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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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Omnivorous_Bob
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Reged: 03/10/05
Posts: 285
Loc: Montana
Water Buff w/4-bore
      #211819 - 01/07/12 04:31 PM

Good Day,
Some good friends and I just returned from an excellent hunt for water buffalo and other asorted critters in Australia. I had the chance to try out my T. Bland single shot on several animals and was very pleased with the results.

The loads used were 1500 grain hardened roundballs over either 85 or 100 grains of Blue Dot, for 1335 or just over 1500 fps respectively. Several either exited or were under the skin on shoulder shots and two were in the hind quarters after traversing full length. Most shots were within 30 yards with the longest being about 100.



Ball just breaking the skin

Ball under the skin after hitting the opposite shoulder

Recovered bullets with a 375


I had a great time, met some great friends, and can't begin to say enough about the hospitality of our hosts and the other Australian hunters I had the pleasure to meet. I'll definitely be back. Thanks!

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

Edited by CptCurl (14/10/12 10:22 PM)

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
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Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #211820 - 01/07/12 04:38 PM

Thats a fair sized wart on the arse of that beast Bob.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4915
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #211822 - 01/07/12 04:40 PM

O Bob, good story and pics.

I must say from an ethical point of view it is not fair to smack a Buff with somrthing the size of a bowling ball.

The size of the 1" (AKA 4 Bore)- yeah don't ask me why I originaly wrote 500- is really well demonstrated when shown in comparison to the 375H&H.
Glad you enjoyed your experience out here.

Edited by Rule303 (01/07/12 08:39 PM)

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lancaster
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Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: Rule303]
      #211830 - 01/07/12 07:08 PM

what is this brass?? dont look like a RMC lathe turned case.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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tinkerModerator
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Loc: Nevada
Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: lancaster]
      #211859 - 02/07/12 03:26 AM

Great show!


Looks like you're running balls right at groove diameter.
Have you tried anything bigger in dia?

Can we see the rest of what you're using as load components -- wad column etc?




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: tinker]
      #211860 - 02/07/12 03:39 AM

Good story and pictures, Bob. I hope to make a similar trip some time in the next few years. I don't have a 4bore (dagnabbit) - but will "make due" with a smaller rifle. Your post really sparks my fire.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: tinker]
      #211875 - 02/07/12 08:54 AM

Tinker, these balls are just under groove size (1.005") but still shoot well. I've used 1.025" balls sized down to 1.007", but they didn't shoot any better and looked like gumdrops instead of spheres after going through 4 different sizing dies, making the 1.000" ones much quicker and easier to load.

Here's a picture of the wad column next to the RMC brass (it's lathe turned just polished a bit).



In reality the felt wad would be rolled in melted wonderlube. For this trip I used a 1/2" felt wad over the card (as opposed to 1" shown here) and 4 1/2" fiber wads instead of 3, then some lube under the ball. The lube did cause the fiber wads to stick to the ball in some cases and twice I found the fiber in the exit wound or under the far side skin. I think that may cause fliers, but hasn't bee a issue in AK where the lube is usually very hard.

As far as loading tools go, on this trip I loaded everything by hand each night with a measure, hammer, depriming rod, dow, and a small flat steel anvil. That worked well and avoided the 5kg airline limit and hazmat issues.

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

Edited by CptCurl (14/10/12 10:23 PM)

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500Nitro
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Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #211876 - 02/07/12 09:04 AM


A person I know flattened a charging Buffalo that was having a go at another person I knew.

Everything else had failed to stop it - probably because they didn't connect correctly - so the 4 or 8 bore was let loose and it floored the buffalo from side on.

Good to see these guns out in the field.

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gatsby
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Reged: 05/09/05
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Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #211882 - 02/07/12 10:26 AM

Starting to get quite a collection with the 4 bore. What was the thought behind using the round ball vs the conical?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
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Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: gatsby]
      #211903 - 02/07/12 11:09 PM


Great story. Fourbore does what Fourbore was meant to do..

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: rigbymauser]
      #211914 - 03/07/12 01:19 AM

Bob, good story. I'm glad your trip and hunt went well. The 4-bore certainly seems to kill them well with great penetration.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: gatsby]
      #211968 - 03/07/12 11:36 AM

Gatsby, the reason for the roundballs was mainly easy of loading (that is, laziness on my part) as I could get a good crimp by rolling the case edge against a hard surface whereas for the conicals I usually use a die. In retrospect I do wish I'd brought a few to compare side by side, but the balls did the job. A really fun time!
Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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gatsby
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Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #211976 - 03/07/12 01:51 PM

Quote:

Gatsby, the reason for the roundballs was mainly easy of loading (that is, laziness on my part) as I could get a good crimp by rolling the case edge against a hard surface whereas for the conicals I usually use a die. In retrospect I do wish I'd brought a few to compare side by side, but the balls did the job. A really fun time!
Bob



I wonder if a heavy fixer would create enough tension for "on the road" reloading of the conicals?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: gatsby]
      #212010 - 04/07/12 12:25 AM

Considering the much slower speed of a heavier conical and that the round balls penetrated sufficiently, there is certainly no advantage to using a conical in this calibre.

Those were the findings of Samuel Baker in India and Africa when used in his double 4. He did have a 'conical' mould made for it, which "led me into such scrapes that I eventually gave up the conical as useless".

Now, we must realize that Baker was using a muzzleloading rifle and in such, had to use pure lead conicals so that'd fit tightly and stay on the powder, however with patched round balls, he could use any hardness of ball, thus the round balls penetrated more deeply than did the conicals.

He also noted that round balls "never failed to floor a charging elephant".

What a round, Bob. Thanks for sharing.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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alexbeer
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Reged: 10/04/08
Posts: 389
Loc: Tasmania, Australia
Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: DarylS]
      #212065 - 04/07/12 11:45 PM

Nice Bob, well done.

Whats the weight of your rifle and whats the twist rate of the barrel?

Best
ALEX

--------------------

Details matter!

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Omnivorous_Bob
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Reged: 03/10/05
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Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: alexbeer]
      #212080 - 05/07/12 02:23 AM

Alex, the gun weighs just an ounce or two under 17lb. The twist is 1:100 which should be good for 1.45" long bullets in this diameter per Greenhill's formula and is marked "Kynoch's drawn case for conical ball."

If you decide to go forward with your 4-bore project I'd be glad to send whatever close up part photos or measurements you want if it could assist. I think it would be great if a few more of these guns were built! There are a few folks here in AK with 4 and 8 rifles and shotguns of various action types from Jones UL to TL hammerless that I'm sure I could get detailed info on if it might spur some ideas. Also, my friend Cal Pappas has a book at the publishers right now on British bore rifles that has lots of excellent photos of big guns. It should be out in a few months.

Bob

--------------------
"If we're not supposed to eat animals, how come they're made out of meat?"

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DarylS
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Re: Water Buff w/4-bore [Re: Omnivorous_Bob]
      #212091 - 05/07/12 07:18 AM

Think I may have to aquire that book, Bob. Please keep us posted.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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