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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

.700 Cal/16Bore Double on EGun ?
#201108 - 30/01/12 01:30 PM

Looks interesting , maybe one of our European members can tell us about it ?
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3682037

A short 16Bore or some thing ?

Edited by CptCurl (30/01/12 11:40 PM)

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: .700 Cal/16Bore Double on EGun ? [Re: Sarg]
#201115 - 30/01/12 01:55 PM

Pricy!

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: .700 Cal/16Bore Double on EGun ? [Re: DarylS]
#201116 - 30/01/12 01:59 PM

Got my attention!

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: .700 Cal/16Bore Double on EGun ? [Re: tinker]
#201118 - 30/01/12 02:03 PM

Those cases are similar size to the ones I've made for my Mahillon, which hold somewhere over 3drams of powder and the roundball that I use.

Looks like a ripping rifle for hooved game!

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: .700 Cal/16Bore Double on EGun ? [Re: tinker]
#201123 - 30/01/12 03:03 PM

Certainly looks like a lot of fun, but that bullet looks too heavy to me.

Appears the mould is casting considerably oversize as well, as the bullets are greatly sized down before being loaded into the cases. Check out the length of the top band on the loaded rounds, and that the raised band as-cast, is gone completely, which lengthens the amount of sized lead bullet above the case mouth. You can see a tiny line, where the top band's edge 'was' before sizing.

Fun gun,though. I've just got a feeling that mould nor the dies, of course, are not original to the rifle, but were assembled together just as we might, in order to shoot the rifle. Interesting old mould, too, must be a base pour.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: .700 Cal/16Bore Double on EGun ? [Re: DarylS]
#201124 - 30/01/12 03:38 PM

Definitely composed, looks worth the ask price, and definitely another "geek like us" out there somewhere.

If he ends up seeing this here, I hope he joins our site!

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9038
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: .700 Cal/16Bore Double on EGun ? [Re: tinker]
#201130 - 30/01/12 05:52 PM

I have seen this double 3 years ago in Wagner's workshop. it was pretty rusty standing before in a cellar that was flood once. dont had so much time but we talk a little bit about it and Wagner had the opinion that this was a unique british cartridge and had nothing to do with the german bore cartridges. definitely a cartridge thats absent in Hoyem British Sporting Rifle cartridges.
Wagner is a very knowledgeable dealer I have buy 8 guns, rifles and pistols over the years.
seems to be he have found the time to restore it now to his former glory.

rest of the pics before they gone

Edited by CptCurl (30/01/12 11:41 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: .700 Cal/16Bore Double on EGun ? [Re: lancaster]
#201196 - 31/01/12 05:23 AM

Did a nice job cleaning it up and refinishing as necessary.

I wonder what the bores look like?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: .700 Cal/16Bore Double on EGun ? [Re: lancaster]
#201229 - 31/01/12 10:30 AM

Thanks lancaster I was hoping you would post on this , is it a 16 bore of some type ?

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: .700 Cal/16Bore Double on EGun ? [Re: Sarg]
#201230 - 31/01/12 10:41 AM

.70 cal is only .010" off being a 13 bore, while being .07" larger than a 14 bore. Of course, a brass case in a 'tight' 13 (.710") bore rifle, that is chambered for the 16 bore paper, fits a 16 bore brass case perfectly. 16 bore brass will hold a .700" ball or bullet quite handily.

My husky side by side with the straight rifled right hand barrel, has both chambers factory reamed for the 16 bore thick paper case as they are identical however the left smooth and choked barrel is meant for a shot load in a paper hull and the right barrel is meant for a black powder load with ball in a 16 bore, brass case. Perhaps similar circumstances is the reason why the .700"/16bore designation on this thread - ay, Lancaster?

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TH44
.375 member

Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 734
Loc: West UK

Re: .700 Cal/16Bore Double on EGun ? [Re: DarylS]
#201232 - 31/01/12 10:55 AM

This rifle is very similar to my Williams and Powell double in .577 Snider (posted somewhere on this forum, as was a 12 bore) except for the cheekpiece
Non rebounding locks, fences, engraving, finger rest all virtually identical

I could not see the maker's name (Hugh Snow, he is not in Brown's British Gunmakers)
Probably by the same Birmingham contract manufacturer with the seller's name put on

As Daryl writes it could have been based on a 12/13/14/16 bore barrel, to compete with bore rifles and the "express" rifles becoming popular
It would be interesting to know the bore & groove diameters

Quite early, mid 1870's I would imagine

Still, a very interesting addition to any collection

TH44

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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: .700 Cal/16Bore Double on EGun ? [Re: DarylS]
#201237 - 31/01/12 12:11 PM

Sorry Daryl I added the 16bore part , I was guessing on .69 -.70 as around 16bore ?

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9038
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Re: .700 Cal/16Bore Double on EGun ? [Re: Sarg]
#201264 - 31/01/12 06:36 PM

I was in contact with mister Wagner just two weeks ago. will send him a mail asking for the cartridge dimensions.

if he had the the time

--------------------
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