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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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2Barrels
.224 member


Reged: 23/06/12
Posts: 17
Loc: Moving USA
Intercepting Sears
      #216532 - 11/09/12 04:12 AM

At the moment I have a JP Sauer 12ga SxS being converted to 450/400 NE 3". To try and stave off the craving for this conversion and its completion, I've been doing some reading on various DR options. One subject that caught my attention was that of intercepting sears.

Does anyone know if the J.P. Sauer boxlock SxS shotguns have intercepting sears or how to tell if they do? I seem to recall AKMike mentioning that his Sauer shotgun to 450NE conversion had them. Not sure if these was a feature of the donor or an addition. In the event that the Sauer SxS did not come with intercepting sears, can they be converted or configured for the, and what might one expect to pay for such conversion?

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Intercepting Sears [Re: 2Barrels]
      #216617 - 12/09/12 07:51 AM

Hi 2Barrels,
I don't know if your J P Sauer has intercepting sears, and the only sure way to tell is to remove the stock and take a look at the action internals.
To add intercepting sears to an action which was not originally designed to incorporate them, would be expensive.

Intercepting sears do add a margin of safety if you take a fall and the gun receives a heavy enough knock to release the trigger sear/s.

The gunbuilder who is doing the job of converting your shotgun to double rifle, should be able to tell you if the action has intercepting sears or not.

I think that Heym charges 2 to 3 grand extra for intercepting sears on their SxS double rifles.

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Intercepting Sears [Re: 4seventy]
      #216629 - 12/09/12 12:24 PM

The screws I saw were not for intercepting sears as I was told sometime back. That was an error.
It works fine w/o them and as 470 said there'd be a big cost to add them.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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2Barrels
.224 member


Reged: 23/06/12
Posts: 17
Loc: Moving USA
Re: Intercepting Sears [Re: AkMike]
      #216654 - 13/09/12 03:48 AM

Thanks Mike and 470. I'll shoot Jason an email and have him take look.

FWIW, I found the following post from a while back. As I understand it, the pins (screws) behind the fences and ahead of the stock indicate intercepting sears. If this is true for all of the J.P. Sauers, then my gun should have them, as the pins are visible in the pictures of it that I have.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....amp;Search=true

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Intercepting Sears [Re: 2Barrels]
      #216655 - 13/09/12 03:53 AM


2Barrels

That's good for you then !

Good luck in your objective.

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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: Intercepting Sears [Re: 2Barrels]
      #216657 - 13/09/12 04:10 AM

The German actions such as shown in pictures and talked about here, DO NOT HAVE TRUE INTERCEPTING SEARS, though, in error, they are repeatedly described as such. What they do have, are common sears but hinged at vertical, rather than at horizontal axis, making for far less chance of their falling off the sear notch, bent; firing. As a German so correctly explained:

Sorry,gentlemen, but these are not intercepting or secondary sears! You are looking at Kerner's improved Anson & Deeley lockwork, adopted by nearly all other Suhl gunmakers after WW1. The original A&D sears, mounted in the lower receiver, have the sear notch very close to the fulcrum of the tumblers. So the cocked tumbler applies a lot of pressure to the sear engagement. This pressure requires a deep, solid engagement which in turn makes it difficult to get a light, consistent and safe trigger pull. So the British gunmakers sometimes employed secondary sears to prevent accidents.
The Suhl gunmaker Kerner found a remedy to this problem. He relocated the sears to the top of the action and linked them on a pin in the top of the body, as shown in the photos. The sear engagement notch is now located at the top rear of the tumbler, as far away from the fulcrum as possible. The improved leverage greatly reduces the pressure on the sear engagement, allowing for decent trigger pulls without compromising safety or durability. Secondary, intercepting or safety sears are deemed unnecessary with this arrangement.

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2Barrels
.224 member


Reged: 23/06/12
Posts: 17
Loc: Moving USA
Re: Intercepting Sears [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #216660 - 13/09/12 07:11 AM

DoubleJack,

Thanks for the info/clarification, albeit not what I really wanted to hear.

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Intercepting Sears [Re: 2Barrels]
      #216664 - 13/09/12 11:57 AM

That doesn't mean that the action is any less able to handle the chore! Mine works great.

Jason Who? PM if you don't want to post it here. Just curious.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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doubleriflejack
.333 member


Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: Intercepting Sears [Re: AkMike]
      #216705 - 14/09/12 03:35 AM

2Barrels/AKMike, others,
Bear in mind that intercepting sears, IF functioning correctly, make it virtually impossible for a tumbler to fall to primer, firing the cartridge, UNLESS the trigger is pulled. So, such a rifle with intercepting sears functioning correctly (not locked up by some rust, some gunk, or other problem), cannot fire from shock such as dropping rifle to ground, or shock such as from recoil of first barrel, disengaging the tumbler/sear engagement (bent), unless trigger itself is pulled, because if tumbler/sear does disengage for some reason, without pulling of the trigger, the intercepting sear catches or blocks the tumbler from striking the primer.

Contrasting this intercepting sear system with the aforementioned German modified sear system, it IS possible for the rifle to fire, should the tumbler/sear disengage for some reason other than trigger pull, because it has nothing to intercept the sear should it fall off the tumbler notch (bent), for some reason, BUT that is far less likely to happen with the aforementioned German system, compared with sears hinged traditionally in horizontal position, due to facts so clearly explained by the German contributor. Both systems, the German system, and the intercepting sear system, work great, and are able to handle the chore at hand, UNTIL THEY DON'T, FOR SOME UNFORESEEN REASON, such as wear at link engagement between tumbler/sear--Murphy's law, you know. Just because some mechanical thing works well today, does not mean that it will work well tomorrow.

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