Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: More heresy - scopes on doubles

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39263
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
More heresy - scopes on doubles
      #169207 - 09/10/10 06:23 AM

A bit more heresy from me.

What scopes do you recommend for use on double rifles and why?

My first use will be on my Tikka U/O DR so no big problem there. I have a set of DR barrels in 9.3x74R and .30-06. Plus 12g combination barrels in 12g and .223 and also 7x65R.

For the future what recommendations on something in the range of a .375 or .400 side by side?


Also does anyone like Schmidt & Bender, Swarovski and Zeiss still make neat little fixed power scopes in say 2x or 2 1/2x?

If not those brands, which brands?

Do most guys get a scope with a rail for doubles or ... ?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
GG375
.333 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 347
Loc: Brisbane
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: NitroX]
      #169211 - 09/10/10 07:37 AM

John

When I bought my Krieghoff 9.3.74mm it came with a S&B 1.5 - 4x with illuminated reticle. To my eye it was too big for that slim little rifle and made it top heavy as well - and added unecessary weight. I ended up replacing it with a Leupold 1.5 - 5x and it is much better now. I really wish the Europeans would offer more smaller 1" tubed scopes instead of all these whopping big 30mm jobs!

Cheers.

GG

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: GG375]
      #169213 - 09/10/10 08:05 AM

Yeah the funny thing is you don't need the 30mm tube to transfer light. Light transfer and brightness depends on the size of the objective lens and quality of coating. The fad for 30mm tubes is just that: a fad.

I have four DR's with scopes:

.375 H&H Flanged Mag. topped with a Schmidt & Bender 1.25 x 4

.375 H&H Mag. topped with a 1.75 x 6 Swarovski

9.3x74R topped with its original 2.5x Zeiss Zielklien and an alternate 1.5 - 5 Leupold

and a .300 Win. Mag. topped with a 1.5 x 5 Pentax.

The scope you choose depends on several factors:

* Caliber and intended use;
* Barrel configuration (e.g. what will actually fit);
* Size of rifle compared to scope (not top heavy);
* Budget;
* Etc.

For example of "what will actually fit" I can point to my Winkler .300 Mag. It came to me topped with a 1.5 x 5 Leupold, but the eye relief just didn't quite suit me. I had the 1.5 x 5 Pentax on hand, and it has a longer tube. I popped it on in place of the Leupold, and it proved to be perfect. The little Leupold is a grand scope but very short.

Long ago when I had a Valmet system like yours I topped my .30-06 barrels with a 4x Weaver, which did fine. My 12 over .222 barrels were topped with a 2 x 7 Redfield in the Valmet QD mount.

So there are lots of issues to consider. High on the list should be ergonomics. Improper eye relief ruins a rifle/scope combination.

Good luck,
Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1971
Loc: Denmark
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: CptCurl]
      #169217 - 09/10/10 08:28 AM


No heresy John...I would love to have a Heym B88 in 8x75R topped with a classic german scope.
A double for medium longrange work

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: rigbymauser]
      #169226 - 09/10/10 02:04 PM

That 30mm scope tube is more about elevation adjustment range than it is about light transmission.
Still, I run a 1" tube vx2 tactical (milDot with 40mm objective) on my m700LTR, with the badger base and my 2600fps 180gr GameKing loads I'm fine to 1K.

On the double rifle you speak of, purist/schmurist.
Start with the mounts and your ideal eye-relief and let that start the selection process. Do you or don't you want an illumated reticle..? From there shop within your budget and you'll likely have a much narrower field of choices.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Paul
.400 member


Reged: 28/08/07
Posts: 1031
Loc: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: tinker]
      #169243 - 09/10/10 08:31 PM

I fancied a small Swarovski variable for my .450/.400 but, when Heym wanted $2500 to put a claw mount on it, I decided it was bad form

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1778
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: Paul]
      #169251 - 09/10/10 11:33 PM

I once heard a well-known London gunmaker:
"We don't recommend scopes on double rifles with recoil above .375 H&H Magnum. Acording to Murphy's law every double rifle, no matter how well made, will double one day. If this happens with a scoped .470, you are in real trouble!"

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5275
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: kuduae]
      #169254 - 09/10/10 11:46 PM

I have a friend with a scoped .470 who doubled it the first time he pulled the trigger. Luckily the scope is a very long eye relief with its eyepiece set just behind the standing breech. Plenty of eye relief, so no blood.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Bonde
.333 member


Reged: 16/02/06
Posts: 278
Loc: Norway
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: CptCurl]
      #169279 - 10/10/10 05:58 AM

When it comes to scopes on DR the only one I find that doesn't screw up the looks (and balance) are the small 1.5-5x20 VXIIIs and similar size.
The Varipoint 1,1-4,4x24 30mm from Zeiss are wonderful scopes, but just look wrong on a slender doublerifle, too big and bulky...

I had a Mathelon doublerifledrilling made for me in 2008, and it had a small leupold in a pivot mount. I tried a 3-9x42 Zeiss on it, but that just looked silly.. The small Leupold definitely makes it a nicer looking gun.
I'm now using a Docter sight III on it which I find great! 100-120m shots are no worry, and it is very quick. Scary combination..

I'm planning to get one of Peters C-class DRs in .450/.400 one day soon. It will wear a 1,5-5x20 as well.

--------------------
------------------------------------------------------
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
RigbyUser
.275 member


Reged: 23/11/08
Posts: 65
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: Bonde]
      #169302 - 10/10/10 03:38 PM

Great post guys and some sage advice. I have a1.5x5 Leopold VXIII on my Chapuis and have been toying with the idea of fitting a 1.7x10 Swarovski. Had a look at one in the shop the other day and geez, their bloody big scopes.

I will still buy one and it will go on my custom Mauser 9.3x62, but the little Leopold will stay on the Chapuis 9.3x74.

I think this post convinced me not to go too top heavy on that lovely little double..........

Cheers all

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Grenadier
.375 member


Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: RigbyUser]
      #169305 - 10/10/10 06:19 PM



--------------------
~

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Maximus
.275 member


Reged: 15/05/12
Posts: 58
Loc: Switzerland
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: Grenadier]
      #209776 - 01/06/12 07:58 PM

Don't forget that 30mm tubes generally have bigger objectives and are therefore brighter at higher magnification.

I have a Leupold VX3 1-5x20 which is actually 4.5 at the upper end of its range and at that magnification will produce an exit pupil of 4.4mm. Using the Leupold at 4x produces a 5mm exit pupil.

I have just ordered a Zeiss Victory HT 1.1-4x24 that is a real 4x and will give a 6mm exit pupil at that magnification. That's quite a big advantage.

I will agree regarding the weight issue as the Zeiss is 200g heavier than the Leupold although the Zeiss does have an illuminated reticle. The same Leupold with an illuminated reticle is only 88g lighter. I think its a price worth paying for superior optics.

--------------------
SCI Helvetia Chapter
Find us on Facebook

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: Maximus]
      #209813 - 02/06/12 02:41 AM

You need to keep in mind the possible variation in the regulation with the extra weight of a scope. I have a 9.3 with a 1.75x 5 Zeiss it will not shoot anywhere near the open sights. Nor will it shoot a good group.

My 450/400 has a Leopold 1.75x6 and it shoots exactly the same with the open sights.

I think the difference is the weight proportionate to the weight of the rifle. My 9.3 is only 6.5 pounds without the scope and the scope is heavy. The 400 is 8.5 pounds naked with a light scope.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39263
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: mickey]
      #209816 - 02/06/12 03:06 AM

Mick

Can you sight your 9.3mm scope in to one of the barrels? And will it group well as a "single shot" that way?

I know some guys think this is ridiculous, but to me, having a DR shooting well with the open sights, then having an option of putting on a scope for a longer shot if necessary at least adds that option. Even if the second barrel isn't really feasible with a scope.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: NitroX]
      #209822 - 02/06/12 03:32 AM

Mick

Can you sight your 9.3mm scope in to one of the barrels? And will it group well as a "single shot" that way?

I know some guys think this is ridiculous, but to me, having a DR shooting well with the open sights, then having an option of putting on a scope for a longer shot if necessary at least adds that option. Even if the second barrel isn't really feasible with a scope.

.........................................




Yes and it groups very well with each barrel. The problem is in using the same loading for both. I have worked up a separate 'scope' loading that shoots well, with the right barrel shooting accurately to 250 yards.

It gets complicated but if I align the scope to shoot only the right barrel, with the open sight loads, to point of aim the left is, well out in left field, somewhere.

The 'scope' loads shoot well together but cross with open sights. I usually shoot with the scope and carry 4 rounds open sight loads in my pocket. They are smeared with red marker so I can tell the difference.

The 400 is much easier, although I dearly love my 9.3.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
doubleriflejack
.333 member


Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: NitroX]
      #209823 - 02/06/12 03:36 AM

I am very fussy about scopes for my double rifles: I have little or no objections to my using a nice small scope on any of my O/U rifles, but prefer not to use scopes on my SXS rifles; stick with iron sights on them. However, if hunting conditions dictate a scope is needed, I infrequently use them even on my SXS rifles. But, whatever double rifle I scope, I NEVER use a variable scope; variable scopes are simply not needed; are only a feature to increase sales to non hunters or hunters with little experience. For one thing, variable scopes are too large in physical size, and for another, when you see game, you are not going to have time to be fooling around resetting scope power (the only time variable scopes may be acceptable, is for varmint hunting, in my experience). Most importantly of all, I prefer a single power, low power, scope of only 2 or 3 power, more than suitable for double rifles, and one that is the smallest scope I can find, with smallness being extremely important.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: kuduae]
      #209824 - 02/06/12 03:39 AM

Quote:

I once heard a well-known London gunmaker:
"We don't recommend scopes on double rifles with recoil above .375 H&H Magnum. Acording to Murphy's law every double rifle, no matter how well made, will double one day. If this happens with a scoped .470, you are in real trouble!"



I have been told the same but it can still happen with a .375, I tried to take a shot at a good croc in Mozambique with my .375 from a very awkward position, result, missed shot and claret all over my face much to my camermans´ amusement. I still have the scar. Also, exit pupil only has to be 5mm, no adults over about 30 years old can get any bigger so those chaps advertising huge exit pupils are really only for the younger chaps and then max is 7mm

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #209826 - 02/06/12 03:54 AM

Quote:

........ I NEVER use a variable scope; variable scopes are simply not needed; are only a feature to increase sales to non hunters or hunters with little experience.......



Interesting thought. I might counter with 'somethings are just too complicated for some people'.

A topic for another thread?

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Maximus
.275 member


Reged: 15/05/12
Posts: 58
Loc: Switzerland
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #209828 - 02/06/12 04:16 AM

Quote:

variable scopes are simply not needed; are only a feature to increase sales to non hunters or hunters with little experience.


That's a massive generalisation, and I assure you there are plenty of hunters using variable scopes with lots of experience.

Firstly, a 1-4 or similar is actually very useful on this type of gun. 1x for driven game and close-quarters. 4x for long shots. You don't have to fiddle with the scope constantly.

Secondly, it's actually almost impossible now to buy a good quality European low-power compact scope that isn't a variable. In fact I cannot think of a single one.

--------------------
SCI Helvetia Chapter
Find us on Facebook

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26575
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: Maximus]
      #209829 - 02/06/12 04:27 AM

The only variable scopes I really liked, were the 1.5 to 4X or 5X Leupolds and Redfields. Anything over 4X was really not needed for big game shooting within the range I limit myself - under 300yards.

For straight big game and grouse shooting with my .458, a steel tubed 2-1/2X Weaver was always a good scope. Light weight, small unobtrusive and all the power needed for shooting any NA big game.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39263
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: DarylS]
      #209836 - 02/06/12 04:52 AM

I like a straight 1x for quick shooting. However limited when longer range shoots are needed. Therefore a 1-4x is a good compromise.

The problem with the 2 1/2 x and 3x theory is next to no one makes them anymore. Leupold and ?????? Please tell otherwise.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: NitroX]
      #209864 - 02/06/12 12:13 PM

John,
The Leupold Vari-X III, 1.5x-5x, 20mm objective lens, is a fine scope on a double and there are scads of used ones for sale. I have 5 of them, that's how much I like them. However, on my last two doubles I have gone to the Leupold Vari-X III, 1.75x-6x, 36mm objective lens. It is so little larger or heavier, as to be negligable, yet that larger objective lens gathers more light and seems to give me a few minutes of extra shooting light at each end of the day. Again, I see quite a few of them for sale on e-bay.

Best,
Ron Vella.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Maximus
.275 member


Reged: 15/05/12
Posts: 58
Loc: Switzerland
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #209902 - 03/06/12 02:16 AM

The Leupold 1.5x20 VXIII is a good scope, but has variable eye relief depending on magnification and no illuminated reticule, which I think is a huge help in close quarters. Of course they do make an illuminated reticle version, but it is a little heavier.

--------------------
SCI Helvetia Chapter
Find us on Facebook

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
doubleriflejack
.333 member


Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: Maximus]
      #209920 - 03/06/12 06:48 AM

variable scopes are simply not needed; are only a feature to increase sales to non hunters or hunters with little experience.


That's a massive generalisation, and I assure you there are plenty of hunters using variable scopes with lots of experience.

I certainly know that there are plenty of hunters using variable scopes with lots of experience, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT THEY ARE RIGHT. The scope sales people must really love them. However, I am not one to try to tell them to not use them. On the other hand, I know that I have no use for them. My "massive generalization" was learned through massive experience, my friend!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Maximus
.275 member


Reged: 15/05/12
Posts: 58
Loc: Switzerland
Re: More heresy - scopes on doubles [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #209923 - 03/06/12 07:05 AM

Like I said before, show me a European manufacturer who makes a low power fixed scope. There isn't any choice. It's variable or nothing. Just because you have "massive experience" it doesn't mean you are right either, my friend.

--------------------
SCI Helvetia Chapter
Find us on Facebook

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | >> (show all)


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
1 registered and 73 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 26263

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved