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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns

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TomN
.300 member

Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington

screw in rifled choke tubes
#206326 - 02/04/12 03:34 AM

This is just a question for those that know why doin't screw in rifled choked tubes work in double 12 or 20 bore side by side is it just that the barrels are not regulated or they just doin't work? seams that it should be as good as the paradox guns of the past and you woud be able to take the rifled choke tube out and replace it with one for shot and have the best of both worlds.
TomN

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: screw in rifled choke tubes [Re: TomN]
#206329 - 02/04/12 04:12 AM

You could take a SxS with screw chokes, choose a rifled choke tube (pair), install them, then re-regulate the gun to hit point of aim with the screw chokes.
I doubt it would pattern with smooth chokes and shot exactly as it had beforehand, but you can give it a try.

A great deal of the challenge is to get properly regulated rifle and shotgun performance out of the same gun.
My gut says it isn't easy.
The 'few and far between' nature of properly running 'paradox'-style guns in existence tends to support the gut feeling.

If you go ahead with the project, let us know how it goes!

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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gatsby
.375 member

Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA

Re: screw in rifled choke tubes [Re: TomN]
#206332 - 02/04/12 04:29 AM

There is more going on with paradox barrels than just a few inches of rifling. There is a short choked section just in front of the rifling and built in convergence in the assemblage and construction of the barrels. Paradoxes did shoot well with both shot and conical ball. During the time Holland and Holland's patent was in effect many other makers introduced different methods of rifling or barrel construction to produce the same results as the "Paradox". None were as effective as the original paradox guns.
If you don't already have it you need to get Roger Lake's book "Paradox".

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar

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nitro450exp
.333 member

Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA

Re: screw in rifled choke tubes [Re: gatsby]
#206336 - 02/04/12 06:14 AM

Tom

Been there done that.
I had decent results even though I was using a gun with 20" tubes.
Getting ammo to work with the modern tubes has been interesting.
However as stated above, unless re regulating your results will only be as good as the gun was originally built, and most were built for shot.

I will try find my original thread.

Nitro

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/971103014/m/5651045551

Thread found.

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by nitro450exp (02/04/12 06:24 AM)

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Con
.333 member

Reged: 24/05/04
Posts: 261
Loc: Victoria

Re: screw in rifled choke tubes [Re: nitro450exp]
#206353 - 02/04/12 11:30 AM

nitro450exp,
Any pictures of the firearm itself? I've considered making my Baikal SxS a 'test-mule' for roundball loads. The fixed Full x Mod choking worries me though, but for a nominal fee can be opened up.
Cheers...
Con

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nitro450exp
.333 member

Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA

Re: screw in rifled choke tubes [Re: Con]
#206355 - 02/04/12 12:21 PM

Con
Mine has the screw in choked.
I have some pics will post link later.
Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by CptCurl (04/04/12 09:09 PM)

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TomN
.300 member

Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington

Re: screw in rifled choke tubes [Re: nitro450exp]
#206358 - 02/04/12 12:50 PM

Thanks all just though I would ask seams their is a lot gong on then just spenning the ball.
TomN

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nitro450exp
.333 member

Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA

Re: screw in rifled choke tubes [Re: TomN]
#206482 - 04/04/12 09:38 AM

TomN

If you look in the other thread you will see that accuracy is pretty good.
I have hunted the deer woods with this combo.
And it is deadly at 20 ~ 55 yds.

Nitro

Pics from other thread:

The best results were the DGS Thunderbolts and the shuttlecocks.

Second best were the LBC's and DGS.

Edited by CptCurl (04/04/12 09:12 PM)

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Con
.333 member

Reged: 24/05/04
Posts: 261
Loc: Victoria

Re: screw in rifled choke tubes [Re: nitro450exp]
#206504 - 04/04/12 08:00 PM

nitro450exp,
Very, very nicely done.
Cheers...
Con

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26513
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: screw in rifled choke tubes [Re: Con]
#206523 - 05/04/12 01:02 AM

Well, amazing, almost perfect horizontal regulation with a variety of different slugs, without crossing.

nitro - how deep is the rifling in the screw-in?

The reason I ask, is that the paradox rifling I've seen here on the forum is quite deep - like a true rifled choke .020" deep, maybe .025" deep or more. The pictures also showed ratchet rifling, slanted with the high side to engrave and spin the bullet or ball and having a rapid twist.

The depth and the shape is the big difference between rifled choked sections and the screw-ins. If a screw-in rifled choke works - then GREAT!

I-too thought a hard bullet or ball might overtighten the screw-in choke, but you've tested that- thanks.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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nitro450exp
.333 member

Reged: 06/09/07
Posts: 254
Loc: Michigan, USA

Re: screw in rifled choke tubes [Re: DarylS]
#206529 - 05/04/12 02:00 AM

Daryl
Not very deep 0.010 " max.
The hard lead 0.735" balls did not over tighten the tubes.
Even the full bore hard lead slugs 0.750" long with 3 x 0.110" bands (0.330") bearing surface did not cause choke removal issues.
Nitro.

Edit: I quoted 20 ga ball size not 12 ga, corrected.

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

Edited by nitro450exp (05/04/12 05:11 AM)

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26513
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: screw in rifled choke tubes [Re: nitro450exp]
#206530 - 05/04/12 02:21 AM

tks Nitro

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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