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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #209611 - 31/05/12 05:18 AM

I agree, not wanting to offend Mauser416 with these comments which are general comments. Anyone can be burned by a gunsmith, but somethings can reduce the chance.

Another guy on these forums and elsewhere sold a lot of double rifles which were never delivered.

Did any of these customers actually sight one?

I visited the guy personally and didn't see any work I would spend my dollars on. The building DRs idea only came after my visit however and evidently was a con (IMO).

If you buy a bespoke rifle, a double rifle build try to see some of their work. Even if it is something different from what you are looking at.

I wanted to get a shotgun converted and saw a reasonable example before contacting the guy. Unfortunately that gunmaker/gunsmith no longer wanted to do shotgun conversions himself.

AND the old lesson still stands - if it is cheap there is a reason. A cheap shotgun conversion is a lot riskier than one more expensive from an established guy. And ANY shotgun conversion will be riskier than buying a real double rifle in the first place.

Just like a sabatti buyer takes a much higher risk of defects than a Heym buyer.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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500Nitro
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #209612 - 31/05/12 05:19 AM


I think it also shows that if you get a gunsmith to do something, you put it in writing.

I learnt this very early on when the old "London Guns" gunsmith decided on his own free will to re engrave part of the barrels !!! The only problem was, the lump that sticks through is now pristine whereas the rest of the gun is worn.

So from now on, everything goes in writing.


Re the USA and gunsmiths / manufacturers, not sure what it is with these people over there but trying to get people to make stuff drives me batty and I have had it confirmed by a few others as well that this is normal.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #209613 - 31/05/12 05:21 AM

Quote:


I think it also shows that if you get a gunsmith to do something, you put it in writing.

I learnt this very early on when the old "London Guns" gunsmith decided on his own free will to re engrave part of the barrels !!! The only problem was, the lump that sticks through is now pristine whereas the rest of the gun is worn.

So from now on, everything goes in writing.




Ha ha, I believe that is the same gunmaker/smith I mentioned above re a shotgun conversion.

--------------------
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tinker
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #209614 - 31/05/12 05:27 AM

That's horrible.

So unfortunate.

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Mauser416
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: NitroX]
      #209615 - 31/05/12 05:28 AM

Good points NitroX and no offense taken.

I'm sitting on a stool in the corner of the classroom with a pointy hat on.

Many of the details were in writing yet this still transpired. The distance between Maine and Texas made this more problematic. I've used out of state gunsmiths and been more than happy in the past.

No offense intended to the guys out there that do good conversion work but I think that when/if I can afford to buy a DR it will be from someplace where I can see it, hold it, and return it should the need arise. At least Cabela's is taking back the Sabatti's or making it right.

--------------------
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500Nitro
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: NitroX]
      #209616 - 31/05/12 05:29 AM


Yep, Ralph Batnik or something.

hey, he can do great work, in fact superb work,
the problem is (and I have been told this since)
is that he can go over and above what he was asked to do !!!


Another one - he chopped a set of 577 barrels to 20 or 21 inches because that's what he thought would be good.
The customer had asked for 23 or 24 inches !!!

Kind of the type of thing that can't be rectified !!!

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: Mauser416]
      #209617 - 31/05/12 05:31 AM

Quote:

Good points NitroX and no offense taken.

I'm sitting on a stool in the corner of the classroom with a pointy hat on.

Many of the details were in writing yet this still transpired. The distance between Maine and Texas made this more problematic. I've used out of state gunsmiths and been more than happy in the past.

No offense intended to the guys out there that do good conversion work but I think that when/if I can afford to buy a DR it will be from someplace where I can see it, hold it, and return it should the need arise. At least Cabela's is taking back the Sabatti's or making it right.



Mauser416, it is easy to be an expert after the fact, and give armchair advice.

Personally I think if you have health problems that is what you need to look after, ie yourself.

Dealing with lawyers/courts etc to recover a smallish amount (ie for lawyers) will just drive you under. Better to look after one's health.

Wishing you the best of health.

Sending you a PM.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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mehulkamdar
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: NitroX]
      #209637 - 31/05/12 07:14 AM

Mauser416,

It should be possible to find a lawyer who takes your case up without upfront payments and who takes a percentage of any money recovered. Just write to the Maine Bar Association. They will help you. There are lawyers who do this kind of thing in every state. You may need to spend some time making calls and talking to a few lawyers before you settle on one, but you can find someone who will work without an upfront fee. Please keep trying.

I had heard good stuff about Jim White from a member on another forum, but this is ridiculous. Don't let this go without taking legal action. You deserve to get your hard earned money back.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Yochanan
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #209642 - 31/05/12 08:11 AM

Eureka! This looks like something from Africa's "bush tinker gunsmith's" Work shown on J White "gunsmithing" website didn't impress me at all. I hope you get your money back.

--------------------
© "I have never been able to appreciate 'shock' as applied to killing big game. It seems to me that you cannot kill an elephant weighing six tons by ´shock´unless you advocate the use of a field gun." - W.D.M. Bell: Wanderings of an Elephant Hunter.

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pjaln
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #209645 - 31/05/12 08:33 AM

mauser416,,,,heres the remedy,,,even if the gun did look ok it still would not be worth the money you put in to it if you tried to sell it ,,,so sell the original shotgun you still have ,,now im not a double rifle expert but i have had many bolt rifles built by smaller gunsmith shops which i would probably never do again because of wiating and the fact that they dont have a "name" when they are finished , that being said,,, i would save up a little more money and go buy a siace double from griffin and howe to me they look like the best deal out there style wise and all and like most of the italian doubles ,when they first show up on the scene they are priced right then they seem to increase thru the years and eventually you,ll have your loss back ,,griffin recently sold a 458, by casartelli that was one of the nicest "cheap" doubles around at 10k and im sure now that its been sold it wont show up for less any time soon if ever ,,,,, hey 5 years ago i had to buy my wife diamond earings so to offset the jewelry "loss" sort of speak,,i bought myself a 400/350 rigby the same week ,,,i figure in a few years the rigby will appreciate to the piont where the earings will be free ,,i already feel better about it,,,,!!!! paul

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MaxGera
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #209651 - 31/05/12 11:09 AM

Hi, I have never seen anything like this. I could understand someone doing something like this in their garage while trying to learn something...

However, it's beyond my comprehension how anyone would allow anyone else, let alone a customer to ever see it!

Considering his total lack of response to everyone's emails, including mine, maybe a restrained dosage of Harley Davidsons and baseball bats is in order.

--------------------
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DarylS
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: MaxGera]
      #209691 - 01/06/12 12:43 AM

Lets all take a moment to calm down, please. Yes - the job was horrific in the extreme.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Mauser416
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: DarylS]
      #209709 - 01/06/12 05:20 AM

I haven't heard from Jim and didn't really expect to given his past history. I have an ongoing file with the Maine Attorney General's office but even they have problems contacting him. I've filed with the BBB but he apparently isn't a member as they have no record of his business. I have solicited and received a professional assessment of the final product due to the gracious efforts of a fellow forum member. I am endeavoring to obtain a few more in support of my case.

Does anyone know an attorney in Maine who may be willing to take up this case on a contingency basis? As I reside in Texas and Jim is in Maine I cannot even file in small claim's court without physically being present to file and potentially having to return to hear the case or to have someone do so in my stead.

Thank you,
Eric Leeton

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pjaln
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: Mauser416]
      #209714 - 01/06/12 07:27 AM

eric,,,just so we,re not giving maine a bad rep,,let it be known david trevallion of purdeys(london) resides there just out side of york ,,im sure he can build a double !!,,and he may know a lawyer locally too,reach him at ..the gun vault at fox hill,,google it ...paul

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Mauser416
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: pjaln]
      #209718 - 01/06/12 07:39 AM

Pjaln,

Thanks for the heads up. I have nothing against Maine and most of the folks who reside there. I had the pleasure of visiting that neck of the woods several years ago. Hopefully when the kids are out of the nest and educated my wife and I will make it back up there.

Eric

--------------------
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mehulkamdar
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: Mauser416]
      #209722 - 01/06/12 08:39 AM

Eric,

Please contact the Maine Bar Association lawyer referral site. You can call them on their 1-800 number. You should be able to find a lawyer to represent you. It should not be a problem once you find a lawyer whom you are comfortable with. The complaint with the State Attorney general's office would also work.

I hope that you get the problem sorted out at the earliest. Best wishes.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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MaxGera
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: Mauser416]
      #209723 - 01/06/12 08:47 AM

Another thing that you can do, is to contact a Collection Agency and place a claim with them.

Most of them do not require any proof of the debt. They all work strictly on commission, usually 50% and never require money up front.

They will drive him insane.

Also, you can post comments and pictures on his "Wall" on Facebook.

One more thing that you may consider, is to take him to small claims court in Texas, claiming venue based on the fact that you paid him with a check from a Texas bank. When he fails to appear in court, you will get a Default Judgement and can then forward it to a Maine Sheriff, Marshall or Constable for Bank Account and other property seizure.

Max

Edited by MaxGera (01/06/12 09:04 AM)

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Mauser416
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #209724 - 01/06/12 08:49 AM

mehulkamdar,

I have been working with the AG since October and they haven't been able to provide much assistance. With only one or two cases on file their response is limited although the folks in the AG have been doing what they can.

I called the Bar Association today and they have a policy prohibiting them from providing references in Pro Bono cases and state so in the recording you listen to before talking with a live person. They also refuse to make referrals for contingency cases as well. They will only refer once you have agreed to pay for the $25 referral fee and whatever hourly consulting costs the attorney requires. I currently cannot afford to pay consulting fees only to find that the particular attorney will not handle the case and then have to repeat the process "X" number of times before finding someone who will handle the case.

I know there are other folks out there in my predicament or worse. Folks who have sent Jim guns and or money and have not heard from him or have not received their product. I am hoping they will contact the AG and provide the needed impetus to permit the AG to take action. In the meantime I will continue to search for a means to recoup my losses.

Thanks,
Eric

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

Edited by Mauser416 (01/06/12 09:24 AM)

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Mauser416
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: MaxGera]
      #209725 - 01/06/12 08:55 AM

MaxGera,

Good ideas. He has already blocked the guestbook on his web page. If you have the URL you can get there but there is no longer a link. I do not do FaceBook but my daughter does. She was unable to find his facebook page although someone had posted their earlier.

I still do not understand why he refuses to communicate. This was a major problem in the past four plus years. If you have a customer who is not happy you would think a business would attempt to placate the customer by staying in touch and letting them know what is happening. Instead, nothing is said, phone messages are left unanswered and e-mails are not returned. I guess he feels his predicament is as a result of being screwed over by the BATFE and therefore it is not his fault so screw his customers.

--------------------
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pjaln
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: Mauser416]
      #209732 - 01/06/12 11:01 AM

for what its worth ,,,that part of maine may as well be another planet ,,not to throw gas on a fire , but i doubt if you,ll get anyone to actually go there to find him ,,i fly fish the in pittsburgh new hampshire which almost as far north as that part of maine,,and i know how it can be ...paul

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AkMike
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: pjaln]
      #209736 - 01/06/12 12:27 PM

Max Gera can answer with much more knowledge than I on this . BUT can something be done with his federal license for manufacture of firearms or against his `smith licenseing?

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Mauser416
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: AkMike]
      #209926 - 03/06/12 08:10 AM

If anyone has had mis-dealings with Mr. White would you PM me

Thanks,
Eric

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

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PHMadness
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: Mauser416]
      #209933 - 03/06/12 09:49 AM

It would appear he has taken down his Facebook page. I know it was there because I "Un-Liked" it the other day.
I wanted to see if he had gotten any more bad reviews.

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Brithunter
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: PHMadness]
      #209936 - 03/06/12 10:36 AM

Well his website is up and looks all fine and dandy. I did notice that the 45/70 double build was missing the photos ........................... Hmmmm. It's still possible to leave comments on his photo storage site it seems although I didn't try to do so.

Have read the entire thread now and am so saddened. My thoughts on seeing the photos were how dreadful. Mauser416 as already mentioned health comes first. My thoughts and best wishes are with you.

Let's hope that some good can come out of this mess.

Edit:- Just looked at your first post and to my eyes there is no way the barrels you received were the ones in that photo of the gun being tested. No way on Gods earth.

Edited by Brithunter (03/06/12 10:48 AM)

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Mauser416
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Re: J White Gunsmithing - Cigars for all - continued. [Re: Brithunter]
      #209940 - 03/06/12 11:28 AM

Brithunter,

I wanted to thank you and everyone here for their concerns over my health. I have been cancer free for over a year now. I am still contending with the expenses but for all intents and purposes my surgery was a complete success. For the time being I am only contending with lymphedema or swelling in the right leg. I am basically relegated to wearing extra strong pantyhose. Given that i was facing the possibility of incontinence of impotence I will gladly settle with the pantyhose.

I will continue to try to find satisfaction against Mr. White. In this case numbers help. The Maine Attorney General has a limited response with one or two cases. If they get enough complaints then they will initiate legal action. This is one reason I posted. There was a complaint filed four or five years back with the AG. Mr. White basically blew it off and noting happened. IF we can round up a few more dissatisfied customers I think the AG will get involved.

Eric

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

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