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Fjold
.275 member


Reged: 28/06/11
Posts: 60
Loc: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Bought a Baikal (Remington)
      #206299 - 01/04/12 09:15 AM

I just found this Remington (Baikal) in 45.70 on Calguns and snapped it up. Now I'm ready to go buffalo hunting! :rotflmo:




--------------------
Frank

Edited by CptCurl (04/04/12 08:24 PM)


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DarylS
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Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: Fjold]
      #206302 - 01/04/12 09:58 AM

I find your mirth misplaced, Frank, - the .50/70 and .45/70 killed more buffalo when used with 70gr. black powder and loaded with 405gr., 450gr. and 500gr. lead bullets, than all the more powerful 'buffalo' rounds put together. I doubt the 45gr./405gr. "Carbine Load" was used much for buffalo, but probably when no other ammo was available.

Those who might think the round is too underpowered for buffalo, merely need to try it.

As to Cape Buffalo - perhaps one needs to try one of the 400gr. 'solid' bullets available and at this rifles maximum pressure load, achieve around 1,950fps, a full 200fps higher velocity than the load Brian Pierce used on two Cape bufflao - both killed with the same bullet from one shot - that just happened to be 4 shoulders - first the bull's then the cow's.

Now, getting the rifle to regulate with that load, is up to you.

I'd love to have one of those rifles in .45/70 - but it is in need of considerable stock work, or perhaps re-stocking completely if desired - but remodeling would be necessary for me.

In the barreled action, you have the basis for a great hunting rifle for North America - maybe even Africa, as Brian's experience shows.

My opinion is simply that the factory stock sucks big time- the concept and basic gun (barreled action) is just fine.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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hoosier
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Reged: 11/07/11
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Loc: Indiana,USA
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: DarylS]
      #206321 - 02/04/12 12:55 AM

"Those who might think the round is too underpowered for buffalo, merely need to try it."from posting above.

Roger that, I took a buffalo with a 420 grain cast of my design and can assure you that it is more than enough, the penetration was complete through both shoulders. I would like to have recovered the bullet to see how it held up but it must have been plenty good enough, hard to argue with the results.

Hoosiermike

--------------------
BigMike


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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
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Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: hoosier]
      #206323 - 02/04/12 01:11 AM

Fjold once you get it running you can test-drive it on coastal pig.
Let us know how it shoots!




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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Fjold
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Reged: 28/06/11
Posts: 60
Loc: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: tinker]
      #206324 - 02/04/12 01:43 AM

I find the controversy amusing. If it's legal for you to do so then I have no issue with anyone using what ever they want to hunt buffalo.

--------------------
Frank


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tinker
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Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: Fjold]
      #206327 - 02/04/12 03:48 AM

Forget about controversy.
The rifle won't know the difference.

Get it running and post your results!




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
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Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: DarylS]
      #206370 - 02/04/12 02:52 PM

Quote:

I find your mirth misplaced, Frank, - the .50/70 and .45/70 killed more buffalo when used with 70gr. black powder and loaded with 405gr., 450gr. and 500gr. lead bullets, than all the more powerful 'buffalo' rounds put together. I doubt the 45gr./405gr. "Carbine Load" was used much for buffalo, but probably when no other ammo was available.

Those who might think the round is too underpowered for buffalo, merely need to try it.

As to Cape Buffalo - perhaps one needs to try one of the 400gr. 'solid' bullets available and at this rifles maximum pressure load, achieve around 1,950fps, a full 200fps higher velocity than the load Brian Pierce used on two Cape bufflao - both killed with the same bullet from one shot - that just happened to be 4 shoulders - first the bull's then the cow's.





Is this the story that went out by a guy promoting hard cast lead bullets. That he is the maker of?

If not, ignore the following.

But if it is the same story of the bullet maker and/or his promoter that went to Africa and then proceeded to shoot through the shoulders of two beasts .... there was a lot of ridicule of the story and IMO and a lot of other people, whether it ever happened. Also the usual charging beasts in the various "stories" promoting the hard cast lead bullets out of a .45/70 that was more effective "the slower the bullets velocity was". yeah probably, as they probably break up if pushed too fast.

If not the same stories well then ignore that.

But how irresponsible to shoot a buffalo with another straight behind it. Really really bad form. And nothing for the shooter to be bragging about at all.


Fjold,

Hope your rifle shoots well. It should be a fun gun if it does.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
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Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: Fjold]
      #206397 - 02/04/12 09:49 PM

Frank,
I just hope they gave you a way to regulate it. On my 30-06 over and under, they just put in a round barrel spacer that is meant to be switched out for different diameter spacers to get the high and low adjustment correct. The only problem was that when I called the sales company about getting it adjusted, they refered me to the importer,(EAA). When I called them, the guy told me that they had the different size barrels but he wouldn't sell me one, even after I told him how far the were crossing at 25 yards. He told me that I needed to hire a gunsmith to measure it. I told him I was a gunsmith and he still refused to sell it to me. He was very rude about it! I finally took the spacer out and turned it down on my lathe, twice, till I got it regulated.
Another problem with them is the stocks on them are terrible for fit and finish, as mentioned earlier, but you can do something about that. Mine had wood that was way too high all the way around it, but the worst part was that they left the whole thing squared off in the grip area. I marked all the way around the butt stock next to the metal with a sharp pencil, then removed the stock, then took off the extra wood. While I was at it I rounded everything over better and blended in the curves, then I recheckered it. Sanded and stained, it looks much better.
The biggest problem was that mine came with trigger pulls that outweighed the gun. Seriously!
I had to take it apart,(not all that hard), and file off a bunch of burrs on the internals, then I stoned and polished them till I ended up with 3.5 and 4 pound trigger pulls, approximately.
After all that work I had a rifle that was regulated correctly, felt and handled much better, and I think looks better than what the factory put out. I don't know why the Russians can't do the same work on them before they assemble them, it would be much easier for them to do these little things and worth more money to them and the buyers if they would.
All that being said, I did find their tolerences were very tight and the metal machining was well done. The gun is very accurate after I cleaned it up a bit. I wish you well with your new gun,and I think you can do a few things to make it a better shooter. I hope, for your sake that it is regulated properly to start with, if not, get right after the company and tell them it is off. See what kind of solutions they offer. Good Luck with it. Bob


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Fjold
.275 member


Reged: 28/06/11
Posts: 60
Loc: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #206424 - 03/04/12 10:26 AM

Thanks Bob,

I know it's a project gun. I'm still waiting on it to ship but what I was told is that between the two barrels there is a jackscrew that adjusts the left barrel position. The manual says to sight in the right barrel and then adjust the jackscrew to move the left barrel. How, and how much they don't mention. The guy who's selling it says that he's done some regulating and will give me his load information with the gun. I'm just going to play with the loads to get the right barrel to shot with the sights and then play with the left barrel adjustment until it drives me crazy.

I've heard horror stories about the triggers on these guns so I will get them professionally re-worked, Are you interested in doing that kind of work? It can't be much worse than the Ruger Mk II that bottomed out my 12# trigger pull guage.

--------------------
Frank


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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: NitroX]
      #206467 - 04/04/12 02:02 AM

Quote:

NitroX
But how irresponsible to shoot a buffalo with another straight behind it. Really really bad form. And nothing for the shooter to be bragging about at all.

Fjold,

Hope your rifle shoots well. It should be a fun gun if it does.




I agree totally - but if the PH says shoot because he thinks the bull is in the clear, well, what do you do?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: DarylS]
      #206469 - 04/04/12 03:21 AM

I'm tired of 45-70 controversy AND I'm excited for Fjold on his new rifle.




Hopefully it runs properly and he gets a big grin per dollar value out of the purchase!





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: tinker]
      #206480 - 04/04/12 07:30 AM

Yeah - me too. I'd really like to have one myself, for the reasons given. Dandy hunting rifle for any game here. I'd merely change some of the woodwork right away.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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MagnumHunter
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Reged: 06/07/04
Posts: 63
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: DarylS]
      #206549 - 05/04/12 09:43 AM

Bob,
Is there any way we could see photos of your rifle after the overhaul??


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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: MagnumHunter]
      #206719 - 07/04/12 09:42 PM

MagnumHunter,
I have added a few pictures below of how my gun looks now. I had to add the higher cheek rest so I could use the scope on it. After adjusting the triggers and smoothing up a bunch of internal burrs, this gun has decent trigger pulls now and is pretty accurate. I guess that's why I wanted to be able to use a scope on it. The cheek piece is removeable if I ever have to use it with irons, The brass screws screw in flush with the piece off the gun so that the comb is still smooth and nothing can get down into the holes to mess things up. Bob













Edited by CptCurl (23/04/12 09:10 PM)


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Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
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Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: Fjold]
      #206720 - 07/04/12 10:10 PM

Fjold,
It sounds to me like they have changed their evil ways, at least to some extent in that they have at least given you a way to regulate it. Do nothing in the way of regulation till you get the triggers and action smoothed up, otherwise you are just wasting your time and ammunition. The one thing that I could not fix on mine, and yours may be the same way, is that they make the pistol grip so long that it is really hard to reach the front trigger. I somewhat overcame that by making sure that I always fired the back trigger first and saved the other one in case a backup shot was needed. So far, I have not needed to use the second trigger.

There was a discussion on here awhile ago about which trigger to use first, on all my other doubles I always use the front trigger first. This is the only gun I own where I use the back trigger first and I have to make myself remember to do that. Even though I was born lefthanded I understand that most folks are righthanded and the doubles have always been set up to fire the front trigger first then slide back to the back trigger. The trigger pulls are set so that the front one pulls just a little lighter than the back one, that is done to prevent a double firing of both barrels at once. You may not like it but that is the way most older doubles were set up.

I set this one up so that the rear trigger is just a little lighter than the front for the same reason. I won't work on your triggers, sorry to have to tell you that, but for one thing I don't want to have to ship the darned thing back and forth and second, you living in California makes it more complicated. The real main reason though, is that I simply don't have the time right now. You should not have any trouble finding a good gunsmith to do this job for you out there. It will save you money and headachs if you have it done locally, anyway. It's not all that hard to do but to get the triggers pulling correctly takes up some time. Be prepared to pay the man for his time. You bought a bargain gun at a great price, now you need to pay the rest of the bill to get it corrected to suit you. The woodwork is fairly simple and straight forward, you can do it yourself if you want to badly enough. You will want to go over it with a light coat of stain when you are done with it, though.

If you are capable of doing it, I would highly suggest that you rechecker it while you are doing the rest of the woodwork. It will help clean up the lines of the gun and make it feel and handle better. It kind of pulls the whole thing together and makes it look more like a factory job.
Good Luck with your new gun. Bob


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Fjold
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Reged: 28/06/11
Posts: 60
Loc: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #206732 - 08/04/12 02:22 AM

Thanks Bob,

I don't mind paying for quality work. I know that this is a project gun and I'm prepared for it. I realize that people get busy and don't have time for all the jobs that come up, no problem there.

I'm sorry that you think that it's to much trouble to work on guns from California as doing gunsmithing for someone in California is no different than doing it for people in any other state. There are no restrictions or differences for a gunsmith to ship arms back and forth directly to a customer in California, the only restrictions for FFL's on shipping to California are for FFL's who sell guns through another FFL located in California. Then they have to verify that the receiving FFL's license is current. People here can still ship directly to gunsmiths in any other state and the gunsmith can ship it directly back to the customer with no other requirement that don't apply to any other state.

--------------------
Frank


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ruffcountry
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Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 210
Loc: usa
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #206733 - 08/04/12 02:23 AM

you might want to check this thread about problems and fix for firing pins on some of those rifles ,http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=201640&an=0&page=1#Post201640

--------------------
Double Rifle Shooters Society

Edited by ruffcountry (08/04/12 02:28 AM)


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Fjold
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Reged: 28/06/11
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Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: ruffcountry]
      #206755 - 08/04/12 09:53 AM

Thanks ruffcountry, I'll get that looked at.

--------------------
Frank


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prof242
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Reged: 10/02/04
Posts: 54
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: Fjold]
      #206813 - 09/04/12 01:28 PM

Fjold,
As one left-hander to another, congratulations. I have a Baikal SxS in .45-70 and have had a ball with it. I did a lot of the work myself, but did have the triggers tuned by a professional. You have received a lot of good advice above, but I'd like to add a few things. When adjusting the barrels, move no more than a quarter turn. This sometimes made major changes for me. As a factory load, use the Hornady 325gr LeverRevolution ammo. It shot great for me.
Max

--------------------
Politically correct = morally wrong


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hoosier
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Reged: 11/07/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Indiana,USA
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: prof242]
      #206828 - 10/04/12 12:23 AM

NitroX:
Appears that I need to clarify a bit about the cast bullet that I designed.I am the sole user of this design and am not trying to sell them, Since the original poster is from the U.S. I guessed that he is referring to American Bison which is what I took with my rifle.For Cape Buffalo or Scrub Bulls a 45-70
would be a little too much adventure for me unless there were no other option. It might do the job but I would rather have more get-up-and-go in case things got dicey.

Hoosier

--------------------
BigMike


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Fjold
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Reged: 28/06/11
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Loc: Bakersfield, CA, USA
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: hoosier]
      #206843 - 10/04/12 10:46 AM

Hoosier, it was just a poor joke of mine about the controversy surrounding hunting cape buffalo with the 45.70. I took my bull with a 375 H&H and have a 458 Win Mag on order also.

--------------------
Frank


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hoosier
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Reged: 11/07/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Indiana,USA
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: Fjold]
      #206921 - 12/04/12 02:44 AM

Fjold:
I guess it shot right over my head with your little joke.Yup, that is a hottly debated topic alright enough.Hope you can get your rig up and running well-with any luck it will regulate easy.They can be frustrating.Update us with your success when you can.
Hoosier

--------------------
BigMike


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
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Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: hoosier]
      #207052 - 14/04/12 05:13 PM

Quote:

NitroX:
Appears that I need to clarify a bit about the cast bullet that I designed.I am the sole user of this design and am not trying to sell them, Since the original poster is from the U.S. I guessed that he is referring to American Bison which is what I took with my rifle.For Cape Buffalo or Scrub Bulls a 45-70
would be a little too much adventure for me unless there were no other option. It might do the job but I would rather have more get-up-and-go in case things got dicey.

Hoosier




I was wondering if the story was an old story from a cast bullet maker who made hard cast bullets which "performed better the slower they were pushed". This maker then went to Africa and told lots of AMAZING stories about his bullet performace (read bullshit stories).

Obviously not the same stories!

.45/70 on elephant and buffalo.

When I was hunting in Matetsi an American client was hunting buffalo with his .45/70 guide gun and did fine. Also tested it out on an elephant which was dead for skull penetration. Worked OK on the tests. I think they were 570 gr Hard cast flat nosed bullets. So he was coming back the next year to try it out elephant. His usual firearms were a .460 or .500 A-Square, so I guess he also knew real big bore power. This was back in 2002.

So I have never argued a .45/70 can't do it because it obviously can. Just that some stories sometimes are more story than fact.

Best NitroX

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: NitroX]
      #207064 - 15/04/12 01:30 AM

Max - I have no personal experience with the 325gr. rubber tipped Hornady bullet, but have been told it is too soft for heavy game like Elk or Moose in factory lever gun ammo. I think perhaps much depends on impact velocity.

My bro shot a bull moose with his .45 3 1/2" Sharps using a 300gr. Sierra or perhaps Hornady FN - not a hollow point. I'm sure it was a Sierra bullet - but in any event,it was not a hollow point as many of these 300gr. in .458's are. So the one he had was flat nosed. They shot into 3/8"/cloverleafs every time with him shooting at 100 meters off the bags & a 2 1/2X scope I mounted. Yeah - that was a big scabby - that little scope on a Sharps.

The moose was about 60 yards away and the muzzle velocity form the 30" bl. was a chronographed & easy going 2,260fps. The shot was made broadsize, hitting a rib on the way in passing between the ribs on the way out - yes - exit, with a 1" hole. That bullet displayed 'hard' charateristics, not normal for a 300gr. .458 and certainly not normal for a Sierra bullet. It would be a good bullet for a Baikal, at max. Trapdoor speeds of 2,221fps as shown by Hodgdon.

I would not try to drive one in from the rear end, though. Too light and too low a SD. I firmly suspect that bullet would easily go lengthwise on a big muley or whitetail, though.

I'll have to check to see if he's still got some of those bullets or ammo to check on the proper brand. He re-barreled to a .50 many years ago, but still has all his brass, I'm sure.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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gallatin
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Reged: 30/05/07
Posts: 44
Loc: Olympia,Wa. USA
Re: Bought a Baikal (Remington) [Re: DarylS]
      #207099 - 15/04/12 01:45 PM

Randy Garrett a few miles south of me builds 45-70 ammo for NOAA , US marine fisheries as well as hunters around the world. His stuff has been used in Africa quite a bit. I enjoyed his dissertation on penetration vs. speed, good reading.
John


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