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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Opinions needed on a new double
      #20597 - 07/11/04 11:18 PM

OK guys, I have decided to replace my user unfriendly H&H with either a Searcy, Chapius, Heym, or William Douglas. I would appreciate any and all input from those familiar with the above rifles. I have grown tired of buying an English guns at inflated prices and still having a rifle that needs thousands of dollars in restoration work.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: nitro476]
      #20607 - 08/11/04 03:40 AM

nitro476,

I am not sure which country you are in as your profile doesn't show it
so these are generic comments.

Could you explain further this comment. - "I have grown tired of buying an English
guns at inflated prices and still having a rifle that needs thousands of dollars in restoration work."

Firstly, my friends and I who own English guns (doubles) - I would say all are now worth more
than what we paid for them.

Secondly, I ALWAYS get an English Double I buy looked at by my gunsmith - stripped, cleaned,
sears checked and adjusted, firing pins redone etc etc. All in all no gun has ever cost me more than
Aus $1000 but I consider it money well spent as I tend to stand in front of DG every year and I like to know
my gun is going to work. (Restocks are an exception to the above but I haven't had to do one yet.

I do NOT consider Aus $1000 "thousands of dollars in restoration work".

IF you have had to spend "thousands of dollars in restoration work", maybe the price paid for the
guns you bought was reflective of the fact that work needed to be done. I can think of numerous
doubles I have been offered at very low prices that needed "thousands of dollars in restoration work"
but that is not what I do. I do know people who bought them, had them done up well and now they
are great guns owned by someone who appreciates it.

IN regards to Searcy, Chapius, Heym, or William Douglas.

Searcy - I am not knowledgeable enough to comment and plenty of others on this forum who I trust
will have good comments to say and the experience to back it up (Gratuitous comments from US based
poster welcome as always !!! - not that I need to say this as I am sure they will come thick and fast)

Chapius - I am not knowledgeable enough to comment - from those I have seen, you get what you pay for.
My friend has a 9.3 x 74 which shoots well and is OK - I personally would not own one.

Heym - I am not knowledgeable enough to comment - from those I have seen, you get what you pay for.

William Douglas - I have a 470 BL Ejector - I like the gun, it shoots really well (as do all the William Douglas
guns I have seen) and is a good light gun to carry. Well balanced.

Anyway, hope this helps.

500 Nitro


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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: nitro476]
      #20611 - 08/11/04 04:08 AM

I have to echo 500Nitro. Your comments seem odd. If you have to spend thousands of dollars and you have paid too much for the rifle it can seem to be a large investment. I bought one Holland in 465 and put close to US$13,000 into it for a new stock, Rejointed Barrels, new Hinge Pin, Reengraved and Reblacked. I sold it for US$35,000, making close US$18,000 on the deal. The buyer still has it and sends me pictures of what he shoots every year with it.

Be that as it may I think that if all you want is a shooter any of the ones mentioned will work. Pigs in a Blanket so to speak.

I think you will be surprised at the lack of workmanship and finish and as 500Nitro says, you do get what you pay for. None of those guns will be sold for what you pay for them. They are what they are. The bottom end of the Double Rifle Market.

You did ask for opinions and that is dangerous here.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: mickey]
      #20612 - 08/11/04 05:02 AM

476nitro,

By all means send me a PM with your email and I will send you my email address
in case you want to ask me something.

Suggestion for you.

Get into a circle of people (Ray Atkinson is one I can think of - Ray - I hope you don't mind
me saying this) who are:-
1. Knowledgeable on English and / or the other guns (Searcy, Heym, Merkel, Krieghoff, Chapuis etc etc)
2. Have EXPERIENCE shooting them in the field
3. Are generally NOT gun dealers by profession

I get numerous phone calls asking me my opinion on double rifles, do I have anything for sale
(which is generally no as I don't often sell guns), can I check this gun out for someone,
can I shoot this for someone etc etc. I happily share my knowledge and Ray and others
I know on this and the AR forum will readily do the same.

JUST BE CAREFUL WHO YOU LISTEN TO - Their are a lot of people on forums
who think they know and don't know but even worse, they don't know their limitations
of both knowledge and experience.

In regards to mickey's comment about and in reference to my previous post - if you buy a "down in condition"
gun and spend the time, effort and money doing it up, (and believe me, it takes alot of all 3), then you expect
A RETURN ON INVESTMENT. JUST MAKE SURE IF YOU BUY A "DOWN IN CONDITION" GUN
that what you pay for it and what you sink into it (money for work required) is NOT more than
what the whole gun is worth in the first place.

FYI and to show non bias and that I am not an Anglophile,
apart from English doubles, I own 2 Merkel BLNE Double Rifles ,1 x Saraquita SLE (Spanish ?).

NONE of the above will significantly increase in value in time (if at all)
- I bought them solely as THRASH guns to take where it is wet, they could get stolen etc etc.

Anyway, I hope this helps. Comments are NOT meant as criticisms, just trying to pass on
my limited knowledge and point you in the right direction.


500 Nitro


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: mickey]
      #20613 - 08/11/04 05:19 AM

In reply to:

if all you want is a shooter any of the ones mentioned will work. PIGS IN A BLANKET SO TO SPEAKI think you will be surprised at the lack of workmanship and finish and as 500Nitro says, YOU DO GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR . None of those guns will be sold for what you pay for them. They are what they are. THE BOTTOM OF THE DOUBLE RIFLE MARKET.





Mickey is right if all you want is a rifle that works, and is reliable without worry, then the PIGS will serve you well. If you want to depend on them to guard your life, then the PIGS will serve well! Some better than others. Of those mentioned the B Searcy PH model, Heym and the W. Douglas, are the ones I would consider of those you mention, but you can add the 140-1 470NE Merkel to this group. If I had to choose one of them all, then it would be the Heym 88,or the W douglas, at $16K US, or the Searcy PH, at $10K US. The Heym 88,I have owned, and absolutly loved it! However, considering the price difference, I would most likely buy the Searcy PH, in 470. One word here, I don't buy double rifles to sell, I buy them to hunt with, and the Heym, or Searcy will do anything the Britts will, and in fact, are better regulated in some cases!

I own, and have owned many Britt doubles, both rifles, and shotguns, and I collect Westley Richards doubles. Mickey is right they are, every one, worth more than I paid for them, but I have several German, and other Europien doubles that are worth far more than I paid for them, as well.




In reply to:

You did ask for opinions and that is dangerous
here.




I KNOW THAT'S RIGHT!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: mickey]
      #20614 - 08/11/04 05:28 AM

Thanks Mickey and 500 nitro for your input. When I am talking about restoration I am referring to having the receiver and associated furniture re-color case hardened. The barrels re-blacked and the action gone thru and all pieces hand polished. I had a couple of doubles restocked, one because it was necessary and the other because it was butt ugly! A restock job by a top stockmaker runs around 2300.00 US plus the price of the blank. I always have a new pad installed and covered with leather, 250.00 US. To rebalck the barrels runs 500.00, the action work can easily run 1,000 to 1,500. To recolor the action and niter blue the associated parts will run on the average of 600.00. I have always got a decent return on these guns but the waiting time to have the work PROPERLY done can easily take a year or more. The worse gun I ever dealt with was the Dominion grade 465 I just sold. This thing had more ongoing problems than a Testarossa Ferrari, ( I know this as a fact as I have had one) and I was thrilled to get rid of it. Sorry boys but Hollands are terribly overated and I would not own another! My Westley would shoot circles aroun the H&H and never was there a minutes problem with it. The same would go for my old Rigby in 470. After owning 28 of double rifles and due to tiring of haveing them corrected to how I want them, I am toying with the idea of getting one of the continent guns for a trial run. I must also say that the supply of good English guns has dried up in the last few years. It is very difficult to locate a decent gun for a wholesale price. I refuse to pay retail for any gun and the prices in the US are through the roof.

Edited by nitro476 (08/11/04 05:45 AM)


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: nitro476]
      #20618 - 08/11/04 05:53 AM


nitro476

It seems you know more than you let on in your posts.

Your quote - "I have always made a profit on selling used English shotguns and or rifles.
Buying at an auction is the last place to buy anything. I have watched as idiots paid a greater price for
a used item than it costs new! They seem to get auction fever and ultimately pay too much."

Then if you know pricing and people who overpay, why are you saying
"I have grown tired of buying an English guns at inflated prices"

AND

"I have always made a profit on selling used English shotguns and or rifles
Are you not one who is selling at inflated prices ????

Also, your quote again "I really like Butch Searcy's rifles but am a
little hesitant as anything but English double rifles are difficult to sell."

Then why are you buying a Searcy, Heym, Merkel, Chauis etc etc etc.

I hate to say it but you have contradicted yourself in your two posts
multiple times.

500 Nitro



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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: nitro476]
      #20620 - 08/11/04 06:10 AM

476nitro

Firstly, 20 years ago no one wanted English doubles and I am afraid to say
that it is the US market that has increased / inflated prices.

In regards to your post,
"I refuse to pay retail for any gun and the prices in the US are through the roof."

It seems you make a living out of gun buying and trading - therefore don't you have
to accept the consequences of your decisions and aren't you part of the problem (see next paragraph).

"When I am talking about restoration I am referring to having the receiver and associated furniture
re-color case hardened. The barrels re-blacked and the action gone thru and all pieces hand polished."
WHY DO ALL THIS WORK ??? IMHO, I think you are putting too much money into the gun
and frankly, I wish people in the US would leave guns as they are.

"It is very difficult to locate a decent gun for a wholesale price." What is a wholesale price
on a used English double ?

How come I buy guns in the US from Australia and when I have finsihed with them
(shooting, testing, trying them out, getting more experiecne", I have no problem selling them ???
I currently have 5 guns in the US and am in the process of buying 2 more doubles in the next week.
Your pricing can't be that high ?

I currently own 26 doubles (23 English), have probably owned 30 - 40 and ONLY
1 didn't shoot (the one with the loose rib). I have also helped people regulate (by shooting)
doubles that supposedly didn't shoot, including a 465 H&H Double in the US that the owner
said wouldn't shoot (he purchased it from Australia)- it took 3 weeks by EMAIL but by walking
him through the process, he had it shooting well enough that he went to Africa and shot an Elephant.

In regards to problems like your H&H dominion, don't tar all H&H's with the same brush.
I know of a double rifle that was in Australia that doubled on firing, the owner rather stupidly sold
it cheap and it took the English gun maker 15 minutes to fix the problem.

500 Nitro


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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: nitro476]
      #20639 - 08/11/04 11:19 AM

Looking over some stats on posts on this forum, it is evident that this issue of British Doubles vs Modern European and American made doubles, is what gets the juices flowing here!

Look at the figures on these threads!

"H&H and Purdey vs Searcy" - 835 views/35 posts
"Butch Searcy's Double Rifles" - 2757 views/103 posts
"A double rifle affordable for everyone" -1118 views/65posts.

Read through them and your will see the same range views, often with commercial connotations, repeated ad nauseum.

Heaven forbid that debate should be stifled - afterall that's what pays the bills in the web - but - why is there any need to squeeze every last drop of blood out of this issue?

I can't think of an other "commodity" where antique or vintage collectables are compared with products of recent manufacture.

Would a serious car collector actively consider the relative merits of a Speed-Six Bentley and a Ferrari?? No -because his interests would put them at both ends of the spectrum, and he would opt for whatever "rocks his boat"!

Or, if he just want something to get from A to B, he will probably buy a Hyundai!

Nobody would presume to tell him what's best for him, and I so it should be for double rifles.....

British doubles?..."love 'em or leave 'em"...and the more that are left..the more I like it...because there will be more for me!


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: 470Rigby]
      #20640 - 08/11/04 12:00 PM


Well said

Let's not compare old versus new - no one will ever win.

470Rigby - I'll go along with your comment as the final say

"British doubles?..."love 'em or leave 'em"...and the more that are left..the more I like it...
because there will be more for

ME!"


500 Nitro


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39804
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: 500Nitro]
      #20642 - 08/11/04 12:25 PM

I think some of the comments in this thread have been a little harsh on newly made double rifles.

In the past we have also seen some pretty ridiculous comments in favour of particular brands and they read so much like a paid commercial advertisement (PS If anyone is running hidden advertisements they need to drop me an email to discuss advertising fees ).

But as the last comments have said, everyone to their own. IMO a new double is a worthwhile shooting rifle, just as is a vintage double in good condition, plus a bit of nostalgia. And prices for both could go either way believe it or not.

The best solution is to have at least one of each and enjoy what you own and are using.

Personally just like wine which I buy to drink, not to re-sell, I don't buy double rifles to sell as an investment. After a lifetime of buffalo, hopefully elephant and other assorted game, my children and grand-children can do the same (I hope!).


--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: 500Nitro]
      #20655 - 08/11/04 09:07 PM

Now pay attention and you can get this straight:

1.I do not make a living from buying and selling. I have had an FFL and importers license for 25 years.

2. I like things a certain way and very often work that needs to be done is not evident right away. I don't like to see a receiver that was originally color case hardened,to be blued. If the action springs, stirrups, anvils and the like are rusted then they must be corrected! If the hinge pin is worn it needs to be replaced, not by piecing the hook which is so common. I for one do like the looks of a rifle or shotgun that has been used and abused for years up on end and neither do most buyers.

In regards to your question, what is wholesale pricing, that is one I would rather keep to myself. I think you can understand why.

When some guy wants 15,000 to 18,000 for a boxlock, that price is too high!

In regards to H&H I am of the opinion that they are overated. I have used a few of their shotguns that were also troublesome as well. I have never had any problems with Purdey or Boss guns and I am sure that some people drool over Hollands. I for one, do not share their views.

The quick fix doubling problem you described was most likely a sear adjustment. On the other hand the Southgate lock system that Holland uses are very sensitive and should be adjusted once a year wether the gun is used or not. They have a tendency to make minute " moves " as the springs age. I can also tell you that I did not sell the gun cheap!

Furthermore I am not taking shots at you for your opinion, so don't do it to me! Opinions are like assholes and everyone has one. Keep that in mind.


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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: 500Nitro]
      #20656 - 08/11/04 09:21 PM

I have watched guys at SCI plunk down good money to one of the English gunmakers for a piece that is in dire need of work. A classic example was a guy who paid 21,000 for a C&H in 450 nitro. First of C&H guns are extremely problematic as their lock systems are very complex and "different to work on. This particular rifle was in terrible physical condition and would require a considerable amount of money to put it in shape.

Prices continue to rise for inferior products due to supply and demand. I will wait for the prices to come down as they always do on any item.

I have always priced my guns fairly and have never inflated the prices. I don't need to do this and I would rather have a piece turnover quickly rather than sit on it.

Searcy and the like are probably great using guns but if I don't like it after I have purchased it, then it would have to be re-sold. That is not an easy proposition.


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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: 500Nitro]
      #20657 - 08/11/04 09:26 PM

I also forgot to mention that I am fairly knowledgeable regarding English guns. I can and have taken them apart and stripped the actions down. I am not familiar with the European or US made guns, hence my question.

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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: nitro476]
      #20663 - 09/11/04 02:24 AM

Concerning new double rifles.

Can you shoot handloaded ammo in your new double and not void the warranty?

For one US maker this voids the warranty.

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!

DRSS


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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: Rusty]
      #20667 - 09/11/04 03:22 AM

Who?

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: nitro476]
      #20670 - 09/11/04 05:34 AM

speaking of warranties... Chapuis is the only one that offers a life-time warranty on their double rifles.

Their "double under-hook" is a little unorthadox, but combined with their warranty - it must speak to the faith they have in this system.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com


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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: bonanza]
      #20671 - 09/11/04 05:43 AM

Searcy.

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!

DRSS


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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: Rusty]
      #20676 - 09/11/04 07:27 AM

Hello Rusty,

How the hell are you doing?


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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: nitro476]
      #20681 - 09/11/04 08:04 AM

For an old balding fat man on the downhill slide of a mediorce career, not too bad. And you?

Been well thanks.

Just finished a load for David's Jeffery a 475#2 Jeffery. The old girl is still roaring!
500 grain Woodleigh, 95 grains of RL-15+2.5 grains of Dacron filler, BELL cases.

Test fired some Noslers 260 Partition and Accubonds from the Whitworth and Safari Express this past weekend. For 2nds they printed one ragged hole at 50 yards. Velocity a mild 2348.



--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!

DRSS


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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: Rusty]
      #20686 - 09/11/04 08:57 AM

I am fine thanks. It would appear that you are having a good time. I am, unfortunately having a lot of crap done in the house which is a major pain in the rear. It seems to take forever to get anything done!

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3579
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: nitro476]
      #20710 - 09/11/04 11:02 PM

One of the marvellous things about this forum is that the members represent a wide diversity of opinion, experience, and personal taste concerning double rifles.

However, I chuckle to myself whenever Brit doubles are accused of being worn out or stuffed, needing thousands of dollars worth of restoration, or some other mysterious chantings or black magic to put them right. (..this, after 50 to 100 years of hard shooting, mind!) Personally, I seek out such rifles for 3 reasons: 1. they may still be within my price-range; 2. they haven't been 'truly stuffed' by some over-enthusiastic gun-restorer; 3. I really enjoy a gun which wears its history and past accomplishments well.

So-called faults like a loose action, for instance, are easily fixed. Re-regulation, if required, is a no-brainer. Triggers and locks can simply be adjusted. The only real problem that can't be easily fixed is bore condition. If the bores are stuffed, and the individual barrels won't group, then forget it. Everything else is fixable, and the more obvious the faults, the easier to negotiate a good price!

Personally, I cringe at the ghastly electric-purple re-colouring I see on so-called restoration jobs, likewise a perfect stock finish on a rifle which has obviously seen a campaign or two. Double rifles are first and foremost for hunting and shooting. If they have been fully restored to fine condition, and carry the price-tag to prove it, they are more often than not relegated to 3D oil painting status, and their hunting days are over.

I prefer a rifle with plenty of wear and tear, I can afford to buy it, I can afford to own it, and I can afford to take it hunting. I can shoot the hell out of it, in fact, with a perfectly clear conscience. A hunting rifle gets dragged through the swamps, carried through pissing thunder-storms, covered in bloody fingerprints, mud, and dirt, and may sometimes have to go a day or two without seeing an oily rag. I KNOW most Brit doubles will take this in their stride. They were designed and built for use in the far-flung outposts of Empire, to go for years without seeing a gunsmith, to be absolutely drenched in sweat and blood, and carried through the most extreme tropical climates on the planet. I know they will cope because that's what happens to mine!

I can also understand buying a Searcy for exactly the same reason!

However:
...next time you're desperate to off-load a crook pommie double, Nitro476, just give me a call!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: Marrakai]
      #20713 - 09/11/04 11:33 PM

I don't know where you hunt but I can say that " In all my trips to Africa, I have never had rain pouring on me and in the evening there was always an oily rag to wipe down the exterior of the rifle". I sold the Holland for 35,000 US and had I known you were in the market, I would have called you.

In regards to refinishing, it all depends on who does the work. Color case hardening is how the bulk of the rifles came from the factory and is " how they were meant to look ". The St Ledgers in London do an excellent job of re-coloring and have been in business many years due to this fact. There are also a couple of fellows in the US who can duplicate the original colors as well.

Loose actions are not easily fixed if done properly. Piecing the hook is not the way to do it. Nor is throwing a burr or two upon the pin or the hook to " tighten the fit ".

Triggers and locks are not always in a condition to be adjusted. If the wear is significant the part or spring has to be remade.

Again, all in ones taste. I could not see driving around in a Porsche with a crunched in fender or having a nice house with a yard that is a total mess. Just my personality and how I like things done.


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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: nitro476]
      #20723 - 10/11/04 01:52 AM

nitro476,

"I don't know where you hunt but I can say that In all my trips to Africa, I have never had rain pouring
on me and in the evening there was always an oily rag to wipe down the exterior of the rifle".

I hunt with Marrakai and others and believe me, what he says is true. On one trip we left and started
walking at approx 6.00am, 30+++ degree heat all day so sweat all over the rifle, the heavens opened up
in the late afternoon and pissed on us for a while (we were so wet with sweat it didn't really matter anyway)
but everythig including the guns (we were both carrying doubles) got saturated. HOWEVER, because of the way
we both set up our doubles, apart from outside wear, nothing got damaged on the guns. We walked into camp at
approx 6 - 7pm. 12 hours and although I carried an oily rag and kept wiping down my gun, t didn't make
any difference. Last year I also had to carry my A&N 500 Nitro up to my thighs in mud so I could get to have a
go at a huge buffalo. Regardless of what I did, the gun still ended up with mud / water on it. (I probably
concentrated on looking out for Crocodiles and not falling over !!!)

Sometimes we go out and don't come back at night (camp overnight).

"There are also a couple of fellows in the US who can duplicate the original colors as well."
I haven't seen many guns or photos that "duplicate the original colors" that well (just look at some of
the RCCH guns photographed and printed in the Double Gun Journal). We also have someone over
here who RCCH and again, I don't think they "duplicate the original colors" that well either so it is
not just a US thing.

"Loose actions are not easily fixed if done properly. Piecing the hook is not the way to do it."

I agree that throwing a burr or two upon the pin or the hook to " tighten the fit " is NOT the way
to tighten a gun but the British are the ones who started "Piecing the hook" or putting a dovetail
or shell bearing in the hook so why is it not right ??? You can't always get the pin out due to the design.
Qualification - Where the Hingepin can be removed and replaced or built up, I prefer doing this
to the above, but it is not always possible.

"Triggers and locks are not always in a condition to be adjusted. If the wear is significant the part or
spring has to be remade."

Of 30+ double rifles I have owned or do own, the majority of them have gone through my gunsmith.
1 has a loose rib and doesn't shoot but everything else on the gun is fine.
1 has been tightened
Every single other one has been stripped, cleaned, firing pins rerounded, sears / triggers adjusted
(to my preferred pull weight) and NOT once have I had to replace a part.

And if I did need to replace a part, I just order them as blanks (if I don't have them in my
stock of bits and pieces) - English foresights, main spings, fore end irons etc etc
- they are all available as blanks - the only problem is sometimes trying to match up the correct
one (Blank foreend irons being a good example).

IMHO

500 Nitro



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nitro476
.300 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 120
Re: Opinions needed on a new double [Re: 500Nitro]
      #20733 - 10/11/04 05:53 AM

Did you get the buffalo? I had to have a mainspring made for a Lancaster dielock shotgun and the spring was 275.00. Keep in mind this thing was about 2.5 inches long and I thought the price was outrageous.

You can always, and I repeat always get the hinge pin out if you really need to. Some are cast into the action but they also can be removed and replaced with a removable type if necesary. You must have access to an edm machine but it can be done.

Having the correct spring for each gun/rifle that I own would be very difficult to say the least. Finding them here is one problem that always is a pain in the ass. There are also certain little tools that are very important as well. I am talking about very small spring compressors that will keep the spring under tension while it is slipped into place. These have to be made and there are several variations.



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