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FATBOY404
.400 member


Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
6.5x47Lapua build
      #207701 - 26/04/12 07:19 PM

Tony Small (AFRO408) is going to be building me a 6.5x47 on a Brno ZKK 601 action.

Will be useing the original stock and oil finnishing it myself.

Fitting a 25" #4 Maddco 1 in 8 twist stainless barrel.

Hope it turns out as a walk around varminter and spotlight rig.

Here is the stock after I removed the cheek piece and one sand.


My cases and projectiles.


6-223 loaded with a 70 grainer beside a 123 grain Scenar and 6.5x47 case


6.5x47L loaded to 2.75" (my mag box will handle 2.85")


The rifle has done no work at all and is smooth for a Brno.




--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

Edited by FATBOY404 (26/04/12 07:24 PM)

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JeffK
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Reged: 06/03/11
Posts: 95
Loc: Perth, WA
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: FATBOY404]
      #207708 - 26/04/12 09:01 PM

I'll be interested to see how those Scenar's go on game, cos they're accurate as hell out of my .308 Fly gun!

--------------------
Regards, Jeff

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SharpsNitro
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Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: JeffK]
      #207724 - 27/04/12 06:51 AM

Just curious, why did you choose the 6.5x47 over a 260 Rem? I've been kicking around building a bolt gun in 6.5 but always chase my tail on caliber, originally a three way race between the Lapua, Creedmore and Remington but now I just bounce back and forth between the Lapua and Remington.

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FATBOY404
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Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #207726 - 27/04/12 08:16 AM

Have a read here mate.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek084.html

It is as simlpe as I like European calibers.
Great brass.
Runs at 63 000 psi
Treads on the heals of the 260
Shorter fatter case allows the projectile to be seated out futher.

As a mates says "you can load it with saw dust and it will shoot".

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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DarylS
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Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: FATBOY404]
      #207729 - 27/04/12 09:01 AM

That was interesting link, but, either I missed it or they didn't say what the base case was. One mentioned that it was fatter than the .308 and .260 (they are identical so no need to mention both unless you get paid by the word) - that must mean it's most likely .500" at the head, just like the old .284 Win. parent case to the 6.5x.284 Sako and same size as the .376 Styer - but they also say it's smaller than the .260 Rem- should have said shorter instead as I assume that's what they meant. Larger in diameter but shorter, wiht slighlty less case capacity and higher suggested pressure.


They mention exceeding CIP standards of 63,000 psi - well, there's not much room before primer problems surface so 65,000 is usually the peak for standard case sizes, normally, no matter the strength of the brass itself. By the same token, the .260 can also be brought up to 64,000psi or 65,000, just like the 6.5x47. No advantage there for the 47mm case compared to the 51mm case.

Another mention was that factory ammo was about 100fps slower than the .260 Rem, but also that it possessed better downrange ballistics?

Most everyone knows this isn't possible unless it produces higher velocities with the same bullet - does it? The 130 gr. data provided showed over 2,900fps with 130's - well, guess what my daughter's .260 does- exactlty the same thing except higher speeds with the 123gr. No advantage for the 6.5x47 in ballistics, but no real disadvantage either.

Lapua brass is available for either.

Yes - it would be a cool round/rifle to have, although the 6.5 Creedmore does about the same thing. Do we really need another 6.5 since we have the Creedmore and the .260?

The answer to that should be an emphatic "NO" - but - one may build whatever one desires - ain't it great!

I'm looking forward to hearing how it shoots, Neale.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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SharpsNitro
.375 member


Reged: 12/08/08
Posts: 729
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: FATBOY404]
      #207734 - 27/04/12 10:57 AM

Quote:

Have a read here mate.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek084.html

It is as simlpe as I like European calibers.
Great brass.
Runs at 63 000 psi
Treads on the heals of the 260
Shorter fatter case allows the projectile to be seated out futher.

As a mates says "you can load it with saw dust and it will shoot".


Thanks. If I ever get around to building one it may end up being a coin flip. I'm familiar with Zak Smith's articles, I've read the ones he has on his website for all three cartridges. Interestingly, he is sticking with the 260, maybe because it's the one he started with.


Daryl,

All three cartridges are based off of the 308 case so there is no difference in case head dimensions. The main distinction is Lapua went with the small primer so you could consider it a stretched and necked out 6mmBR. They may have tailored the wall thicknesses some as well to handle the pressures. The main drawback with the Creedmore is the Hornady brass is reputed to have a short life due to the primer pockets loosening up.

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FATBOY404
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Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #207738 - 27/04/12 11:16 AM

Daryl.

I was keen on the Creedmoor but Hornady brass and dies put me off that one.

I think the 260 is probably the best one to build but me being me, I wanted a European cartridge and not the normal stuff. (Yes I am wierd)

I think the short fat case theroy is here to stay and the Lapua is from the same stable.

I will never shoot well enough to pick the difference between a 260, Creedmoor or 6.5x47.

I got my 6.5x47 brass for $97 a 100 and the Scenars for $30 a 100.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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450_Ackley
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Reged: 06/02/03
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Loc: Darling Downs, Qld Australia
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: FATBOY404]
      #207743 - 27/04/12 03:16 PM

Quote:

(Yes I am wierd)



This is just too easy!!

DC

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Homer
.416 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: 450_Ackley]
      #207747 - 27/04/12 06:35 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Fatboy 404, I also have a new 6.5 x 47 Lap barrel for my switch barrel Rem 700.
I now finally have all the components I need to start running the barrel in.
Well every thing but the Time to do it!

A local bloke (RW) has recommended ADI AR 2209 (or equivalent), as the best powder for this cartridge.
And RW should know, as he set a new world record with this cartridge/rifle combination at 1000 yards!

My rifle has a 26" Lilja, #7 profile barrel but is also a 1-8" twist, 3 groove.

Looking forward to punchin a few holes in distant Paper and other Targets, when I finally get it all together!

Thanks for the images of your Brno ZKK and that lovely stick of walnut!
Mmmmmmmmm

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: Homer]
      #207750 - 27/04/12 07:39 PM

Homer - can you tell us the 1,000yard group size and what bullet was used?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Homer
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Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: DarylS]
      #207766 - 28/04/12 06:45 AM

G'Day Daryl,

The Tiny group Richard shot was an unbelievable small 2.067" or 52.5mm at 1000 Yards!
For more details, Google up RichardWild+1000YardRecord.
And sorry, I thought this was a World Record but it was apparently, only an Australian record.

The load Richard used was made up of the following components;
Sierra 142gr Match King Moly coated
40grains of ADI AR-2209
Lapua cases
He doesn't mention Primer make.

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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FATBOY404
.400 member


Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: Homer]
      #207768 - 28/04/12 07:15 AM

450ACKLEY rans some data through "Quickload" for me and here is the results.

Neale,
Ran a few loads for you, went to about 61500 psi, 63400 is listed as maximum.
Used a 25" barrel and a 123 gr Scenar as the bullet for all loads.

AR 2206H - maximum of 37.5 grains for 2935 fps.
AR 2208 - maximum of 38.5 grains for 2911 fps.
AR 2209 - maximum of 44 grains for 2985 fps, but compressed load at 109%.
Reloader 15 - maximum of 38.8 grains for 2954 fps.
Reloader 17 - maximum load of 41.3 grains for 3000 fps.
Winchester 760 - maximum load of 42.8 grains for 3000 fps.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: FATBOY404]
      #207771 - 28/04/12 08:31 AM

2.067" is an excellent group for sure.

Few or maybe 2? years back, the then-current record was broken by a man with a .30 Bauer or Bayer or something like that - on the 8x68S case, using a 187gr. FB match bullet, I'd thought. I saw a picture of the group but unfortunately, I didn't save it to my computer. 4 out of 5 were in 1 1/4". It was something like 1.785" or maybe 1.875"(1-7/8") for 5 shots at 1,000yards.

The next year, which might only have been last summer (memories fuzzy on that), that record was broken with a 5 shot BR, 1,000yard group of around 1.375" and I thougth, again, with a 187gr. FB from a .30 Bauer. I might be wrong on the calibres and ctgs. names - dabnabbit - fuzzy memory.

Interestingly enough, maybe, seems to me the world record .50 cal. group record at 1,000 yards today, is just over or around 3.0".

Even so, that's terrific shooting - imagine.

Years ago, a close friend of mine won the 1,000yard 3-shot BR match at Burns Lake BC (shot on the lake's frozens surface) with his .300 H&H mag. using his #1 Ruger, no less with a 3-9X scope. He just would not believe me when I told him he should have bought a mess of lottery tickets - his 3 shot group was 1.625", that's 1 5/8". Sometimes the planets align and wierd things happen.

I do not know what the .338 Lapua's are doing but recoil wears shooters down, which is why there is a push for efficient, smaller rounds.

I would personally stay with the AR and Reloader series powders. WW760 can create larger swings with temperatures. Larger swings in speed and pressure usually effect accuracy in a negative manner.

In ctgs. that do well with Varget and H4895, I tend to stay with them - nice level ballistics.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: DarylS]
      #207772 - 28/04/12 08:53 AM

I have a 6.5x47. It is a .473 case head i.e. the same as a 6mmBR or .308Win
It was specifically designed by Lapua in conjunction with Grunig & Elmiger rifles to outperform the 6mmBR Norma in 300m CISM competition, which is a rapid fire version of the 300m standard match competition. However, it seems to also be delivering the goods all the way out to 1000yds and I'm sure will stay the course...

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SharpsNitro
.375 member


Reged: 12/08/08
Posts: 729
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #207775 - 28/04/12 10:07 AM

I've been working with a custom AR-15 upper in 6.5mmBR. So far, the sweet spot load has been avoiding me, at a max load of Varget the best I can do is maybe a 3/4" group at 100 yards. I've tried the 123gr SMK, A-max and Scenars. I'm going to start loading down in stages to see if I can find the accuracy node. Then I'll have to open up the gas port a bit, it has a standard mid-length port and it barely cycles. This thing is a lot more work than a bolt gun to get it to shoot. If I ever get it figured out its going to be a lot of fun. I've been tempted to call GA Precision and LaRue Tactical to see if they will build one of their AR-10s in 6.5x47, GAP builds them in 260 already.

Edited by SharpsNitro (28/04/12 10:13 AM)

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Homer
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Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: SharpsNitro]
      #207777 - 28/04/12 10:51 AM

G'Day Fella's,

Sharps Nitro, you may want to shoot your 6.5 x 47 at a longer range, as it may shoot smaller groups at the longer ranges?

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #207781 - 28/04/12 12:08 PM

Quote:

I have a 6.5x47. It is a .473 case head i.e. the same as a 6mmBR or .308Win
It was specifically designed by Lapua in conjunction with Grunig & Elmiger rifles to outperform the 6mmBR Norma in 300m CISM competition, which is a rapid fire version of the 300m standard match competition. However, it seems to also be delivering the goods all the way out to 1000yds and I'm sure will stay the course...



THAT's what I really wanted to hear. Built on the standard, shortened .308 case.
It should be a great ctg., very efficient.

Since we were getting 3,308fps with 120XLC's in Carol's (my daughter's) .260 CLC, before shortening it to .260 Rem, I might just improve the .260 to get the same ballistics again.

To me, the recoil felt the same as a normal .260 and 3,300fps with a 123gr. Match bullet might be the ticket for longer range shooting. I'ts not a match rifle, however seems to want to be consistant at about .350" with the Barnes solid copper bullets. It still makes the same accuracy with the 120's in it's current chambering of .260Rem., but has only a 9" twist. I suspect the shorter bullets are not going to demand a faster twist - we'll see.
Jeff Lawrence Barrel.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Homer
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Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: DarylS]
      #207786 - 28/04/12 04:04 PM

G'Day Fella's,

Daryl, the 6.5 x 47 Lap case is similar to a .250 Savage case (necked up) but far more robust, to cope with the higher pressures!

Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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JabaliHunter
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Reged: 16/05/07
Posts: 1958
Loc: England
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: Homer]
      #207795 - 28/04/12 07:34 PM

I should add that it uses a small rifle primer, which I believe was found to be more consistent accuracy wise in this case, but may also be a factor in enabling the cartridge to handle high pressure.

Mine is set up with a 20in barrel and suppressor, which I use as my winter deer rifle. With 37-38gr of N150 and 123gr bullets I am getting excellent accuracy and just over 2850fps which is what I built the rifle to achieve. It shoots well and I get full burn before the bullet hits the suppressor, but with a longer 25in barrel I think it could achieve more.

For 1000yds, the 130gr berger or 139 scenar have a good reputation with N550 - a load I was given by a Lapua team shooter was 39.8gr N550 with CCI450 and 139 scenars for just shy of 3000fps, but this was in a 31in barrel. He advised starting at 39gr with 130 bergers but I'm sure that he assumes a modern target/benchrest type action, so be warned!

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DarylS
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Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: JabaliHunter]
      #207808 - 29/04/12 02:32 AM

Thanks Homer.

The basic .473" rim, .469" or .470" base diameter case(however it happens to be listed by whomever is writing the specs) design easily handles 64,000psi to 65,000psi - even though the SAAMI and CIP pressures are below that.

Small rifle primer pockets came out for match shooting in the .308 basic case for shortening or necking forthe BR rounds, some time ago. It is only logical they would use them in the 6.5x47.

I made up some of my .22BR brass with small rifle pockets and others with standard pockets. It was a match rifle, not a BR rifle. I could not shoot the difference, but then, I was happy with 3/8" for 10 shot, 100 meter groups with metalic sights. As to better handling pressure - I don't think so as the primer is the weak link and large rifle primers have heavier cups. Loads that gave small rifle primer problems in my BR, were duplicated for speed with large primers without any signs of excessive pressure.

It could be they are used mainly for more even pressure curves or consistancy. This is usually a big deal in smaller capacity rounds.

I do know that the small pocket .243's blown out and necked to 22's (Clark, etc), have ignition problems and big SD's in cool weather.

That slightly smaller 6.5 is probably a wonderful round - don't get me wrong - I'd just prefer a bit more speed is all. A 6.5x57Ack. IMP will duplicate the 6.5x.284 and would be more inline with my choice for a 1,000 yard rifle, whereas the 6.5x47 would probably win me out for a 600yard postition rifle.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: DarylS]
      #207814 - 29/04/12 06:07 AM

The 6.5x47 is certainly a noteworthy 6.5 cartridge, but - but - but -----

I have been going through the whole 6.5 debate with myself for some time now and have come down firmly in the 6.5 Grendel camp, for the purposes I see such a rifle being used. Using a Zastave mod 85 mini mauser action with the 123gn A max in a 20 inch barrel set into a light weight stock carrying a 2-7 Leupold, it would be a dandy hill rifle.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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Homer
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Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 3081
Loc: Canberra, Australia
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: DarylS]
      #207827 - 29/04/12 10:21 AM

Quote:

Thanks Homer.

That slightly smaller 6.5 is probably a wonderful round - don't get me wrong - I'd just prefer a bit more speed is all. A 6.5x57Ack. IMP will duplicate the 6.5x.284 and would be more inline with my choice for a 1,000 yard rifle, whereas the 6.5x47 would probably win me out for a 600yard postition rifle.

Daryl




G'Day Fella's,

Daryl, don't forget one of the most Underrated 6.5mm"s, the Almost Forgotten 6.5 Rem Magnum!
When I get a chance to scratch myself, I would like to re-barrel an old BSA Royal action to to this cartridge! Ballistically, it outdoes the 6.5-284 by a useful amount (and still in a short action)!!!


Doh!
Homer

--------------------
"Beware the Lolly Pop of Mediocrity,
Lick it Once and You Will Suck Forever"

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Rockdoc
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Reged: 07/12/06
Posts: 1213
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: Homer]
      #207849 - 29/04/12 10:14 PM

Gee it is great to see all the 6.5mm interest.

I have a 260Rem (Kimber Montana) and can now get Lapua cases for it.

I also have a hankering for a fullwood European 6.5mm. Never ends does it!

I am impressed with the Lapua brass.

With the way I am shooting lately, I think I would be impressed with that 1000yd group at 200yds

Cheers, Chris

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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
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Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: Rockdoc]
      #207913 - 01/05/12 09:46 AM

This is a must see for all you 6.5x47 lovers and for anybody else that just loves to see great machine work.Music anit bad either. Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1opz3d97iY8&feature=related

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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SharpsNitro
.375 member


Reged: 12/08/08
Posts: 729
Loc: Arizona, USA
Re: 6.5x47Lapua build [Re: VonGruff]
      #207916 - 01/05/12 11:21 AM

Interesting video, thanks.

I've got a Badger Ordnance M2008 action on the way for a 6.5x47 project. My plan is to have Bechmark barrel it, not sure of the details yet, I'll need to talk it over with Ron when I drop it off up there. For a stock my first choice of a JAE-700 isnt going to happen, they have a 10-12 month backlog and they have not adapted to that action yet. I'll have to decide between an AI AICS or KRG W3C. It will be interesting to see how it turns out, Midway had a sale on the brass so now I'm considering the caliber "locked in" so I don't flip-flop every day or so.

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