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pato
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Reged: 26/04/05
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Loc: Katherine NT

10,75x57
#217244 - 26/09/12 08:57 PM

10,75x57 will be hear soon have dies ect looking for head stamped cases? photosin 2 weeks

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lancaster
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: pato]
#217254 - 27/09/12 02:12 AM

not on this planet!

original collector cartridges cost a lot over 100 euro for ONE

make cases of 30 06 brass and try to ask Horneber in Germany, he will make it

maybe in 2-3 years, maybe

what is it for a rifle? a Mannlicher Schönauer M 1912, realy?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Oldbrit
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Reged: 04/04/10
Posts: 381
Loc: UK

Re: 10,75x57 [Re: lancaster]
#217260 - 27/09/12 04:09 AM

That's a bit unfair about Horneber, he only took 2 years to deliver my 375 X 2½ brass..... :-(

It's damn good brass.... when you get it.

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DarylS
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: Oldbrit]
#217269 - 27/09/12 09:15 AM

Is there something wrong with using 8 or 7 X 57 brass? How about 9.3x57 cases? The necks of those are thicker than forming from 8x57.
The reason I suggest the 57mm brass, is due to not having to ream the donut off the outside, or from the inside of the formed and shortened brass.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: DarylS]
#217355 - 29/09/12 01:37 PM

my experience with other brass tells me that 8x57 will be much to short, 9,3x57 also. headspace with the 10,75 x57 is critical because of the "shoulder" so the case mouth have to be where its needed in the chamber.
3006 is the most used brass today worldwide

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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kamilaroi
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: lancaster]
#217368 - 29/09/12 04:18 PM

IIRC apart from using 30-06 brass some 9.5 x 57 brass would be preferred as a quick fix as using an expander button the case neck shortens.

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lancaster
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: kamilaroi]
#217372 - 29/09/12 05:26 PM

very practical idea dont you think so?
how much 9,5x56( believe this is what you mean with 9,5x57) do you have on stock?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylS
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: lancaster]
#217379 - 30/09/12 01:05 AM

Quote:

my experience with other brass tells me that 8x57 will be much to short, 9,3x57 also. headspace with the 10,75 x57 is critical because of the "shoulder" so the case mouth have to be where its needed in the chamber.
3006 is the most used brass today worldwide

Lancaster - as with any ctg. you are making brass for, YOU must position the shoulder where it has to be.

With ALL rimmles ctgs. the shoulder postion is critical to the round's headspace. Due to this round's tiny shoulder, there are a LOT of fellows who should not be loading for it.

Yes - when expanding brass, the cases will shorten slightly. If properly formed, necked straight then necked down for proper headspace, the shortening is minimal, perhaps .020" at mose. You cannot simply neck them up and trust that the headspace is correct - it usually isn't. The brass MUST be made to fit the chamber.

There is no problem with using '06 or much better yet, .35 Whelen brass as long as you understand what is required. Neck them straight, then neck them down to properly postion the shoulder. The problem with '06 or Whelen brass comes from the junction of the original case's shoulder and neck. When necked up, it usually leaves a ring of thicker metal at that spot. That "RING" of thicker metal will be positioned in the middle of the neck of the 'new' case. It may or may not screw things up for chambering after a bullet is seated, expanding that ring, but will sometimes effect accuracy.

Starting off with new brass is always a good method, as I did with these .375/06IMPs. Posted to show the method of fitting, then fireforming. The new shoulder is formed to produce a CRUSH fit, virtually negative headspace, in the new chamber. Thus, the case is fireformed perfectly, with a perfect shoulder and no case stretch.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by CptCurl (19/11/12 12:12 AM)

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kamilaroi
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: lancaster]
#217387 - 30/09/12 09:28 AM

Daryl S has the correct advice. Due to nil local supply above 8mm 25 years back I originally used 8 x 57 brass and noted the results. Now we have available a good supply of 9.3 x 57 brass and some old Sellier & Bellot? rounds in 9.5. I defer to Daryl's excellent advice

Quote:

very practical idea dont you think so?
how much 9,5x56( believe this is what you mean with 9,5x57) do you have on stock?

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Rolf
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 402
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: kamilaroi]
#217438 - 01/10/12 08:56 PM

Gentlemen,

I had the luck to obtain last week a Gustav Genschow & Co. AG in 10,75 x 57 on a 98 system basis.

I tried Daryl_S excellent advice about enlarging case diameter with very good results.

As you stated correctly the 8x57 and 9,3x57 are much too short, so I will try & test the cheap Prvi Partisan in 8x60S as basic cartridge cases.

CH dies has a 10,75x57 MANNLICHER die set, my current version of the Quickload ballistic program displays the cartridge dimensions.

bullets:
- Degol makes a fine 300grs SP (almost a rounded flat point)
- of course the Woodleigh 347grs SPRN
- Reichenberg Homogenous Deformation Bullet (HDB)in 280grs
- Delsing ?

best regards
Rolf

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DarylS
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: Rolf]
#217456 - 02/10/12 01:33 AM

Rolf - how much case length are you losing if using 57mm brass? You say, "are much to short" - that means overall case length. I'm curious is all.

To my way of thinking, losing .020" or so is about perfect - you'll never have to trim them to length, just even up the mouths if necessary and have at it.

Here's my 8mm to 9.3mm case changs. Note the first necked up case, is merely a new 8 X 57 case necked up to hold a .366" bullet. Note the difference in height between it's shoulder and the shoulder in the case that actually fits my chamber the fireformed case.

No annealing at any time during this process. Those wo say it cannot be done, have not use the proper equipment or havne't tried it.

I just measured a fireformed case at 2"215". I then checked the OAL "Trim to Length" suggested for an 8X57mm chamber and it's 2.235". That means my brass shortened .020" form the suggested brass length - which is OK by me. It will never need trimming since it didn't stretch at the web when fireformes. Since the rifle continues to shoot into 1/2" or less at 100 meters, I think it's probably OK using that brass. The slightly short necks will not cause the barrel to wear excessively in my nor my daughter's lifetimes.

The dies I use - single pass through lubed 8mm case neck - no annealing necessary. Necking 9.3x57 brass or even 8x57 brass out for the 10.75 should be little different.
The FL die is used to set teh shoulder in the correct postition - by feel. Neck it a bit, then try to chamber - stop placing the new shoulder when it will chamber with 'some' force. When fired, they will extract perfectly formed without stretching.

Use this system with any brass you use so that your shoulders are full size due to being formed by your sizing die.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by CptCurl (19/11/12 12:13 AM)

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: DarylS]
#217461 - 02/10/12 03:32 AM

try it

8x57IS Sellier&Belot case 57,40 mm long

sized in a 9x57 Mauser die 57,17mm long

sized in a 9x5x56 MS die 57,01mm long

sized in a 10,75x57 die ...

as you can imagine the case mouth end at least now lopsided
longest 56,35mm shortest 55,75
in a lot of 100 cases for example some will look better and some look worse

any case under 57,00mm is scrap

I talked once with Mister Triebel http://www.triebel-guntools.de/en/click-here-to-go-back-to-the-startpage/ about the 10,75x57 and he have the opion that this case needs a chamber like for an automatic pistol round so making the headspace with the case mouth. the "shoulder" of the 10,75x57 is more or less worthless.

9,3x57 factory brass will be for my Husqvarna

8x57IS basic

loaded round
7x64 basic

fire formed
30 06

waidmannsheil Rolf for your new rifle, do you know if it comes also from Schweden?
please pics and the serial number

for delsing bullets look here
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=174859&an=0&page=5#Post174859
recommand them like the CH4D die set

if you like I can size you a box 300 grains sierra .429 bullets down to .424 for a first test. the good thing about this pistol bullets is the cylindrical part have the same lenght like the original 10,75 bullet

300 grains speer 50/24 euro
300 grains Sierra 50/15,50euro
350 grains Delsing 50/26 euro

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (19/11/12 12:13 AM)

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DarylS
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: lancaster]
#217508 - 03/10/12 02:05 AM

OK - now I see the length problem due to virtually NO shoulder, not just a very small one, thus no reasonable method of holding proper headspace. I do not acknowledge using the case mouth for headspacing as being reasonable.

Good luck

I'd sell it or re-barrel it into something 'normal'.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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lancaster
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: DarylS]
#217512 - 03/10/12 02:29 AM

Quote:

OK - now I see the length problem due to virtually NO shoulder, not just a very small one, thus no reasonable method of holding proper headspace. I do not acknowledge using the case mouth for headspacing as being reasonable.

Good luck

I'd sell it or re-barrel it into something 'normal'.

good lord, can you realy think about re-barrel

this rifles are rare like hen teeths, they work without problems if you do your part

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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DarylS
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: lancaster]
#217519 - 03/10/12 08:36 AM

Yeah - I could make it work, but prefer to have some vestage of a shoulder for headspacing.
Re-barrled to something FUN, like a 9.3x57IMP. Would have to put the sights on it, if the original had express sights, that is, if no-one wanted to cross my palm with enough denaro for the rifle, that is.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Claydog
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Reged: 17/08/12
Posts: 937
Loc: Katherine, Northern Territory ...

Re: 10,75x57 [Re: DarylS]
#222875 - 04/01/13 02:19 PM

Seeing is believing. 10.75 x 57. Photos speak for them selves. Really nice rifle.

This is what is written under the mount

Edited by Claydog (04/01/13 02:27 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: Claydog]
#222877 - 04/01/13 05:35 PM

finally

thank you very much, this is one of the greatest moments in history!
any doubt about it that this was an original Steyr factory build rifle?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (04/01/13 05:51 PM)

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Claydog
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: lancaster]
#222880 - 04/01/13 05:50 PM

No doubts in my mind or Patos. Numbers match and looks all original other than the mounts. I really like the full rib on the barrel. Look forward to putting a few through it if Pato allows it. He can probably give you more info on it if needed. Two words at a time most likely.

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Igorrock
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Posts: 1650
Loc: Finland

Re: 10,75x57 [Re: Claydog]
#222889 - 04/01/13 08:19 PM

I have never before seen Mannlicher Schönauer with barrel rib so I`m quite sure that this rifle is customized with some very skillfull gunsmith. The stock seems to be re-checkered and repaired with some minor changes, action and barrel re-blued too. Is the scope mount G&H ? Very nice rifle anyway.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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pato
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Reged: 26/04/05
Posts: 212
Loc: Katherine NT

Re: 10,75x57 [Re: Igorrock]
#222897 - 04/01/13 11:44 PM

Your not wrong about the stock, in its recent past (the past 20 years) the butt section was broken into three pieces, held to gather by bolts & sheet metal. Checkering nil,stock finnish nil, bluing nil. Covered in rust, Its had at least 2 other types of scope mounts on it. The bottom half on now is some german thing, the top half plus the scope came off ebay in the last 12 months, and it sort of fits. Clamps on with a type of ratchet teeth. Look closely at stock, wood spliced on the toe, both sides of forend, under scope mount, (replacing sheet metal) wood quite rotten, split again forming a few s few cases, looks like a re stock soon.

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lancaster
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Re: 10,75x57 [Re: pato]
#222903 - 05/01/13 01:08 AM

this rifle is so rare it can look any way

congratulations! do you shoot it?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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pablo_mauser_66
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 80
Loc: Australia, Sydney

Re: 10,75x57 [Re: lancaster]
#222949 - 05/01/13 02:47 PM

Gee Pato you come up with some weird stuff ! but this ole Mannlicher takes the cake !!

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akw
.224 member

Reged: 07/01/13
Posts: 4
Loc: australia

Re: 10,75x57 [Re: pablo_mauser_66]
#223341 - 11/01/13 01:46 AM

Had 10.75. from 1993 or 1994 took me all that time to get it together lent it to pato for a week took him ten minutes to strip it apart, not too impressed about that. Ill get him to send his cogswell .475 double down I will unsolder the ribs take a few photos, post them on the web, On a more serious note had a mannlicher 30/06 full wood one piece stock 24in. barrel. One like it sold in US a few months ago I think around 8000. I was lucky enough to get it stolen.

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CptCurl
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Reged: 01/05/04
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Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: 10,75x57 [Re: Igorrock]
#223353 - 11/01/13 02:24 AM

Quote:

I have never before seen Mannlicher Schönauer with barrel rib so I`m quite sure that this rifle is customized with some very skillfull gunsmith. The stock seems to be re-checkered and repaired with some minor changes, action and barrel re-blued too. Is the scope mount G&H ? Very nice rifle anyway.

A full rib was offered as an option on the Mannlicher Schonauer rifles. I have seen several. A M1903 with full rib recently was listed on GunBroker.com.

Nice rifle!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

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akw
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Reged: 07/01/13
Posts: 4
Loc: australia

Re: 10,75x57 [Re: CptCurl]
#223405 - 11/01/13 05:36 PM

I placed a crypt post re my mannlicher Sno. 674, the one in the photos.If any one missed the crypt, Ive spent all this time and effete to get it together to show some one, sent to pato. for a lend to have a shot out of, for a week or so, next thing i see it on a forum at nitro express, stripped naked, how degrading for the poor old thing, naked as a jaybird. Its my second most prized possession. Ive owned it for the best part of 20 years, took me most of that time to get to gather, Its on its way back, Il guard it a bit better now

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