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7mmNewbie
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7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever?
      #209871 - 02/06/12 02:39 PM

Alright. I'm new to hunting and I think I have chosen my caliber, The 7mm.(If anyone has anything to say about the .308 vs 7mm debate raging on in my head, now would be great.) I will be hunting deer for now and Elk sometime in the future. I need A good gun for under 2,500. Please help me!!!


Edited by 7mmNewbie (02/06/12 02:40 PM)

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tinker
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: 7mmNewbie]
      #209888 - 03/06/12 12:45 AM

Welcome to the site!


Judging from your screen name it looks like you're leaning in the direction of the 7mm

There are lots of cartridges from which to choose - are you just talking about bullet diameter or are you specific to the .308Win and the 7mmRemMag..?

Where are your hunts?
Is this close wooded stalking or tree stands or wide open ranges ..?
Have you been out scouting?
Is there additional budget for binoculars and a pack frame and other field gear?

It's great you've chosen to pursue hunting.
Don't beat yourself up on caliber choice, soon that step will be behind you and you'll be in the field!




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: tinker]
      #209893 - 03/06/12 01:07 AM

A new hunter - new shooter as well? Perhaps low experience shooting?

One of the old standards, .308 Winchester, .30/06 Winchester, hate to say it, .270 Winchester, 7mm08 Winchester or .260 Remington will do what you want.

I would definitely suggest that you stay away from any belted magnum, ie: no 7mm rem Mag, or short magnum due to the very much increased noise and increased recoil.

Within a new hunter's accuracy range and beyond, all of the above will work perfectly on deer, bear, elk and moose.

The requisite accuracy cannot be replaced with more power and a poor shot with a magnum is a poor shot, it's as sinple as that - the 'extra power' will not get you out of trouble, but can most easily cause it due to innacuracy from flinching.

Every guide out there is witness to this - new hunters with guns too big for their experience levels results in wounded and sometimes lost game.

[edited to include] - bolt action only!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (03/06/12 01:08 AM)

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aromakr
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: DarylS]
      #209897 - 03/06/12 01:20 AM

I totally agree with Daryl on this one. If the 7mm is stuck in your mind then the 7X57 is hard to beat, however I believe the .308 Win is more versitle, with a larger choice of bullet weights and is a highly accurate cartridge. and bolt action.
Bob

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gryphon
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: aromakr]
      #209919 - 03/06/12 06:18 AM

There`s been a lot of stuff taken with my 7mm RM over the last 30plus years and before that a 308 W was the go to rifle.

I rolled another stag last week with my 7mm and for all of the super calibres that are touted as "this can do this and that can do that" the 7mm does the job without fail every time 'if i do my part'
Most of those kills over the years would have fallen to a 308 btw,most not all.


Old Chuck lists the 308 with 150 gr @ 15.8 fp`s and the 7mm RM with the same weight pill @ 19.2 fps recoil energy,hardly worth complaining about unless you are a brand newcomer to the centre fire world and coming straight from an air gun or .22rm.

I know blokes that kill all they want with a 308,try one,dont let anyone put you off it at all as it is a great rifle calibre in this country.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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7mmNewbie
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: gryphon]
      #209958 - 03/06/12 06:01 PM

Thanks for all the input guys. I'll be mostly in the forest but w/ some mountains and fields. I am not new to guns and shooting, just non-waterfowl hunting. I need a gun solely for that purpose. I have been shooting shotguns all my life. I have decided to try deer and elk hunting. I AM new to rifles. I just need straight up recommendations for a lefty rifle. Thanks for all your help!

Edited by 7mmNewbie (03/06/12 06:37 PM)

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7mmNewbie
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: DarylS]
      #209960 - 03/06/12 06:41 PM

Quote:



I would definitely suggest that you stay away from any belted magnum, ie: no 7mm rem Mag, or short magnum due to the very much increased noise and increased recoil.




Is the noise a factor? Or just personal preference? I can take recoil, but if noise affects the hunting...

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Jim_A
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: 7mmNewbie]
      #209981 - 03/06/12 11:15 PM

Just get both

--------------------
DRSS

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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
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Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: Jim_A]
      #209982 - 03/06/12 11:19 PM

For all intents and purposes, noise is not a factor, at least not in comparing the above-mentioned rifles in hunting situations.

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DarylS
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: Ben]
      #209990 - 04/06/12 01:32 AM

The noise can and does effect the amount or degree of flinching - the louder and more sharp the sound, the greater the pain or volume of ringing and the greater the flinch. That is the only reason I mentioned it. All CF's will injure your hearing - the more powder you burn through a small hole, the greater or sharper the blast. That's all.

Is it a deciding factor - no - it merely adds to the others.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: DarylS]
      #209991 - 04/06/12 01:40 AM

Add up all the pros and cons, then make your decision.

In my opinion, within 300yards, the Magnum 7 has no benefits over a .308 - or you could say, what the .308 can do at 300yards, the 7mag can do at 400 - .308 at 400, 7 mag at 500 which is way beyond where 90% of hunters should be shooting.

I mention 300yards as that is a range that is past many hunters ability to make good decisions and accurate shots on game.

7mm mag. ammo that will put up with the inceased speeds costs more, isn't as available, requires longer actions and heavier rifles, kicks more, if harder on the ears - all for a measly 200fps. -

Personally, I see more cons than pros.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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7mmNewbie
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: DarylS]
      #210112 - 05/06/12 04:29 AM

Alright, again thank you for your input about which caliber I should choose, but with a 3,000 budget which lefty bolt-action should I buy? That price includes a scope, recommendations for that to will be appreciated.

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gryphon
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: DarylS]
      #210120 - 05/06/12 07:28 AM

Quote:





all for a measly 200fps. -





its not the fps in reality imo to me its the extra 600 odd foot pounds that make a real difference when they connect.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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7mmNewbie
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: gryphon]
      #210124 - 05/06/12 11:05 AM

Thank you Gryphon. Thats what I needed to know. I wont flinch with the recoil and sound, I need the bare facts about the two ammo selections. And a recommendation for a Lefty bolt-action and scope for under 3000

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Fjold
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: 7mmNewbie]
      #210132 - 05/06/12 02:21 PM

I've taken elk and deer with the 308 with no problems but given a choice I like a larger cartridge. But, if it's going to your only rifle for a while I'd recommend the the 308 or the 7mm-08 over a magnum just because you'll shoot it more. Get a bolt action rifle over an autoloader or a lever with a good variable power scope in the 2-8X or 3-9X range.

I've been doing this for a long time and here's what some left handed rifles look like.

Win M70 375 H&H, Ruger 7mm Rem mag, Savage 300 WSM, Remington 308, Savage 22.250, Savage 17 HMR, Stag 223, CZ 22 lr, Montana Rifle Co 6.5x284.



Here's the same 6.5x284 on the bottom with a couple of left handed Savages in 22.250 and 243 set up for long range shooting.



--------------------
Frank

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gryphon
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: Fjold]
      #210134 - 05/06/12 03:15 PM

Why will you "shoot it more"

I remember buying my 7mm and two boxes of crackers 30 plus years ago and then went straight out hammering rabbits and whatever else got in the way,then bought more ammo..banged it every chance i could get...came off a 308 to do so.

Its a 7mm not a 375!

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Rule303
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: 7mmNewbie]
      #210136 - 05/06/12 03:19 PM

I would go for a 308 as it will do all you want and more, plus ammo is avliability is not a problem.

If you can get an AR style rifle in 308 in left hand I would seriously look at this. Most can match bolt actions for accuracy so your long distance and close scrub shooting is taken care of. I do not advocate semi autos for the reason of puting a ton of lead in the air but for a quick follow up shot. With a bolt action your master hand has to break its grip to work the bolt and then come back onto the rifle. With a semi auto both hands stay on the rifle and you reaquire your sight picture faster. the time difference is small.

Some AR type rifles carry a fair bit of weight so you would need to check this out and you want a hunting base rifle not one with all the military gear attached.

Scope. I have been told by many with far more experience than myself that it pays to spend more on your scope than your rifle. While my experience backs that up, with the quality of todays midrange scopes-Leopould, Nikon, Zeiss Conquest etc, I do not think it is so important now.

The above is just my opinion and maybe worth thinking about.

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DarylS
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: Rule303]
      #210189 - 06/06/12 12:40 AM

I suspect the thinking about more shooting bridges on ammo cost - around here, .308's are usually in the $18.00 to $40.00 bracket depending on the bullet, while the 7mag runs $45.00 to around $75.00 for the same range of bullets, standard to premium.

My first 7mm Mag. was a Browning Autoloader. I used it for shooting coots and jackrabbits on my cousin's ranch, South of Moosejaw, Sask. I actually preferred my #4 Enfield .303 for that task - much cheaper plinking with as-good accuracy.

If I was to purchase a new .308 (or other calibre for that matter) and it had to be a lefty, I'd buy a top-end Savage. They are and have been for some time, the most accurate factory rifles you can buy, seemingly in all calibres.

My new 'cheapest in the lineup' Savage Axis .25/06 is a case in point. I scrubbed the bore well before shooting it, then went out and first loads tried, averaged just over 1/2" at 100 meters with 75gr. and 100gr. My buddy's .30/06 does the same, with 165, 180 and 200gr. bullets. My .375H&H Weather Warrior, was a cloverleafing rifle with 270TSX's and 300gr. Sierra, Hornady and Normas. Buddie's .300 Win Mag is also a sub 1/2" shooter, with 180gr. spitzers as well as his favourite Elk bullet, the Hornady 180gr. RN. Pretty cool! Their .204's, .223's, .243's, 7mm/08's, .308's., '06's, and the magnums are all the same - amazingly accurate, right out of the box.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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aromakr
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: DarylS]
      #210198 - 06/06/12 02:11 AM

I'm going to have to disagree with "Rule 303" on his recommendation of an AR type for a newby to rifle shooting. Yes an AR has a quick second shot and the good ones are accurate, however this can also cause the shooter to begin to rely on that quick second shot instead of making the first shot count. I would much rather see a new to rifle shooting start with a single shot, like the Ruger #1 or as I said earlier a bolt gun. I believe you need to learn to walk before you begin to run. Hone you skills as a shooter first, making that first shot count.
Bob

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gryphon
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: aromakr]
      #210213 - 06/06/12 07:53 AM

Quote:

I'm going to have to disagree with "Rule 303" on his recommendation of an AR type for a newby to rifle shooting. Yes an AR has a quick second shot and the good ones are accurate, however this can also cause the shooter to begin to rely on that quick second shot instead of making the first shot count. I would much rather see a new to rifle shooting start with a single shot, like the Ruger #1 or as I said earlier a bolt gun. I believe you need to learn to walk before you begin to run. Hone you skills as a shooter first, making that first shot count.
Bob



Absolutely Bob agreed. I spent a few years hunting in a Sambar hound team where 98% of the fellas had rem woodies ,browning bars or H+K`s,many were new chums to the sport and believe me many had the mentality of "let the lot go" often and mean often with complete misses as they panic shot the mag off.

One fella shot at a big stag on a very steep hillside that fell over in surprise,unwounded and as it struggled to right itself he "gave him the rest" faark me the idiot didnt draw blood but "it felt good letting them all go like that" Perhaps with a bolt he just may have been steadier,i`m sure he would have been.

More than a few tales like this abound amongst the old hound men.

Of course there were those that could control shoot the semi auto`s as well.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Rule303
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: aromakr]
      #210223 - 06/06/12 09:47 AM

Quote:

I'm going to have to disagree with "Rule 303" on his recommendation of an AR type for a newby to rifle shooting. Yes an AR has a quick second shot and the good ones are accurate, however this can also cause the shooter to begin to rely on that quick second shot instead of making the first shot count. I would much rather see a new to rifle shooting start with a single shot, like the Ruger #1 or as I said earlier a bolt gun. I believe you need to learn to walk before you begin to run. Hone you skills as a shooter first, making that first shot count.
Bob



No argument from me on what you say for a newbie and some oldies. However Newbie said he has quite some experience with shotguns so not entirly new to the shooting sports. I did note that you said rifle shooting but I believe self discipline in one form of shooting can carry over to another.

Gryph well aware of what you say. Have seen it numerous time myself.

What I am saying fellas is I did take what you are saying into consideration before I posted.

Cheers

Greg

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rscott
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: Rule303]
      #210238 - 06/06/12 12:33 PM

Here ya go;

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/historic-detail.asp?family=001C&mid=535026

add some good glass and you have a nice, functional hunting rifle for half of $3,000.

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7mmNewbie
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: rscott]
      #210246 - 06/06/12 02:19 PM

Thanks for all of the recommendations guy, it helps alot. I saw this gun... http://www.gunauction.com/buy/11091900/r...ifle-w-2f-scope
And I think I might go with this. Are there any similar alternatives that yall know of in LH? As stated I would like to get a rifle in .308 o 7mm.

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rscott
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? [Re: 7mmNewbie]
      #210276 - 06/06/12 11:51 PM

keep looking!
avoid some thing that is custom stocked for some one else, especially an internet auction where you are unable to handle the weapon prior to purchase. also that scope is crap. that stock . . . . well, never mind.

go to gun shops in your area and handle as many different weapons as you can until you find one you like. and give it some time as LH weapons are not prevalent on retail gun racks.

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7mmNewbie
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Re: 7mm or .308? Lefty Auto, Lefty Bolt Action, or Lever? *DELETED* [Re: rscott]
      #210554 - 10/06/12 05:51 AM

Post deleted by 7mmNewbie

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