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mickey
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Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Are multi barrel sets worth the bother?
      #21600 - 02/12/04 02:26 PM

After reading the post on the Chapuis or Krieghoffs with muti barrel sets I wonder how many find them handy? I have had limited experiance with them, only two.

The first was a Thys in 600NE w/375 H&H Barrels. A sweet handling 600, if that can be said, but an awkward 375. It actually weighed more as a 375 because of all the extra steel needed for the action width. The 375 was the most accurate Double I have ever seen, a 1.5x6 Ziess and it would shoot inside .5 inch 4 shot groups for anybody. With all the extra barrel weight and stiffnes it was like shooting a Bull Barrel target rifle. 14lbs as a 375 and 11.5 as a 600NE.

The other is a 470 Wilkes with a set of 360#2 barrels. Because of the cartridge size these two barrels weigh within ounces of each other and are hard to tell apart from size and contour. Either set shoots and feels the same. A good handling combination.

I also have a nice little 9.3 and have wondered if getting a set of 20 Gauge barrels would destroy the balance.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
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Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: mickey]
      #21625 - 03/12/04 02:36 AM

In reply to:

a Thys in 600NE w/375 H&H Barrels. A sweet handling 600, if that can be said, but an awkward 375.



In reply to:

I also have a nice little 9.3 and have wondered if getting a set of 20 Gauge barrels would destroy the balance.



The 600NE/ 375 FL is not a well thought out combination. In the first place, The 600NE is not needed for anything on this planet. The spread between the two chamberings is too wide, The same two barrel set on a 450NE, or 470NE/ 375H&H FL, or a set of 12 bore 3" paradox barrels on the 600NE would be a far more senseable, and usefull choice. The 600/375 as you say makes for a very poor handleing double rifle "PERIOD"! On the other hand, the extra set of barrels for the 9.3 chambered for 20 ga 3" makes very good sense. The two don't need to ballance the same way! A shotgun should be light out front, while the rifle needs to be a little more muzzel heavy, and that is exactly what you will get with this combination.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: mickey]
      #21628 - 03/12/04 03:46 AM

It's obviously a comprimise whenever two extremes such as shotgun barrels & rifle barrels on the came action are considered.

On a 470 for example - you need a lot more wood in the butt (especially in butt/surface area) while in a well-balanced, weight-between-the-hands game gun (shotgun) that big stock puts too much weight rearward... and the barrels feel "whippy." There a whole host of other things "ideally" wrong with dynamics of each gun's specific handling characteristics in this scenario.

Now, practically speaking - I think there is a lot of "cool" factor (not sure about how much more convenient it than just reaching for another gun) to opening the oak & leather case, pulling out a set of 12's and swapping them for the 470's while the trackers load your buff, kudu or just taking a break on a slow morning!

There are thousands of dove over there and although I say I want to - I never take the time to shoot them.

If you've got the money, get the shotgun barrels too.

Just don't expect the shotgun barrels to feel like a 20-gauge Dixon round-body... because that just can't be done in the rifle / shotgun combo.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: new_guy]
      #21630 - 03/12/04 07:55 AM

Mickey, I think a better choice for the 9.3 would be a set of cape gun barrels, with a 20ga 3" on the left, and a 9.3X74R on the right, Though the rifle barrel would be thin, it would still be about equal to the shot barrel. The fact is as NEW-GUY says, anything you do is a compromize at best. These "systems" weren't designed to be a "SHIFT ON THE FLY" systems, but are a way of transporting two, or three guns in the case without the inconvenience of haveing to lugg Three cases of rifles and a shot gun through airports all over the world. A 450.400 3" with a set of 9.3X74R barrels, with scope attachment, and a set of 20 ga 3"/ 9.3X74R cape tubes, would be a nice set-up for a rancher in the bush, for day to day business of running a ranch. It would be nice as well for me, on an extended hunt, where I had a day off now, and then, to shoot doves, or to hunt small antilope. None of the barrel sets are going to work as well as the 450/400 3" barrels, but nothing is that general purpose. Like most REAL 4X4 ATVs, they are better when utilized for one purpose instead of the others, but are usefull for all!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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unspellable
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 187
Loc: Iowa
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #21659 - 04/12/04 03:37 AM

A rifle generally wants more drop in the stock than a gun. (The game comes in under the barrel.) Such combos are usually built on the rifle frame and stock and if correctly fitted for the rifle the shot barrels will tend to shoot low.

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foxfire
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Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: mickey]
      #21661 - 04/12/04 04:08 AM

Recently I bought a used multibarrel set. Though I didn't have them in my hands for long here's what I found.

The Krieghoff rifle was build as a Big 5 Classic and so the 470 barrels belong to the gun. The gun seemed tip heavy which Krieghoff says would be corrected by installing the 14 oz recoil reducer in the stock. The 9.3x74R barrels which came with the gun and carry the same serial number balance perfectly and swing fine. It comes up well. Now what will happen to that if the Breako is installed. They said it will still be fine. The gun also had a set of 7x65R barrels an after thought as it has a different serial number. It swings fine maybe a touch light but fine.
My son loved the way that particular set of barrels shouldered. I think if I install the Breako I might have to remove it for this set of barrels or else it might swing like a shotgun not to bad though. It didn't come with nor did I order the shotgun barrels yet but they sure as hell would be cool. Any slight handling problems with them I'll deal with if I like the gun.
I always have liked kits, things packages together to do multiple things. This gun struck my fancy and I liked it. I hope it lives up to my expectations. Time will tell.


--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished

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ThomasEdwards
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Reged: 04/01/04
Posts: 246
Loc: Newport Beach, CA
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: foxfire]
      #21678 - 04/12/04 02:02 PM

...fwiw, i had the hardest time trying to fit an extra set of .20 gauge barrels to my 9.3...a one year wait and two barrels later, the shotgun barrels still misfire on certain ammo...what's worse, given the euro-style rifle stock (which works perfectly on the 9.3), it is nearly impossible to aim the shotgun bead without brusing your cheek...will keep everything 'separate' the next go around...

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Rusty
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Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: mickey]
      #21685 - 05/12/04 12:05 AM

A friend in San Anonio has a Kreighoff 500/416. He has the 20 Ga. barrels. He also has a .375 Flanged set and a set of 7X??R(can't remember) set. He is very happy with his multi set barrels.

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: mickey]
      #22140 - 12/12/04 10:46 AM

My 400-350 NE double has a set of 26 inch 20 g barrels with screw in chokes and while I don't fit the shottie tubes all that often I do like having the option.

It was a shotgun to start with and the rifle barrels were custom made to ballance right without changing the original weight of the action or butstock.
This setup means that no matter whether the rifle barrels or the shottie barrels are fitted, the ballance still feels right with either barrel set.

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Peterb
.333 member


Reged: 07/07/04
Posts: 288
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: 4seventy]
      #22143 - 12/12/04 11:55 AM

My Searcy 470/12Ga will be here before Christmas (God willin), and I'll let you know how well the shotgun balances.

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1408
Loc: United States
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: mickey]
      #22145 - 12/12/04 02:02 PM

I loved my Valmet system and would take either my double trigger receiver or my single selective trigger receiver and the following:

12/12 26" 3"mag with choke tubes

12/9,3x74r or 12/30-06 with scope and Valmet QD mount

9,3/9,3 with scope and QD

30-06/30-06 with scope and QD

All performed well, and I only had one gun permit to aquire...saved me a bunch of $$ in Tanzania! The game scouts thought the 9,3 was a 375 FM, and I did nothing to educate them.

Why the SS trigger??? When hunting birds of opportunity while plains game hunting I would switch the selector to the shotgun barrel. In my excitement at the rise of sandgrouse or Francolin I would occasionaly launch a 9,3 or '06 round with the double trigger receiver. Using the SS trigger receiver set to fire the shotgun first remedied all that.

I also very much like my cape gun/sxs shotgun two barrel set.

I do envy those here who have DR/Shotgun two barrel sets. My ultimate gun would be a big bore DR with sxs shotgun barrels and a cape gun set with a medium bore rifle barrel...QD mounts and appropriate scopes on the DR and cape gun.

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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luv2safari
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Reged: 09/11/03
Posts: 1408
Loc: United States
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: Rusty]
      #22146 - 12/12/04 02:11 PM

...maybe 7X65R...? great round and popular...

--------------------
Hunt with Class and Classics

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butchloc
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: mickey]
      #22472 - 21/12/04 06:51 AM

I like sets with multiple barrels, helps with travels. A word of caution on shotgun barrels on rifle actions. The firing pin on a rifle is more smaller and stronger than a shotgun, and thus you may incurr pierced primers. I have a 9.3 with 20 ga. barrels too. Overcame the problem using by using federal shotshells. They didn't pierce. Sure is handy when you want a ginea fowl or grouse for dinner. Also using buckshot loads for small night cats etc.

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foxfire
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Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: mickey]
      #22622 - 24/12/04 11:56 PM

I can give you a little more info on my multibarreled gun now. I bought it used. After having it restocked left handed and having a Breako recoil reducer installed, I just got it back. I still haven't fired it, but I will by next week.

The gun was built on the "Classic Big Five" for the 470 N.E.
It also came with a 9.3x74R and a 7x65R set of barrels. The three barrels all have Ziess Diavari 1 1/2 - 6 removeable scopes.

The 470 now seems well balanced.It comes up perfectly and sights perfectly without the scope. I'm scared to think about shooting that one with a scope on it, but with the scope on it you have to kind of creep you head up to see it.

The 9.3x74R seems to be a perfect fit. It balances well, maybe a little heavy though. It sights perfectly with open sights or the scope.

The 7x65R starts to become a little different. It's heavy in the butt. The gun has an extra heavy weighted stock bolt to balance the 470 and I added the Breako. It swings light in the tip, but still heavy. The iron sights are almost unuseable. The stock with it's monte carlo cheek piece was designed for the 470. It makes the sight plane to high to see the open sights. It's fine for the scope though.

I purchased this gun with hunting in Africa on my mind. I could take out the Breako when using the 7x65R and I'll never shoot that set of barrels without the scope.

I think all in all it was a great find and a great buy. I like it and any short comings are small and should be overcome with little effort.

When I've fired all three barrels I'll report back again.

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: foxfire]
      #22624 - 25/12/04 12:54 AM

Thanks for that Foxfire.

I have a rifle with a set of 9.3mm barrels and 12 gauge barrels on the way too. Haven't seen it or handled it so will report when it gets here. Will be several months still I think.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
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Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: foxfire]
      #22627 - 25/12/04 07:02 AM

foxfire
I am very curious as to how good your Krieghoff "set" shoots. I think I know where you bought it, as I tried to get a friend of mine to buy it, although I never saw it in the flesh. One of the nice things about the Krieghoff is that you can get extra sets of bbls fitted which make the rifle a great value for the dollar spent as well as a very efficent hunting rig.
I have only shot one Krieghoff,a friends 500/416 and it shot very good.
Some people may talk bad about the "cocking device" but after you use it a while you will like it.
My doubles do not have it but after using a Blaser 93 with the same system I would not have any trouble using a Krieghoff double.
Keep us posted on how she shoots.

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: mickey]
      #22648 - 25/12/04 11:28 AM

Mickey,

In many countries there are limits on the number of guns people can own. In all of these countries, the receiver is classed as the "gun" and spare barrels are considered extras but do not usually require a separate license. That, probably is the reason for multi barrel guns in a modern context.

India allows the ownership of just three guns to an individual (though target shooters are allowed to own more if they participate in ISSF competition but these could only be target guns.) There is also a ban on importing guns that are not meant for competition shooting and many Indians now import Kricos which come with replaceable stocks and barrels that allow them to be used for hunting as well as competition. In other countries where there are 6 guns per person limits and where the importing hunting rifles/shotguns is allowed, this would be a good concept, I guess. Sadly, we are sometimes forced to live with laws we hate.

Best wishes and good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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foxfire
.375 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: NE450No2]
      #22653 - 25/12/04 01:14 PM

NE450No2,
I'll be glad to report back after shooting it. I don't think that will happen until after New Year.

I think one of the best features of owning a Krieghoff set like this is living 2 hours from Krieghoff International. Any questions and or service is quickly responded to and quickly handled.

After playing with the cocking lever (did that come out right) it doesn't seem like I'll have any trouble getting used to it's function.

I'll keep you posted after the first shooting session.

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished

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foxfire
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Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: NE450No2]
      #22788 - 29/12/04 08:27 AM

NE450No2,
Well I took the day off. We had snow on the ground and it's cold as heck, but I wanted to shoot my new double today. Off to the indoor 25 yard range. I know it's not a good example but I wanted to shoot it.

The 7x65R first. I don't yet have the same ammo as the factory sighted in with but I had to try what I had. 5 rounds from the right barrel in 5/8" and 5 from the left in 1 1/2" total between the 2 barrels 2 1/2". I hope to close them up with other ammo. This set of barrels is scoped. Also at 25 yards the left barrel crossed the right barrel. I ordered the proper ammo and another test will be soon.

The 9.3x74R is the sweetest shooting set of barrels and caliber yet. 4 rounds from the right barrel in 5/8" all touching and 4 from the left barrel in 3/4" all touching between the 2 barrels 1 1/4". This was the proper ammo for this set of barrels. This is also a scoped set of barrels. This one impressed me.

The 470 NE. open sights. The first 2 shots don't count. I've never fired a 470 so I had my eyes closed.
2 from the left barrel 2 from the right barrel open sights from the bench. All four rounds in 2". I had the proper ammo and on this one the barrels didn't come close to crossing.

I had the mercury Breako installed when the stock was changed. The 7x65R and the 9.3x74R were both a pleasure to shoot. The 470 was not as bad as expected and I was able to shoot it well for sighting in purposes.

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: foxfire]
      #22789 - 29/12/04 08:50 AM

foxfire
Sounds like you have a fine shooting rifle.
You have the perfect set up, a light, a medium, and a heavy set of bbls. There is nothing on the planet you cannot hunt with that rifle.
I assume you are shooting your groups right bbl/left bbl, right bbl/left bbl/ etc.
When you get the guns to an outdoor range and get everything "lined up proper" try the 7x65R and the 9,3x74R at 200 and 300 yards. You just might be plesantly suprized.
Keep us posted.

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foxfire
.375 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: NE450No2]
      #26744 - 24/02/05 11:12 AM

My son and I went to the range today.
I now intended to sight in the 7x65R @ 100yards. After a couple of 2 shot groups, right barrel then the left barrel. It appeared the left barrel crossed the right barrel and separated by about 4" at 100 yards. The gun was regulated iron sights and right hand stock. It now sports a left hand stock and a Ziess scope. I turned the adjustable wedge half a turn counter clockwise and actually saw the barrels separate. After the next firing the right and left barrel shoot to the same vertical line except the right barrel is about 1.5" higher than the left barrel. The two five shot groups were 1.5" apart vertically in the same horizontal plane. I was impressed that I could move the bullets to not cross and now it shoots fine. I think I'll tinker with it to see if I can't move the vertical separation a little closer together. All in all I liked the results today and had a great day.

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished

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NE450No2
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Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: foxfire]
      #26759 - 24/02/05 03:27 PM

foxfire
Looks like you are getting good results.
Your 3 bbl set has 3 of the best calibers on the Planet.

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mstarling
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Reged: 07/01/04
Posts: 37
Loc: West Virginia, USA
Re: Are multi barrel sets worth the bother? [Re: NE450No2]
      #26802 - 25/02/05 03:58 AM

My scoped 9.3x94R Chapuis came into life with a set of 20 gauge 3" barrels. This has been a wonderful combination for bird hunting while on trips for other game.

I heartily recommend it!

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