders he said "Black" i Asked any others and he said "Black".... Maybe I should listen.
Just looked and I do have Goex.
I have cork wads and nitro cards. With the short case, it may be just powder, card and case.I do not have a 20 roll crimper yet. The magtech brass could work also.
What type of trajectory do you think??
JZ

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CommandCar
.333 member

Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: jaz]
#218047 - 16/10/12 11:45 AM

Jaz,

If you are in a hurry, I will lend you my 20 bore paradox roll crimper (as long as you return it).

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: CommandCar]
#218051 - 16/10/12 02:28 PM

Nice.

I've been looking at this rifle for years too.
I can't wait to see how you do with it.
Please post photos, chrono results, and targets when you get it running.

If paper or plastic cases fit, don't bother with magtech brass, it'll only be a hassle.

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: jaz]
#218054 - 16/10/12 04:54 PM

Quote:

Thanks Gents!

Just looked and I do have Goex.

What type of trajectory do you think??
JZ

I don't know if you can get enough Goex into that little case to regulate the gun. Goex is fine for muzzlestuffers but usually need to add a tad more for cartridge regulation. At 8+ lbs should be easy on the shoulder.

Rainbow like.

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

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rigbymauser
.400 member

Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: gatsby]
#218070 - 17/10/12 01:22 AM

I too have had a look at that rifle several times on the german homepage. I have been close(tempted) a few times to get it...but decided I need a nice .500 bore double one day instead.

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bouldersmith
.375 member

Reged: 23/03/06
Posts: 627
Loc: Boulder Colorado

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: rigbymauser]
#218071 - 17/10/12 01:31 AM

Glad to hear you bought it. I've been looking at it for years too. A lovely bit of kit. Looks like lots of fun and good whitetail medicine too. If you can not get the velocity you want with Goex, try Swiss, it is a hot form of BP.

--------------------
New website http://www.bertramandco.com

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: gatsby]
#218073 - 17/10/12 02:12 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Thanks Gents!

Just looked and I do have Goex.

What type of trajectory do you think??
JZ

I don't know if you can get enough Goex into that little case to regulate the gun. Goex is fine for muzzlestuffers but usually need to add a tad more for cartridge regulation. At 8+ lbs should be easy on the shoulder.

Rainbow like.

X2

Which is why there is such a difference between the heights of the 50, 100 and 150yard sights. I am rather surprised there is a 150yard sight.

Nevertheless, you'll be able to easily kill deer and black bear with it.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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jaz
.300 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: gatsby]
#218182 - 19/10/12 10:59 AM

Just tried the Goex in the case and there is no room for the ball....
On to Swiss.

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: jaz]
#218183 - 19/10/12 11:28 AM

The modern cases might have too much base wad volume to work out with your chamber length.
If a proper size ball in a plastic case fits into the chamber you'll likely need a necking die for magtech brass in order to achieve any tension and crimp.
The magtech brass would likely fit your powder charge.

Have you seen the thread on my Purdey 20bore?
It runs the same powder charge. I use Swiss 1-1/2F in specially made cases of similar length as yours.
Works great.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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jaz
.300 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: tinker]
#218216 - 20/10/12 12:30 PM

Tinker,
I forgot about it and reread it. Very nice. What type of rifling?
I was going to order brass from RMC, with specific ID to match the bullet. I usually hand taper the last 1/8" of the case for a gentle crimp. I also like to get the makers name head-stamped on the rim.
JZ

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: jaz]
#218217 - 20/10/12 01:38 PM

JAZ-

If that rifle were here (knowing what we know about this limitation via modern commercial 20ga hulls) I'd have it at the lathe making a die for magtech brass right now or sooner!

Do you have a lathe or a good machinist?
The work is simple, and it can get you running far sooner than RMC can ship custom cases.

You should call me.
Same old number.

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Orvar
.300 member

Reged: 31/12/08
Posts: 164
Loc: London, UK

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: tinker]
#218265 - 22/10/12 05:50 AM

Been looking at it for a while, and actually email German 2weeks after you bout it, to take it. Good on you!

Looks great. Happy you took the plunge!

Can't wait to hear how it shoots

Orvar

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: Orvar]
#241692 - 04/02/14 11:04 AM

I wonder how this project turned out.

JAZ, you out there..?

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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AkMike
.416 member

Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: tinker]
#241701 - 04/02/14 02:21 PM

Where is this German website that it was listed on?

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: AkMike]
#241705 - 04/02/14 03:19 PM

Quote:

Where is this German website that it was listed on?

http://www.the-world-in-style.de/wp/?lang=en

Same gent I bought my 461 Gibbs from.

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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AkMike
.416 member

Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: Huvius]
#241709 - 04/02/14 03:41 PM

Wow, they have some very nice rifles there!!
Thank You!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: AkMike]
#241730 - 05/02/14 12:40 AM

Quote:

Wow, they have some very nice rifles there!!
Thank You!

Yes, I really loke that Rodda!

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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jaz
.300 member

Reged: 21/10/05
Posts: 188
Loc: Northeast US

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: Huvius]
#242631 - 18/02/14 01:25 PM

Tinker
Progress has been stalled. I am back on now. I had to get the cases turned and am waiting for them. The RMC cases were much too big. Your right I should have called you!!

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Orvar
.300 member

Reged: 31/12/08
Posts: 164
Loc: London, UK

Re: 20 Bore Irish Double [Re: jaz]
#242862 - 22/02/14 02:15 AM

Can't wait for results - very interesting little rifle!

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