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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns
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tunofun
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Darwin, NT, Australia
12ga cartridge???
      #21041 - 21/11/04 01:06 AM

Has anyone loaded 12ga brass cases with cast slugs and set it up to basicly be a rifle cartridge? Any ideas on energy and MV? Think this would be enough to take buffalo?

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 12ga cartridge??? [Re: tunofun]
      #21050 - 21/11/04 12:18 PM

tunofun:
The 12-bore brass cases are a bit hard to find in Oz, Saunders used to stock the berdan-primed CBC cases at Century Arms, someone here may know of a current supplier. In the States its obviously much easier.

Note that historically, 12-bore guns designed to fire brass-cased cartridges have a slightly larger bore diameter than those designed for paper or plastic cases.

Many buff have been laid low in the NT by 12-bore Brenneke slugs, but the Foster-style slugs as loaded by Winchester are hollow-lead inverted cups and are woefully inadequate. Great on pigs though.

If you can use a rifled barrel or rifled-choke barrel, Fosbery-style slugs up to 750 grains are a far better option, and are very effective on buffalo. The chapter on loading for the Paradox in Graeme Wright's book is the best source of info to date.

Another slant on this has been commercialised by James Gates in the US: check out the Terminator and Xterminator slugs in the product range on his Dixie Slugs website: http://www.dixieslugs.com

Hope this helps.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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tunofun
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Darwin, NT, Australia
Re: 12ga cartridge??? [Re: Marrakai]
      #21515 - 30/11/04 08:52 PM

Since I cannot afford a decent double, I thought this could do as a substitute. I was thinking of buying a SxS shottie with rifled tubes and using slugs for buff and pigs, its gotta be the next best thing I reckon!
Sabatti SABA Slug Shotgun (too many S's!)
What do you guys think?

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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Taos
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Reged: 09/05/04
Posts: 169
Loc: Nevada, U.S.A.
Re: 12ga cartridge??? [Re: tunofun]
      #21533 - 01/12/04 04:18 AM

Tunofun,

I am in the same boat as you, can't afford a decent double. That looks like a great alternative. Do you have any idea on cost? I have never heard of them being available in the U.S. but am sure going to find out!!

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tunofun
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Darwin, NT, Australia
Re: 12ga cartridge??? [Re: Taos]
      #21575 - 02/12/04 02:41 AM

They go for around $1k US I believe, pretty good in comparison to a double rifle...

I will probly run slugs like Dixie's terminator in it, and that should do me just fine!

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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tunofun
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Darwin, NT, Australia
Re: 12ga cartridge??? [Re: tunofun]
      #30092 - 26/04/05 10:43 PM

If the bore in the SxS slug gun is .730" and I turn up some solid brass projectiles (done it for my 458 before...), would I be able to paper patch them into the brass shotgun shells or use some type of crimp?

Marrakai, I noticed on a different post about paradox's that crimping tool of yours... Is it as simple as that? seat the bullet and wack it in the crimp to hold it there? That would be very interesting, the gun I was talking about above has 3" chambers so one could pull some serious MV out of a turned solid and a 3" case...



--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 12ga cartridge??? [Re: tunofun]
      #30130 - 27/04/05 02:32 PM

That Saba sluggie has IC chokes in both barrels, so any genuine solid like a turned brass bullet will likely take the chokes with it on first firing!

They are clearly designed for 'rifled' slugs, the so-called 'rifling' is designed to compress as the projectile passes through the chokes.

The Saba looks like a good idea: my only advice is to stay away from the hollow lead slugs like the 'Foster' and stick to proper solids like the Brenneke or the Terminator.

I'm unsure the Terminator would fly well without spin-stabilisation, but hey! ...only one way to find out!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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tunofun
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Darwin, NT, Australia
Re: 12ga cartridge??? [Re: Marrakai]
      #30139 - 27/04/05 08:30 PM

Really? I was under the impression the sabatti slug SxS was without chokes. I emailed the distributor here (acacia imports) and they told me you can't use the rifled slugs in it... hence my idea for the brass solids. Well, I can just cast some slugs for one then... I was worried about the 1oz slugs being too small so I thought I could make some brass solids for it. I may make a mould to get heavier slugs if you can't buy one. copying a paradox mould for the correct bore size would be advantagous I believe. What do you think?

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: 12ga cartridge??? [Re: tunofun]
      #30144 - 27/04/05 09:49 PM

Sounds like you were served up duff gen, mate! If the bores are .730, and the chokes are IC in both barrels, I strongly suspect it would be perfect for rifled slugs of any design, including the Winchester Fosters. Its just that the Brennekes are far superior for penetration.

If you check-out the info panel from the SABA web-page you listed in your previous post, you will see that the sluggie has "Improved cylinder chokes for slug."

I am strongly of the opinion that Fosbery-Paradox or Dixie Terminator slugs will probably tumble without spin-stabilisation. They are designed for rifled barrels or rifled-chokes. The shuttle-cock design of the Brenneke-type slugs is inherently better in a smooth-bore. Fosters are good too because they are nose-heavy with a lighter skirt, but they tend to flatten too much on thick-skinned game like buffalo.



--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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tunofun
.300 member


Reged: 10/11/04
Posts: 120
Loc: Darwin, NT, Australia
Re: 12ga cartridge??? [Re: Marrakai]
      #30150 - 28/04/05 03:25 AM

Well, I was told this shotgun had rifled bores! Damn, would have been good if it actually did! Thanks Marrakai! There goes that idea! hehehe

--------------------

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
Sigmund Freud -- General Introduction to Psychoanalysis

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