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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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TomN
.300 member


Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington
3006 or 45/70
      #206487 - 04/04/12 11:32 AM

I am going to the gun shop tommrow to see about trading for a Baikal double rifle and was woundering which cal. to get. One can do a lot with the 45/70 but the 3006 is sold in just about any store that sales ammo and is kind of the standard test for a deer rifle here so what are your thoughts 3006 or 45/70?

TomN

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FATBOY404
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Reged: 14/11/09
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Loc: QLD
Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: TomN]
      #206492 - 04/04/12 01:12 PM

For one rifle I would go with the 3006.
110 - 250 grain projectiles so varmints to plains game.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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guns68
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Reged: 03/11/05
Posts: 7
Loc: Kodiak, AK
Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: FATBOY404]
      #206493 - 04/04/12 01:46 PM

I bought one in 30-06, just seemed more versital for what I want from it, deer, black bear, hogs etc.

--------------------
Leroy

Above all else, be well armed. Machiavelli

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: guns68]
      #206495 - 04/04/12 02:29 PM

Black powder in the 45-70 would be so much fun!




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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mauserand9mm
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Reged: 03/09/09
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: tinker]
      #206498 - 04/04/12 05:11 PM

Rimless cases can give extraction issues in the Baikals - sometimes the extractor slips back over the rim.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #206527 - 05/04/12 01:38 AM

I belive that rimless and/or belted cases belong in bolt actioned rifles - or perhaps actions specifically designed for and function perfectly with both, like a Ruger #1.

Poky-innie recessing tiny extractors on a solid extractor plate (the only kind I know of in singles and doubles) can cause trouble when a bit of dirt or fouling gets into the crack/slot or, heaven forbid, a bit of rust binds the extractor in the recessed postion.

I'd most certainly get the .45/70. Small game and hogs - 300gr. FN's or HP's at up to 2,200fps at less than 28,000psi.

Large game with 405 RP's or Barnes Spitzer Old Styles at 1,850fps at under 28,000psi.

As Frank C. Barnes put it best, "the .45/70 can be loaded to deliver very impressive knockdown on our heaviest species of big game" quote from COTW, page 92, 6th Edition.

His top loads delivered the ballistics I noted above with the 405gr. bullet. His listed load used IMR3031 and may not be suitable for the Baikal, but H4895 will produce that speed at under the rifle's listed max. of 28,000cup/psi.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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guns68
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Reged: 03/11/05
Posts: 7
Loc: Kodiak, AK
Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #206540 - 05/04/12 07:03 AM

Quote:

Rimless cases can give extraction issues in the Baikals - sometimes the extractor slips back over the rim.



so far I have not experienced that. Good to know though.

--------------------
Leroy

Above all else, be well armed. Machiavelli

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: guns68]
      #206543 - 05/04/12 08:32 AM

Welcome to the forum guns68!

The small pawl extractor is a real problem for rimless cartridges. Been there done that! For use around your area IMO the 45-70 would be better unless you hunt the open grasslands of the south-western end of the island. The 30-06 would be flatter shooting for the longer distances needed.

The Biakals have too much comb for shooting iron sights and the triggers need stoning to smooth them out and lessen trigger pull.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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TomN
.300 member


Reged: 07/03/10
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: AkMike]
      #206560 - 05/04/12 01:50 PM

I guess I will have to sale my .72 cal double as I can,t seam to get any interss it trading I went to two places and no takers. Guess I will hvave to sale two or three other guns to get what I want I think I would have ordered the 45/70 also just because of the rims works so much better. thanks will keep ya posted on how things go thanks.

TomN

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mauserand9mm
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: TomN]
      #206561 - 05/04/12 02:41 PM

What is that 72 cal that you are trying to get rid of?

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TomN
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #206598 - 06/04/12 11:50 AM

Pedersoli .72cal Kodiak muzzle loader I think that I would reather have one that you just drop the round in and be done with it.
Tom N

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guns68
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Reged: 03/11/05
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Loc: Kodiak, AK
Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: AkMike]
      #206600 - 06/04/12 12:07 PM

Quote:

Welcome to the forum guns68!

The small pawl extractor is a real problem for rimless cartridges. Been there done that! For use around your area IMO the 45-70 would be better unless you hunt the open grasslands of the south-western end of the island. The 30-06 would be flatter shooting for the longer distances needed.

The Biakals have too much comb for shooting iron sights and the triggers need stoning to smooth them out and lessen trigger pull.



Thanks Mike, I tend to agree with you, but I will be moving this summer to the wilds of Mobile Alabama. I figured the 06 would be a better fit for the whitetails and hogs down there. If I'm wrong, I'll be in the market for one in 45/70.

--------------------
Leroy

Above all else, be well armed. Machiavelli

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AkMike
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: guns68]
      #206603 - 06/04/12 12:59 PM

Personally I like bigger holes in the critters. I suspect that it'll be shorter shots. But what do I know about `Bama?
I'd opt for the 45-70.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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ruffcountry
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: AkMike]
      #206608 - 06/04/12 02:56 PM

For a non DG rifle I wouldnt be as concerned about the extractors although I do agree the rimless case is more likely to cause malfunction , on non DG the consequences of a failed extraction probaly wouldnt be as dire . Since I wouldnt be expecting to use it on DG I would not be against having double 30-06 at all . Both calibers (30-06 & 45-70 ) have their advantages , only solution is to get one of each .

--------------------
Double Rifle Shooters Society

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mauserand9mm
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: TomN]
      #206625 - 06/04/12 07:19 PM

Quote:

Pedersoli .72cal Kodiak muzzle loader I think that I would reather have one that you just drop the round in and be done with it.
Tom N



Blackpowder is where the double rifle originated. Certainly modern metallic cartridges in a double offer significant security for DG hunting, but the 72 BP is still an interesting piece. What were you asking for it?

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TomN
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Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington
Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: mauserand9mm]
      #206689 - 07/04/12 11:24 AM

Well I will be going into town tomrrow and order the Baikal and I think that I will get it 45/70 should be just fine for here in southwest washington. I mignt just as well get the dies also as I will be wanting load my own ammo. I kind of like heavy for cal. so do you think that 500 grains would be to heavy? would like to get to 1500 fps but doin't know if that is to much for the rifle. I would think that they should stand what a marlin in 45/70 would. Well just have to see. Mauserand9mm I was trying to do a trade but sence I will just be buying it I think I will hang on to it for now.
TomN

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TomN
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Reged: 07/03/10
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: TomN]
      #206741 - 08/04/12 05:50 AM

well just got back from ordering the 45/70 hope I doin't regreat not getting the 3006 as you can hunt just about anything that you can kill with a 30 cal. Well just have to see what I can do with the 45/70 via hand loads will keep ya all postes on how things go.
Tom N

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AkMike
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: TomN]
      #206745 - 08/04/12 06:25 AM

The current crop of Marlins can take some pretty stout loads from what I have read. Work up cautiously then adjust to the load is what I'd do.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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TomN
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Reged: 07/03/10
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Loc: washington
Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: AkMike]
      #206753 - 08/04/12 09:42 AM

I doin't know if they will stand that presser but I hope to get better then 1200 or 1300 hundred feet per. so if any of you out their have one and load for it let us know what is working for you thinks.
TomN

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kamilaroi
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: TomN]
      #206775 - 08/04/12 03:52 PM

Quote:

Well I will be going into town tomrrow and order the Baikal and I think that I will get it 45/70 should be just fine for here in southwest washington. I mignt just as well get the dies also as I will be wanting load my own ammo. I kind of like heavy for cal. so do you think that 500 grains would be to heavy? would like to get to 1500 fps but doin't know if that is to much for the rifle. I would think that they should stand what a marlin in 45/70 would. Well just have to see. Mauserand9mm I was trying to do a trade but sence I will just be buying it I think I will hang on to it for now.
TomN



350 grainers would emulate the old BP 500/450 3-1/4 inch at abt 1900 fps at abt 10&1/4 long tons. 150 yds range and a fairly flat trajectory.

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gallatin
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: kamilaroi]
      #206848 - 10/04/12 03:37 PM

TomN, have shot a ton of 405 gr. LBT WFN style cast loads out of my 45-70 (marlin 1895CB). some loads at or near 2040 fps. Of late working on 325gr leverlution from Hornady. The Annual Manual from Hogdon is a good place to start.
John

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DarylS
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: gallatin]
      #206862 - 11/04/12 12:35 AM

Tom - obtain the Hodgdon's Annual Mannual - loads to 28,000psi will keep you inside the Baikal's suggested pressure limits, even though the rifle is chambered for the .30/06, which runs 60,000psi on a smaller rim.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TomN
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Reged: 07/03/10
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Loc: washington
Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: DarylS]
      #206892 - 11/04/12 10:44 AM

I will get the Hodgdon's Mannual you can'g have to meny mannuals I have two from hornday but one is old and only has loading data for the 1886 and ruger single shot. wish it would get here though waiting is the hard part.
Tom N

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AkMike
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Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: TomN]
      #206893 - 11/04/12 11:11 AM

A very good one to look for IMO is Ken Waters,"Pet Loads"

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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TomN
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Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington
Re: 3006 or 45/70 [Re: AkMike]
      #207408 - 20/04/12 10:45 AM

Still waiting for the 45/70 to get in I was looking at Garrett's loads for the 45/70 do you think that the Baikal could take those loads I was reading and I think that he said 33,ooopsi or a little more but they sure sounded like they would do for what I would want it for.
Tom N

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