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JPaul
.224 member


Reged: 21/11/04
Posts: 6
Loc: California, USA
Krieghoff express sights
      #21049 - 21/11/04 09:53 AM

Hello everyone, I am new to the forum and was wondering if any of you Krieghoff owners had ordered the optional express sights with the 2 folding leaves and the folding front moon sight? have you found them to be useful?

thanks

john


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: JPaul]
      #21051 - 21/11/04 02:32 PM

JPaul

First, Welcome to NE.

I'm not a Krieghoff owner but I have found the multiple leaf Express Sites unneccesary. They may look traditional but as a practical matter they are useless. They are not necessarily regulated and two and three hundred yard sites are not needed on Big Bore rifles.

The moon site is very neat though. It is particularly useful to 'old' eyes.



--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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JPaul
.224 member


Reged: 21/11/04
Posts: 6
Loc: California, USA
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: mickey]
      #21053 - 21/11/04 03:38 PM

Micky

thanks for your reply. I agree the 2-300 yard leaves are pretty much useless on modern rifles, however I was told that the standing and 2 folding were laid out in the follwing fashion by a K.Int rep


standing with regular front sight, sighted at about 80 meters

1st folding with flip up moon sight, sighted at about 50 meters

2nd folding left un sighted for future use by the customer,
( whatever that means)

to me this sounds to be a reasonable setup?? however the asking price for this option is $600 plus. looks good though
I really like the centerlines in gold fill, should last better than the white paint that comes on the standard sight, also I cannot get over that straight up and down blade that comes standard just looks awkard to me.

You know I have always wondered about the old guard British
makers and those leaves marked all the way out to 500 yards in some cases. Surely they were regulated were they not??
If you held the rifle perfectly steady and had the front sight just so alighned with the rear sightwith the proper leaveand the bullet would hit the target within a given load. Was not labor so cheap compared to the cost of the firearms that the time necessary to "regulate the sights"
was really nothing,and they did it with bolt actions, singles, bolts, rook rifles ect. I do not know but I just wonder.

JP


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AussieMike
.300 member


Reged: 01/09/04
Posts: 236
Loc: Southern Tablelands, NSW, Aust...
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: JPaul]
      #21065 - 21/11/04 07:12 PM

I wondered about the 500yd leaf on my 470 but then decided that if I was out on the veldt between the wars and met a group of people who wished me harm, then being able to lob 500gn projectiles at about the right elevation and in around the right direction might be very useful.

Considering the poaching problem in some areas it could still be useful today.

mike


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JPaul
.224 member


Reged: 21/11/04
Posts: 6
Loc: California, USA
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: AussieMike]
      #21080 - 22/11/04 02:46 AM

Hey Mike,

you have a very interesting view on the subject, never really thought about using " volley " fire but you are right, it could prove useful


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JPaul
.224 member


Reged: 21/11/04
Posts: 6
Loc: California, USA
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: JPaul]
      #21108 - 22/11/04 02:33 PM

Where are all the Krieghoff owners?

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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: JPaul]
      #21113 - 22/11/04 04:13 PM

JPaul:

Spring for the upgrade, and be sure to specify a bead size that you're comfortable with. My hunting partner bought a Krieghoff in .500/.416 several years ago, a standard model with what he was assured were the standard sights. After a trip to the range with it, he was so disgusted that he sent it to me to try.

The problem was the sights. The front bead was the largest I've ever seen on a rifle. OK for 25 yards, too coarse for any precision at 50, and every shot at 100 was a Hail Mary. I've seen smaller beads on new Krieghoffs since then, so they may not be fitting this one as standard any more. I hope not.

I also found the standing vertical rear bar to be a problem. The top surface of the V was filed flat which caused enough glare to fuzz out half of the Idaho baking potato bead, making it difficult to hold elevation. Small wonder that accuracy was poor. He sent it back for the sight upgrade (with a new bead a third the size of the original) and the rifle turned out to be superbly accurate.

The value in the upgraded sights is a much improved standing rear bar and a folding moon bead (and the folding leaves LOOK neat don't they?). The rear bar is of better shape and slopes forward as it should. My only complaint is that the center wire is of gold rather than platinum. For my eyes platinum shows up better in low light, especially with a moon bead. Way better than the standard rear sight though. I have moon beads on a couple of my English doubles and have always found them quite useful, especially when hunting in thick stuff in low light. Were I ordering a Krieghoff, I'd spend the money for the upgrade.
---------------------------------------



--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #21185 - 23/11/04 09:01 AM

" and be sure to specify a bead size that you're comfortable with. "

I don't own a krieghoff, but seem to remember that they use the recknagle front sights... is that correct?

If so, they are available from New England Custom Guns in a variety of shapes, sizes and flavors.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com


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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: new_guy]
      #21197 - 23/11/04 11:20 AM

New Guy:

No, the heavy calibers are fitted with express sights - a round bead front and a wide V rear. The upgraded sights are also of the express type. The light and medium calibers come with the typical German sights - a U-notch rear and a sourdough (square topped post) front, which is what you're thinking of.
----------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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JPaul
.224 member


Reged: 21/11/04
Posts: 6
Loc: California, USA
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #21257 - 24/11/04 07:31 AM

400NE

thanks for the advice, I am still in the planning stages at the moment, but I think when I can I will order a Kriegoff
I am one of those people who think that the cocking system is a good idea and I have even read a article some years back that PH Fred Duckworth uses one and commented that he likes it very much. I was thinking about a completely matte blued model, I dislike rifles that act like a mirror when outdoors, with absolutely no engraving and the only options would be a steel gripcap and the express sights. I still have time to ponder over it though. If it is not too bold might I ask, would your friend do it all over again in choosing the krieghoff. or would he now choose a different manufacturer?

JP


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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: JPaul]
      #21259 - 24/11/04 08:01 AM

JPaul
I do not like "silver" recievers on double rifles either. I have seen one Krieghoff that had a blued reciever it looked good and one that had an English style case colored reciever, it looked VERY nice.


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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: JPaul]
      #21266 - 24/11/04 10:42 AM

JPaul:

I'm sure that if something happened to his rifle he would get another Krieghoff.

He bought it as an off-the-rack .500/.416 and added 20 gauge barrels. Then he added .375 Flanged Magnum barrels with detachable mounts. The rifle is due back from Germany any day - with the new 7X65R barrels. I'd say he has a thing for it. He did the opposite from what you would though, he had the blued parts (safety lever, maybe the fore-end iron, I can't remember) refinished to match the silver nitrate receiver. He shoots the hell out of it. I've shot it quite a bit myself.

There's no explaining matters of taste - which is why there are so many gunmakers. To be honest, the Krieghoff just isn't my cup of tea. Personally, I intensely dislike the Kriegoff safety and have deep misgivings about how safe it really is. The safety aside, I'm not fond of the aesthetics or the handling dynamics. To be fair though, it strikes me as a sound, rugged rifle. The accuracy of the .416 and .375 barrels is simply beyond criticism and that is the acid test of any double rifle. If you can get along with the safety and like the way it feels, I'm sure that it will give you good service.
-------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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JPaul
.224 member


Reged: 21/11/04
Posts: 6
Loc: California, USA
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #21281 - 24/11/04 02:36 PM

NE450No2

thanks for your input also. I must say that even the case coloring of steel does not realy appeal to me, as over time the colors seem to fade and the reciever turns to that silver color, at least with the blue job, I think that every few years along with a major cleaning and adjustment just re-blue the whole thing over again as condition warrants.

400NE

that is one of the reasons that I am leaning to the krieghoff system is that very versatility that your friend obviously must appreciate with all the options that he has available to him with the multi BBL set. I do not really see the safety as an issue as this will most likely be my only double, I will learn to get used to the system. However, I can see your point that it may not be a totally proven design compared to the tried and trusted British design and manufacturing. I also like the availability of all the smaller calibers not just the large bores. I am not sure about the whole scope issue on the double rifle as both sides, in my opinion make very valid points. The multi BBL set also seems the way to go, with ever shrinking allowances on how many firearms a person may bring or that the cost per firearm will continue to rise in the future, weight allowances or just allowing 2 rifles period( Zambia I think??) ect. ect. Your friends kit sounds perfect, a big bore, a scoped medium and a shotgun( I did not know about the shotgun option) it sounds like a winner.
I agree with you on the style a fit issues. To me the rifles that Norbert @ krieghoff let me try fit very well but for others it could be absolutely atrocious, personal preferences can be very interesting. I guess that is why we do not all chase the same kind of women. I am beginning to believe that double rifles are a lot like women though, in that once you find one you like they will indeed put a spell on you.

best regards

JP


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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: JPaul]
      #21288 - 24/11/04 06:37 PM

JPaul:

Yep, they're a hell of a lot like women. Likes and dislikes about double rifles seem to be pretty intense. One man's ideal is another's poison.

After reading your last post I'm more sanguine that you're on the right track. If your only double will be the K, you won't have as much trouble getting used to it as I have. I bought my double rifles back when pre-war English was pretty much it, so that is what I'm used to. The new stuff feels downright alien to me. Since you don't have that bias, you'll be fine.

If you put high value the versatility of multiple barrel sets, the Krieghoff is the best choice that I'm aware of. As I previously indicated, my friend's rifle didn't come as a multi-barrel set. The extra barrels have all been retrofitted, with the exception of the new 7X65R set, at the Krieghoff USA facility in Pennsylvania. The prices have been damned reasonable and the workmanship fine.

The first extra set of rifle barrels was in 7X65R. We shot factory ammo plus a host of handloads through 'em, but our best 100 yard groups, with the scope, were larger than the .500/.416 groups at 100 with express sights. By typical double rifle standards the accuracy was acceptable, but not good enough for what he had in mind for a light rifle. Norbert looked over the targets, agreed that the accuracy was not up to Krieghoff standards and took the barrels back, just like that. At this point my buddy, who is rather compulsive, changed his mind about the caliber and had Norbert fit a new set of .375 Flanged Magnum barrels. Woodleigh 300 grain over H-414 shoot into 1 1/2" or less at 100 with the scope.

A year or so later, he changed his mind again. After talking it over, Norbert agreed to guarantee the accuracy standard that my friend had in mind for the 7X65R barrels - provided that the rifle was returned to Germany for this set. They're done and the rifle is in transit, so we'll soon see. After having three new barrel sets retrofitted (actually four) over three years time, he still gets along well with Norbert , so I guess customer service must be pretty good.

If you decide to have a scope fitted, Krieghoff offers their pivot mount or a claw mount for $300 extra. Kriegoff pushes their pivot mount hard - they're almost militant about it. The claw is much superior and worth the extra money.
-------------------------------------


--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."


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k80
.333 member


Reged: 07/05/04
Posts: 314
Loc: San Antonio ,Texas, U.S.A.
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: JPaul]
      #21347 - 26/11/04 01:52 PM

I went with the see through sight.
I have trouble seeing regular sights.
I can line up the orange front and
rear orange post,quickly. I have the
375 rimless. I have had no problem
with extraction.

Ken
San Antonio


--------------------
Ken
San Antonio

Welcome to South Texas


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500NE
.224 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 14
Loc: Vienna, Austria
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: JPaul]
      #21567 - 02/12/04 12:04 AM

Hi John,

> Where are all the Krieghoff owners?
Out on the range, practicing with their toys! :-)

I have mine (a 500NE 3") fitted with the express sights, (I simply couldn't resist the classic touch).

I agree with some others here that the folding blades on a caliber like the 500NE (and similar) are of questionable use.
(Although I have been told by a fellow african hunter that he took an expectional impala with his 470 krieghoff at ~ 150yrs when the opportunity arose, using the 2nd blade and holding a little high. I still have to try mine at longer distances)

The large flip-up moon sight is an entirely different story, I found it very usefull for fast target/sight aquisition at close distances.

So for that reason, I would reccommend the express sight option.

As for finish, I choose to have all outer parts other than barrels of my double matte nickel-plated as a measure of corrosion protection.
Annother option to consider is to have the inner metal parts hard-chromed for the same reason. This option is not on Krieghoff's standard list, but was reccommended to me by a KH rep and my gunsmith.

Also, no engraving and other fuss, it's intended to be a "working gun". And frankly, I rather have mine a little shiny but working, than the other way around (with some of the swamp areas in Tanzania and Mocambique in my (dreamy) mind...)

Cheers,
500NE



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foxfire
.375 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: 500NE]
      #21568 - 02/12/04 12:12 AM

I just bought a used one. It came with the 470, 9.3x74R and 7x65R barrels. It's at Krieghoff now being fitted with a left handed stock. All the barrels had their standard sights no express sights. But all the barrels had scopes and quick detachable mounts. I haven't even fired it. I was told I'll have it back for the holidays. So I guess I'll fire it then and get a look at the sight picture the barrels have.

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39248
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: foxfire]
      #21576 - 02/12/04 02:42 AM

foxfire

You sure managed to pick-up a well rounded range of calibres "pre-loved". Now all you need are the shotgun barrels.

I would be very interested in knowing how all the different calibres handle in the one frame when you get it.




--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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foxfire
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Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 511
Loc: Long Island N.Y.,
Re: Krieghoff express sights [Re: NitroX]
      #21581 - 02/12/04 03:42 AM

The 470 and 9.3x74R barrels have the same serial number as the receiver. So these were a set made by the factory in Germany. I have the test targets, as they were included in the box. The 7x65R barrels carry a different serial # manufactured a couple of years earlier. I never fired it, as soon as I got it I brought it in for the stock work.

As soon as I get it back, I was promised before Christmas
and get a chance to shoot them I'll report back.

As far as the shotgun barrels go, I'll probably add them as soon as my wife gets over the shock of the cost of the gun

--------------------
No good deed goes unpunished


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