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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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Grenadier
.375 member


Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Patterning the new Paradox gun
      #207351 - 19/04/12 08:43 AM

A while back I posted about the new gun. Shortly afterward, Mike B. asked to see something on the patterning. Well, here you go Mike.

I have used the gun on three days of clay shooting, Los Angeles and Atlanta. I have also shot it at clays at home. Today I thought I would take a look at the pattern it throws. For the sake of simplicity, I shot all of the patterned loads from the right barrel. If there is a difference between the two barrels, I would expect it to be negligible.

I patterned two different loads. All shots were taken at a measured 40 yards (a long way). A 30" circle was made over the densest part of the pattern. I did not use a chart to determine the number of pellets in the cartridges. Instead, I cut them open and counted - whew!

H&H 'Royal' Game, 1oz of UK #6/USA #7, fiber wad (Gamebore)
Brisk (~1260fps)
Average 43% of shot in a 30" circle at 40 yards.
I would call that Improved Cylinder

H&H Light Load, 15/16oz of USA #7.5/UK #7, fiber wad (HULL)
Moderate (~1180fps)
Average 52% of shot in a 30" circle at 40 yards.
I would call that Light Modified

Here is a photo of a typical pattern with the H&H Light Load.



After shooting many, many shotgun shells out of a total of five H&H Paradox guns I have come to the conclusion that moderate loads do better than fast loads and light loads do better than heavy loads. Today's results are in support of my personal experience.

Also, it is interesting that the pellets much beyond the 30" center of mass go wide and far. They are either in there or they are gone. Perhaps this is because of the Paradox rifling. No matter, a nice 30" pattern at 40yds is all you need.

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Edited by CptCurl (12/06/12 08:40 PM)


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26513
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Patterning the new Paradox gun [Re: Grenadier]
      #207353 - 19/04/12 09:07 AM

Grenadier - as long as the shot cloud is relatively short, that looks like a nice 45 to 47 yard grouse pattern to me.

Looks like it's probably a bit low the way you were holding - using the sights, perhaps? A more normal shotgun hold should being up the pattern - you're way ahead of those who don't pattern their guns to see where and how they are shooting.
Thanks for posting your results.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Patterning the new Paradox gun [Re: DarylS]
      #207376 - 19/04/12 04:59 PM

Thanks a lot Grenadier, that is a good pattern at 40 yds, I pattern at 30, good to see it, thx again, best

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Grenadier
.375 member


Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: Patterning the new Paradox gun [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #207381 - 19/04/12 10:12 PM

I used 40 yards because that is the most common patterning distance here in the USA and is the distance listed in choke charts. 40 yards is a long shot and 30 yards is a more realistic shooting distance, to be sure. I will be doing more tests and will post the results.

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CommandCar
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Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA
Re: Patterning the new Paradox gun [Re: DarylS]
      #207387 - 19/04/12 11:13 PM

Quote:

Grenadier - as long as the shot cloud is relatively short, that looks like a nice 45 to 47 yard grouse pattern to me.

Looks like it's probably a bit low the way you were holding - using the sights, perhaps? A more normal shotgun hold should being up the pattern - you're way ahead of those who don't pattern their guns to see where and how they are shooting.
Thanks for posting your results.




G-,

I too would like to know if the patterns are hitting high, low, right, or left. Furthermore, are the barrels regulated to strike to same POA?

In the limited patterning I have done, I find 28 gram (1 oz.) Gamebore to be the best in my Evans, but the pattern centers are slightly low. I believe this is due to excessive velocity, but have not persued this much. That being said, I shoot fairly well on phesant and sporting clays with the standard gamebore round.

I will ask Lewis Drake bring up some of the Holland light loads you speak of to try this summer.

After reading the Paradox piece in African Rifles & Cartridges, I was interested in loading a few #1 Buckshot loads for the Evans. Using available data, I loaded a small variety concotions listed at less than 8,500 PSI. The loads were fairly fast, but I do not remember the advertised velocities. All of the initial loads shot very low at 25 yards. I have not gone back to the drawing board, but I suspect I need to slow things down a little.

Thank You for the report.


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Grenadier
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Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: Patterning the new Paradox gun [Re: CommandCar]
      #207796 - 28/04/12 09:22 PM

I thought I would throw in a photo of the gun in use. As the weather clears I will do more on paper and post the results.




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Edited by CptCurl (12/06/12 08:41 PM)


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Grenadier
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Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
More Tests - Patterning the new Paradox gun [Re: Grenadier]
      #208120 - 07/05/12 01:09 PM

I have already counted pellets in a 30" circle at 40 yards to determine what the "rifled choke" was producing. So, today, I wanted to see what sort of patterns I was getting at a more realistic 30 yards and where they the pellets are hitting.

The setup. I folded butcher paper so that it gave me a 24"x24" square containing four 12"x12" squares. With some additional folds I had a quadrant system made up of horizontal, vertical, and diagonal lines running through the center of the big square.

I used a 3"x3" red sticker as a "focusing" point. I didn't aim at the sticker. Instead I looked at it, brought the gun up, pointed, and shot when it seemed right to shoot.



I thought about elevation. We don't often shoot just a few feet above ground level. So, I put the target in a location that would make it about 18 feet higher than the position I was shooting from. That isn't very high but it is probably about as high as I end up shooting most walked up birds and a better shooting test than just firing at shoulder level.



This time the targets were not shot to determine how many or what percentage of the pellets were striking within a given area. I already did that above. I now wanted to determine the general point of impact of the pattern. Accordingly, three shots were fired on each target. I did this to average out inconsistencies in my shooting technique (mitigate imprecise shooting) and to make the areas of shot concentration easier to see.

First, I fired some of the 15/16oz Light Loads at a distance of 25 yards. For these shots I pulled the trigger while keeping the red sticker in focus and visible the whole time. As a result, the shots were all fired low. Therefore, please disregard the low elevation because it was "operator error" . What I discovered was, that at that distance and with that load, the right barrel shot to the left of where the gun was pointed. I repeated the test three times and confirmed this with the same results. I think this was happening because the Light Loads weren't producing enough recoil for the gun to shoot to where it was regulated to shoot (see the next test).







Next, I tried some 1-1/16oz Holland & Holland 'Royal' Game loads and moved out to 30 yards. I also changed the way I was shooting. This time I pulled the trigger just as the gun covered the red sticker. I remember the instructor at the H&H shooting grounds telling me to do this and I remember it worked well there. As you can see, the shot hit right where it was supposed to. These loads produced more recoil and must be closer to what the gun was regulated for. I think these are some very nice patterns and spot on. It never ceases to amaze me how one can get patterns so nice from a Paradox gun in spite of the rifled choke.





All targets would show better point of impact if I could shoot more consistently. I'm still learning.

I like the ease with which I was able to set this up. I also like the way that I can get such a nice 24" square with quadrants just by folding the paper. I will use this method again.



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Edited by CptCurl (12/06/12 08:42 PM)


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CommandCar
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Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA
Re: More Tests - Patterning the new Paradox gun [Re: Grenadier]
      #208139 - 08/05/12 04:59 AM

Grenadier,

That's great work, thanks for sharing.


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26513
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: More Tests - Patterning the new Paradox gun [Re: CommandCar]
      #208167 - 09/05/12 01:29 AM

Looking really good with that heavier load. Well done.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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