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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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Heath
.224 member


Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 5
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
Building a .69 cal advice
      #211802 - 01/07/12 04:50 AM

Hi, I've been following this site for a long time but this is my first post. I'm new to muzzle loading and I've always wanted a large bore rifle and this seems to be the most affordable way to get one. I am interested in having a kit made where I can finish it myself. I am thinking of a .69 cal or larger rifle and after reading several of the posts here by people with lots of experience it will be a round ball gun with an english stock. Any advice on companies to contact, barrel and twist rates or anything else that I should know would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: Heath]
      #211805 - 01/07/12 06:03 AM

Heath welcome to the site!


Although I don't qualify to steer your efforts at the bench on this project, I'll forward to your personal message mailbox the phone number of our Steve Zihn.
He can give you the gunbuilder's perspective, and I trust his approach well enough to have hired him to do a similar job for me.

We have a few other members who are also very highly skilled and knowledgeable on this subject who will likely soon join the conversation.

I wish you the best of success with your rifle!






Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: tinker]
      #211873 - 02/07/12 07:02 AM



Here's mine made by my brother however this site's Steve Zihn, will build you a wonderful Sporting Rifle, Purdey style, if that's what you want - in caplock.

Were I to have another, it would be a 16 bore - not a 14 bore(482gr. ball at .682").

The Ed Rayle barrels are bored 15 guage to use a true 16 bore ball(.662"- Lyman mould), which in pure lead, weighs an even ounce.

The 14 bore does stagger moose with a broadside lung shot.
]f you want a kit, try Jim Chambers and perhaps he can suggest or alter his earlier flint English Gentleman's Rifle kit for caplock if that's what you want. Jim's kits are not for beginers to building, though. He uses top-quality parts, but the kit comes in only up to .62 calibre(just over 20 bore) Further changes might be made- so ti's worth a call.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Heath
.224 member


Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 5
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: DarylS]
      #212176 - 06/07/12 01:41 PM

Thank you all for the information, I'll keep you posted.

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Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: Heath]
      #212217 - 07/07/12 03:00 PM

Get Track of the Wolfs plans drawn from an Original 65 (IIRC) cal. Purdey Sporting the stock design is excellent for heavy recoil.
I have a 10 pound rifle that shoots a .662 ball, its about 40-50 grains lighter than a 69 caliber would shoot.
It has an 80" twist and never causes a problem with any load I care to shoot. It only has .008 deep grooves.
But the barrel is leaded screw stock and I have stopped shooting it pending getting a 4150 Gun Barrel quality steel barrel from Jim McLemore with a .695 bore. It will need a different ball but I have a .672" mould that may work.
If you are truly looking for a barrel he is working on tooling now but is a one man craftsman and things get done when they are done.
These are EXCELLENT barrels that he fires for accuracy before they are shipped. He will not ship a barrel that is not accurate. I have a 50 and a 45 in heavy contours. The 50 is in a match rifle and is VERY accurate. His standard twist is a gain. He will not tell the gain. Said he spent years getting it right. I am really excited to get this barrel in and on the rifle. Though I know it will make more recoil.


I would not go slower than 80" maybe 96" at the very most in a 69 no matter what people may think.
These twists will easily produce 1600 fps and that all that is needed in a ball that weighs more than an ounce.

Dan

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: Dphariss]
      #212240 - 08/07/12 12:02 AM

Further to what Dan has said, my 14 bore rifle needs 180gr. 2F to achieve 1,600fps. I standardized mine at 165gr. 2F for hunting, which produces 1,500fps to 1,550fps. That gives me a point blank range of 120yards(3" above of below LOS)

With it's 480gr. ball, it's fun for a very few people, only. No one at my club will shoot it but they all marvel at it's accuracy and hitting power out to 300yards. I have to refrain from using it's 'hunting' loads on the bush trail as it badly damages (cups) our steel targets and breaks their chains and splits clevices - yes, they are thick, heavy chains and clevices. It's fun to watch heavy 1/2" and 5/8" steel plates dance in the sunlight that's streaming in through the tree branches.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: DarylS]
      #212293 - 08/07/12 01:30 PM

What a ripper!



Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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Dphariss
.300 member


Reged: 18/04/06
Posts: 130
Loc: Montana
Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: tinker]
      #212583 - 13/07/12 04:53 AM

This is a link to a slow mo video of a my 16 bore with a 140 gr of FF Swiss and a 54 with 90 gr of Swiss FFF.


http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/DPhariss/Video%201/?action=view&current=SLOWMOTION.mp4

At about 25 yards this rifle will dimple and crack a RR tie plate with a pure lead ball, the plate is 1/2" thick.
It will wind up targets hung on chains from horizontal bar with a reduced charge and otherwise damage steel targets as Daryl states.

http://s72.photobucket.com/albums/i199/D...oretieplate.mp4


Dan

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: Dphariss]
      #212585 - 13/07/12 06:42 AM

Had a target hanging at about 65 yards at Hefley Rendezvous a few years back. the .50's and a .54 merely rocked the plate back and forth.

I noted the plate was attached to a ring around a rod, with about a foot of shank to the 8" plate.

Just for the fun of it, I loaded my hutning load 165gr. and let fly with a 480gr. pure lead ball. I got 9 360's out of that shot, with all three companion shooters counting.

That contest (1 miss only) won me a lantern that will take 4" diameter candles a full 12" high. Nice prize. Second place, my brother, shooting his .50 Virginia Rifle, missed 2 out of 22 targets. I was hot that year, winning every event I entered with the .69 (6 of them), except for the long range BP ctg. event where I only placed in the middle of the pack. I'm still happy with that result.

If you can handle the recoil, they can be VERY accurate & have greater accuracy potential than smaller bore sizes. They are also easier to find accurate loads in as long as a few easy rules are followed as to patch thickness and where to start powder wise.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Heath
.224 member


Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 5
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: Heath]
      #212620 - 14/07/12 12:36 AM

This is going to be more addictive than I thought, I'm hoping to be able to start on it this fall. I appreciate all the information, and enjoy seeing pics of everyone's wonderful rifles. Does anyone have any experience with The Gun Works Muzzleloading Emporiums Rifles, I really like their English Sporting Rifle.

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
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Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: Heath]
      #212622 - 14/07/12 12:39 AM

sorry - checked it out and it is a retail/on-line distributor - not a maker. They are a supplier of finished guns made by someone else- modern and muzzleloading.

I do not know who's English gun they are selling but it looks pretty good in the style of a Purdey, I'd say. They might be Pedersoli. 9or perhaps custom made in the US using trackofthewolf Purdey plans/design) Wtih ot being able to have a VERY close look, it's all speculation as to final quality, fit and finish.

At $1,750 to $2,000, they are not expensive - I'd say a real steal. My brother could/would make one just like those (only perfect) but it would cost you well over $4,000 as a start - add more for checkering or any engraving desired.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Heath
.224 member


Reged: 16/06/06
Posts: 5
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: DarylS]
      #212869 - 17/07/12 04:28 AM

Daryl, what is the barrel length and twist on your rifle? I called The Gunworks Muzzleloading Emporium about their English Sporting Rifle and they said they do build custom rifles and they own Oregon Barrel Company. Do you have any information or experience with Oregon Barrel Co., They said they could put a kit together for about $750.00.

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CowboyCS
.333 member


Reged: 05/10/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Kansas u.S.A.
Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: Heath]
      #212874 - 17/07/12 06:22 AM

Joe & Suzi Williams(owners of Oregon Barrel Works and the Muzzleloading Emporium) are great people to deal with. Joe makes an excellent barrel, they are cut rifling and he can do them in any bore, groove and twist rate you want. The only reason I don't use him for all of my Muzzleloader barrels is his equipment is limited to 36" long and 2" Outside Diameter max barrel. I've been using custom barrels from them for almost a decade now and you won't do business with nicer people then Joe and Suzi. The quality is excellent, the turn around time from order to delivery is very good and the prices are very reasonable. And one more bonus is that Joe will cut you a barrel in 4140 Barrel ordinance if you request it, a lot of other muzzleloader barrel makers won't.

Colin

--------------------
The Bill of Rights- Void were prohibited by law
Stolzer & Son's Gunsmithing

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: CowboyCS]
      #212883 - 17/07/12 08:54 AM

My barrel is 1 1/8" octagonal, 32" long w/breech - .690" bore with a 66" twist and .012" deep, grooves barely wider than the lands.

I am MOST excited to hear about a 4140 barrel.

If I were to do another .69, it would have a 1 3/16" bl. tapered to 1 1/16", .690" bore with an 80" twist and rifling .006" deep rifling, grooves double the width of the lands & it would be a stress relieved 4140 barrel.

If I ever replace my current .69 barrel and I might, it will be with a 1 1/8" tapered octagonal to 1 1/6" muzzle. Ed Rayle's 16 bore, ie: actually a 15 bore with .575" bore and with the above noted rifling characteristics - again, a stress relieved 4140 barrel.

The reason I hang on to my old .69, is it will still put 5 consecutive shots into 1" to 1 1/2" at 100meters off bags, & 2 to 2 1/2" at 200 yards. It's hard to discard a barrel that beats many modern guns that are using scopes.

$740.00 if compsed of good parts is INEXPENSIVE - note the capital letters.

I would estimate that most good guns today, have roughly $1,000 to 1,200 in parts depending on the wood.

My brother's rifles and smoothbores run those figures in parts alone.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26488
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Building a .69 cal advice [Re: DarylS]
      #215109 - 21/08/12 12:45 AM

Heath- I just posted another rifle my Brother built, seems like a long time ago, now. It's in the ML forum, of course.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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