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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Fallow Shot Placement
      #200003 - 19/01/12 08:19 PM

I have the chance to cull an excess stag from a private herd of Fallow. Three Stags are in attendance, one too many. Not knowing much about Fallow where is the optimum shot placement to reduce the loss of venison ? Behind the front leg for a double lung shot ?
I believe it has a nice head so head shots are out.

I found a shot placement photo that is free to use.



Rifle is my 7x57 with the Zeiss Victory 2.5-10x42T and RWS 173 grn H-Mantles. I've just found this is the most accurate projectile in this rifle over 44 grains of AR2209. Velocity unknown.

Cheers,

John

Edited by tophet1 (19/01/12 08:42 PM)

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FATBOY404
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: tophet1]
      #200006 - 19/01/12 08:50 PM

About right or if mainly for meat,waste a few "neck chops".

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia
Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: tophet1]
      #200008 - 19/01/12 09:00 PM

These were just taken from the internet. No copyright infringment intended. The 2nd link is listed as bow hunting, but pretty sure it'd still be the same?



And this Afircahunting website seems to have a few pics like this of different species.
Hope this helps. Never shot a deer personally.





Photo sources + a bit of text:
http://www.bestpracticeguides.org.uk/culling_shotplace.aspx

http://www.africahunting.com/bowhunting-shot-placement/6487-fallow-deer-bowhunting-vitals.html


EDIT: Woops, got in too late. Deleted duplicate pic.

Edited by Ash (19/01/12 09:08 PM)

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CHAPUISARMES
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Reged: 16/01/08
Posts: 2908
Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: FATBOY404]
      #200009 - 19/01/12 09:01 PM

On all that I have shot, the old addage of following the front leg up at about the height of your 'Dot" and then should break both shoulders, not much difference to the photo but still slightly off IMO

Cheers Mate,

Jeff

.

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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: FATBOY404]
      #200010 - 19/01/12 09:08 PM

Two thirds down from the junction of the leading foreleg if on the run. FWIW most folk tend to shoot a bit higher and a bit toward the back by "stopping the shot" thus you get a clavicle or joint hit that shreds the lungs et al (and maybe the spine).

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: kamilaroi]
      #200014 - 19/01/12 10:07 PM

Looks alright to me, best meat I´ve found on a fallow are the back straps, I took both off the fellow below and a local restaurant did them for 8 of us, from memory, soak backstraps over night in milk, throw milk away, chop up staps into 1" cubes, chop two or three onions coursely and 3 or 4 cloves of garlic, fry these over a low heat till soft, bung in the meat and brown, bung in 1 bottle of dryish white wine and 2-3 pints stock and about 30 whole peppercorns (black). Put on the lid and simmer for 2 1/2, hours, lid off and bung in 8-10 potatoes, cut into 1" cubes and simmer for another 1/2 hour, off the planet



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FATBOY404
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #200017 - 19/01/12 10:25 PM

Quote:

On all that I have shot, the old addage of following the front leg up at about the height of your 'Dot" and then should break both shoulders, not much difference to the photo but still slightly off IMO

Cheers Mate,

Jeff

.



His quote was where to kill without wasting too much meat and breaking both shoulders will wreck a lot of meat.

If just to kill...........I like to break bone as well.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

Edited by FATBOY404 (20/01/12 07:03 AM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: Ash]
      #200019 - 19/01/12 10:56 PM

Quote:







Brain shot way too high with that green dot.

Just behind the eye if broadside, a light bit higher. In that photo I would put the bullet right in the eye. Or considering it appears to be slightly below the photographer, at the top of the eye lid, front half of the eye seeing the angle.

In this photo:



I would put the bullet slightly higher to destroy the arteries at the top of the heart, or the top of the heart itself. Those line of dots on the skin are very useful in determining the point of aim. Draw a line up from the back of the leg to the row of dots, and bang.

A 7mm round there of softer construction will do fine.

A hard bullet may zip straight through the lungs and not do enough damage.

An H-Mantle has a soft front half and a solid rear. I haven't used them.

If shooting a trophy where meat loss is not as needed, I might shoot a few inches forward to hit bone, especially on the opposite side.

The location of bone on the skeleton picture looks too far forward to me for the shoulder bones.


***

As for AfricaHunting.com, well they have lots of photos sourced from NE's with their brand logo plastered all over the photos. Wouldn't worry about infringing their copyright at all.


***

JM,

If you asked me three weeks ago I could have shown five decapitated fallow buck heads for bullet placement.


Good luck. Hope it works out. Should be in prime condition right now, but still growing in velvet. Still a two or three weeks till they rub, at least here. Maybe different in your area. One of mine may start sooner than that.

Had some 'fun' and practice chopping up my bucks after Christmas, two one day and three the next night. Got quite quick at it. Still need to improve the cuts though. I am going to look for a butchers diagram on where the best cuts should be made. If anyone has one or a link, please post. I just go by instinct and what looks and feels right. Looked at a video. Need more practice I think.





--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (19/01/12 11:31 PM)

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Hunter_338
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Reged: 16/09/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Mid North, South Australia
Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: NitroX]
      #200021 - 19/01/12 11:19 PM

When shooting fallow for meat its either head shots (which you don't want) or we aim just behind the shoulder for min meat damage and using a decent cal they won't go to far!

--------------------
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Sville
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Loc: Sweden
Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: Hunter_338]
      #200023 - 20/01/12 01:01 AM

I would also recommend just behind the shoulders. /S

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: Sville]
      #200031 - 20/01/12 04:09 AM

Geez whats all this stuff....my plan is to load the rifle and ammo into the car, go out and find the deer, take the shot as its presented and squeeze the bloody trigger!

Having shot a dozen fallow bucks,lets say with your 7mm mag a shoulder shot or in the close region will have the buck on the ground quick smart!

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Matt_Graham
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Reged: 26/02/04
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: gryphon]
      #200036 - 20/01/12 05:42 AM

Sounds like you are talking about a fenced herd. If thats the case and if it were me, I would be looking to maximise the opportunity and not waste any meat either. I would go the head or high neck shot with a very accurate rifle, even a 223 or similar. Spend a lot of time finding the best position to get a good shot and not stir the deer up too much.

A mate of mine has a small herd of 50 fallow just outside of town and we spend a lot of time finding the best place to ambush an animal we want to take out and then make a great head shot. A lot different to hunting a wild animal but the great venison from a managed herd (better than wild fallow) makes it worthwhile. We usually use my mates 223 and from now on I am going to be using shooting sticks instead of a 'ready rest' to get the best shot we can. Even on his 30acre block it can be a REAL challenge to get the job done right... plenty of times I have driven home without getting the shot I wanted.... come back the next day.

JH has the right idea on head shooting (above)!!

--------------------
www.huntaust.com.au

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DarylS
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: Matt_Graham]
      #200037 - 20/01/12 05:57 AM



For me, on this picture, with a 'close' offhand or a good rest shot, bottom of the green dot, just behind the eye on the crease. A bit high will still catch the top of the brain, bit left, brain, bit low, brain and spine, bit right brain and spine. Any accurate bullet will work - I'd probably use my CZ .22 Hornet with a 50gr. Spire Point Hornady at 3,140fps - or a 40gr. Sierra HP at 3,240fps. (14.0gr. Lil'Gun in RP brass)

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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gryphon
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: DarylS]
      #200053 - 20/01/12 07:28 AM

(better than wild fallow)

I doubt if they would be better than wild fallow bucks shot in season in Tassy that are coming off stubble after feeding all night on spilt grain.These sort of bucks have an inch and a half of fat on their rumps,note 'in season' meaning shot before the rut stink gets into them.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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Matt_Graham
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: gryphon]
      #200063 - 20/01/12 08:11 AM

Quote:

(better than wild fallow)

I doubt if they would be better than wild fallow bucks shot in season in Tassy that are coming off stubble after feeding all night on spilt grain.These sort of bucks have an inch and a half of fat on their rumps,note 'in season' meaning shot before the rut stink gets into them.

Yeah no doubt you are right and Im sure there are other places like that too. I just know (my opinion) that your average fenced area up here with good pastures (farm - yes) produces a nicer tasting animal than the NE bush stags. I struggle to get my family to eat any wild fallow deer from up here but the farmed venison is fine.

Not so with the wild sambar venison though - it gets a thumbs-up from everyone. Shit we must have eaten 12kgs of it over Christmas with my missus family - no complaints!! That is good stuff... sambar pies were the biggest hit!!

Personally - I love ALL venison, properly cooked.

--------------------
www.huntaust.com.au

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blacks
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Reged: 17/03/11
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Loc: South-East South Australia
Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: Matt_Graham]
      #200071 - 20/01/12 09:41 AM

Personally I shoot a bit higher up the shoulder these days as I find it gives more reliable 'DRT' performance. From the white spot on your OP John, I'd come about three inches up and three inches left, to smash the plumbing at the top of the heart. But realisitically, any 7mm through the boiler is going to do the job. The bulk of the meat on a fallow is rear legs and backstraps anyhow.

The most important thing though - I'd be shooting him SOON before he starts to get rutty....

blacks

--------------------
You won't shoot anything at home on the couch...

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: blacks]
      #200072 - 20/01/12 10:03 AM

It's good to see everyone contributing.

I must admit it is a bit of a surprise to me that most would shoot basically in the midline of the body. They must have a large or high positioned heart ?

Head shots are definantly out. The idea of my .223R or TYB's .243W and a neck shot hold merit, but I had my 7x57 built for deer and medium game, so I will use that.

I do know the owner has to glass the deer from on top of a hill so it isn't a small enclosure set up.

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blacks
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: tophet1]
      #200078 - 20/01/12 11:00 AM

To illustrate, here's where I like to hit them, give or take. This was .30/06 - 150gn.


And the carcass....


An esky full of meat, and the bits I threw away...


Cheers

blacks

Edited by blacks (20/01/12 11:02 AM)

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Matt_Graham
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: tophet1]
      #200081 - 20/01/12 11:31 AM

Quote:

It's good to see everyone contributing.

I must admit it is a bit of a surprise to me that most would shoot basically in the midline of the body. They must have a large or high positioned heart ?

Head shots are definantly out. The idea of my .223R or TYB's .243W and a neck shot hold merit, but I had my 7x57 built for deer and medium game, so I will use that.

I do know the owner has to glass the deer from on top of a hill so it isn't a small enclosure set up.

No - broadside midline is primarily for double-lung shot - most deer carry them quite a way back as well as high, as seen in the diagram above. This is the common, learned shot taken by North American hunters with the idea of reducing meat damage. Double-lung shot will kill most deer equally as fast as a heart shot, or close to it. They run out of puff very quickly.

Doesnt matter about the enclosure size - it is all fun!!

N.B. to out of state/country members. Game Ranch hunting, or any kind of paid, fenced hunting (or 'hunting' as some will say) is against the law in NSW. The infringement comes when money changes hands before or after the shot. Just to clarify.... 'free' animals are a different story!!

--------------------
www.huntaust.com.au

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DarylS
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: Matt_Graham]
      #200088 - 20/01/12 12:54 PM

Usually a mid to high double lung shot has anchored deer faster than a heart shot - for me.

Shocking the spine with a shoulder blade shot where the spine dips a bit is a good way of shortening the trail - DRT. It does ruin a few pounds of meat, but there is no trail, no adrenaline in the meat, either.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Matt_Graham
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: DarylS]
      #200090 - 20/01/12 01:09 PM

Interesting comment Daryl - I wonder if a cervical spine break actually stops the adrenal gland from being stimulated?? Makes sense to me - being they are located on the kidney eh?? As you know some of those shots still result in an animal that is struggling ineffectively on the ground - it doesnt typically mean lights-out. But maybe it does result in better meat than a chest shot?? I do not know...

That said - another question that begs to be answered is - if a chest-shot (but previously undisturbed) animal lives for say 1 minute after the shot - is that enough time for adrenaline to be distributed around the body?? I did a bit of animal physiology at Uni but I cant remember that lecture and in any case I failed that course.... perhaps a 'medical professional' member hereabouts will have a better idea of the answers??

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gryphon
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Reged: 01/01/03
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: Matt_Graham]
      #200093 - 20/01/12 01:28 PM

Geezuz Blacks did Molly Meldrum get to that deer haha?
Skinned pic hanging up!

Those throw away bits mate...cut the ribs into sections and grill over slow box coals!

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.

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kamilaroi
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: gryphon]
      #200094 - 20/01/12 02:16 PM

I believe Dr Deer should give a heads up on this one. All I know is that a heart shot leaves an animal with a supply of oxygenated blood and intact limbs whereas a good mid lung shot or via a shattered scapula or clavicle leaves little to no oxygenated blood supply and partial immobility.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: kamilaroi]
      #200095 - 20/01/12 02:21 PM


kamilaroi

How do you work that one out ?

Any oygenated blood in the body is still going to be there regardless of which of the two you hit.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Fallow Shot Placement [Re: 500Nitro]
      #200103 - 20/01/12 02:39 PM

In any case a 7mm with a decent bullet will kill a fallow very well with half decent shooting. A shot to the brain or the skull very near the brain will shatter the skull. I've had a deer's head explode in spectacular fashion, bits landing a good 20 metres in a bit circle with my .30-06 and 150 gr Nosler solid bases. Same any reasonably well placed shot into the lungs or heart region will drop a fallow well with similar rifles. A heart shot beast might run 50 metres or more but will still be dead.

IMO a brain shot - if not worried about antlers - or a good lung or double lung shot, are good shots for maximum meat recovery.

For wild fallow I usually use my .30-06 or .308. I have used a .22 Mag and .222 for wild fallow as well. For my farmed fallow I have always used a .22 Mag. Might start using the .222 as more margin for error. The simple fact is if using a .22 there is no real margin for error. I've probably shot a hundred deer (?) with the .22 Mag in the head. Maybe eight needed a second shot. A .22 in the top of the heart also will kill well I've been told, strictly broadside on the right dot on the chest. A mates advice once, I won't go into details of why and how he makes these shots. Not poaching, more about it being 'quite' an urban area. Ask me in person one day.

Kiwis have claimed the .22 Hornet/,222/.223 sized calibres are good wild deer shooters too. For does and yearlings, often quite adequate.

However I do recommend a decent centrefire starting with .243 myself for wild fallow.

Found some good butchering videos on youtube. I'll put them up on a new thread for anyone interested. I learned what I should be doing ....

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (20/01/12 02:42 PM)

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