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JohnTheGreek
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Egyptian royal ambition.
      #213822 - 01/08/12 03:06 AM

Prince (ultimately Sultan) Kamal, the uncle of King Farouk of Egypt, sent this H&H back to the manufacturer to add more leaves...taking the weapon out to a theoretical 800 yards. Just the thing for Dorcas Gazelle in the wide open desert? A royal ego? Tough to say! Anyone else have more information on this weapon or others from the MENA region?



Edited by JohnTheGreek (01/08/12 06:12 AM)


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Egyptian royal ambition. [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #213828 - 01/08/12 04:23 AM

do you mean Prince Kemal al Dine?
if so I had a little bit about him some time ago
http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....e=0&fpart=2

Almasy called him a very serious hunter and gentleman

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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JohnTheGreek
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Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: Egyptian royal ambition. [Re: lancaster]
      #213837 - 01/08/12 06:06 AM

If I am reading the family tree correctly, Farouk's father only had two half brothers......Hossein Kamel and Tawfik Pasha. Farouks father Fuad I gained the throne when the son of Hossein Kamel (the above referenced Kamal el din?) refused the throne on his fathers death in 1917. I suppose the weapon likely belonged to both of them. If it did, it might explain how Kamal el din got the idea to regulate those MS sights out to 2000 yards in the link above.

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Yochanan
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Reged: 26/01/03
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Re: Egyptian royal ambition. [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #213867 - 01/08/12 08:34 PM

John,

Long time no hear. Which cartridge is this Dorcas gazelle rifle chambered for? A Dorcas gazelle stands approximately 55-65 cm, a weight of 15-20 kilo. 800 yards is an awfully long distance...

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.


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JohnTheGreek
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Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: Egyptian royal ambition. [Re: Yochanan]
      #213868 - 01/08/12 09:36 PM

Hello! Unfortunately, the calibre is unknown to me. Yes 800 yards is along way for such a small creature but I can definitely imagine such shots being taken back then. The reason shorter shots are taken today is because the Gazelle is often chased with a vehicle until it is less likely to run....and then shot at a shorter distance. I actually have a pair of RW quality Eritrean Gazelle pick up skulls that I found in the southeastern desert near the Sudan border. So wish I were allowed to hunt them.

Edited by JohnTheGreek (01/08/12 09:37 PM)


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Egyptian royal ambition. [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #213899 - 02/08/12 04:09 AM

Ha ha, leaves to 800 yards. My .450 only has leaves to 500 yards ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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lancaster
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Re: Egyptian royal ambition. [Re: NitroX]
      #213910 - 02/08/12 04:48 AM

ok, I think its Kemal or Kamal al Dine - you know its not realy important in arab

realy interesting person with lots of character who dont want a crown if he had to be the clown of the british empire

Prince Kamal el Dine Hussein (Arabic: كمال الدين حسين‎) (20 December 1874 – 6 August 1932) was the son of Sultan Hussein Kamel of Egypt.

Several otherwise reliable sources mistakenly assert that Kamal el Dine Hussein held the position of heir during his father's three-year reign.[1] In reality, Hussein Kamel had agreed with the British government upon his ascension to the throne to postpone the establishment of new rules of succession for the sultanate, meaning that the position of heir to the throne remained vacant. The succession issue was discussed between Hussein Kamel and British High Commissioner Henry McMahon in May 1915 in the wake of the failed assassination attempt against the sultan. Hussein Kamel preferred to be succeeded by his son Kamal el Dine, but also recommended his half-brother Ahmed Fouad and his cousin Youssef Kamal in case Kamal el Dine was unwilling to assume the position of heir.[2] For his part, Kamal el Dine wrote a letter to his father in which he expressly and voluntarily renounced the succession.[3] This was the only time in Egyptian history that an eligible heir gave up his rights to the throne of his own free will.[2]

On 21 September 1917, three weeks before Hussein Kamel's death, the British chose Ahmed Fouad as his successor. However, they first requested that Kamal el Dine make a formal renunciation of the throne, in order for the United Kingdom not to appear in the eyes of the Egyptian public as having deprived him of his legitimate rights. Although there were rumours that Kamel el Dine had declined the succession under the influence of his wife Nimet Allah (who did not recognize the legitimacy of her brother Abbas Hilmi II's dethronement), most historians explain his decision by his unwillingness to reign under a British protectorate which he strongly opposed.[2] Others give more mundane reasons, pointing out that the prince asked to be relieved of responsibility in order to be able to pursue an exciting life of discovery and travel.[4] Kamal el Dine Hussein was indeed an avid explorer, traveler and collector of oriental antiquities and works of art. In 1925 and 1926 he led expeditions to the Gilf Kebir, which he named.[5]

A famous reference to Kamal el Dine Hussein occurs in the opening pages of Nobel laureate Naguib Mahfouz's novel Palace Walk (1956), where one of the protagonists states: "What a fine man Prince Kamal al-Din Husayn is! Do you know what he did? He refused to ascend the throne of his late father so long as the British are in charge."[6]

A dedicated rock monument was erected at the Southwest corner of the Egyptian Western desert to commoretae Prince Kamal el Dine explorations. At the time, the Egyptian Western desert was commonly referred to as the Libyan sahara.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Kamal_el_Dine_Hussein

I think this is our man














get the number of the mauser rifle and ask H&H for more informations


btw, have you pics about egyptian wildlife?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (02/12/12 12:37 AM)


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Egyptian royal ambition. [Re: lancaster]
      #213912 - 02/08/12 04:57 AM

btw, Prince Kemal was educated at the Theresianische Militärakademie in Wiener Neustadt as a young man
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Kamal_el_Dine_Hussein
what was maybe one of the reason he became the protector of Ladislaus Almásy later. its something that connect, Almásy may have spend a short time there in WW 1 also.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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DarylS
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Re: Egyptian royal ambition. *DELETED* *DELETED* [Re: lancaster]
      #213923 - 02/08/12 07:05 AM

Post deleted by Daryl_S

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Egyptian royal ambition. [Re: DarylS]
      #213942 - 02/08/12 07:28 PM

That is very interesting.

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JohnTheGreek
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Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: Egyptian royal ambition. [Re: lancaster]
      #213968 - 03/08/12 12:52 AM

These are the three that I want to hunt most....Eritrean Gazelle, Nubian Ibex, and Barbary Sheep. Nile Croc on Lake Nasser would also be fun.









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMpdSyPw77E

Edited by CptCurl (02/12/12 12:38 AM)


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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Egyptian royal ambition. [Re: JohnTheGreek]
      #213979 - 03/08/12 04:51 AM

I am agree, this trophy's are worth 10 times or more than anything from east or south africa.

the barbery shep can be hunted again in chad http://www.huntingreport.com/hunting_article_details.cfm?id=686



nile croc on lake nasser could be a top hunting trip. make the tour from Luxor to Assuan with a ship and start the hunt than with a smaller boat.
have read about attacks on fishermann and they offer croco baby's in Assuan what may be not legal but...

there is another video when open your link about fishing and the guy standing in the water to catch his fish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NSb4VcSVdU&feature=related
something I will never did in any water with rumour's about croc's only for sure

do you see that there is some movement into legal hunting? and what become with bird hunting in egypt. before ther last war it was famous.

come back to the rifle
where is it, who own it? do you have more pics?

the mannlicher schönauer was offered in switzerland for +/- 4500euro starting bid but did not sold than iirc

looking at the rifle I thinking the price was right.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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JohnTheGreek
.300 member


Reged: 16/11/04
Posts: 167
Loc: Cairo, Egypt
Re: Egyptian royal ambition. [Re: lancaster]
      #213984 - 03/08/12 06:24 AM

Bird hunting in Egypt faded to only very expensive private clubs a few years back when the bird flu hit. I was fortunate to get in two good trips before this happened. There are rumors of a guy offering hunts in the fayoum oasis again but he is not communicating regularly so i don't know how serious he is. Egypt actually now has a CITES quota on croc but I think it is being used for the commercial leather industry. I have fished on the lake and those crocs are very careful. I have seen two that probably measured around 10-11 feet and they stayed well out of easy rifle range and disappeared. I spent a good portion of time in chest deep water trying to cast to the best spot.....maybe I am stupid, but i also took quick baths. Also recall that the lake is HUGE. If someone wanted a really great croc, I think booking 14 days is probably.necessary. Legal hunting is....let's just say....a work in progress and has been for a few years. The revolution obviously delayed things substantially. I trust though that someday I will have an Ibex in my sights.

As for the rifle I have no more info. 4500 is a bit steep for that MS......but somewhere there is a student of history who would pay that and perhaps a good bit more.

JMHO


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