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Bigfive
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When does a caliber become to small for specific species
      #199651 - 16/01/12 08:11 PM

HI Guys,

I recently got the thumbs down on an article I wrote to a local hunting magazine here in South Africa because the animal hunted and the caliber used was not correct according to them.
Want to know what is your take on this and where do you draw the line? Why must there be a line?
When does a caliber become to small to hunt a certain animal?

--------------------
"Hunting is a way of life"
Bigfive,South Africa


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Sville
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: Bigfive]
      #199652 - 16/01/12 08:22 PM

Interesting question! This thread will be interesting to follow. In Sweden where we don´t have dangerous game, except maybe bears, it´s regulated by laws from Goverment.

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FATBOY404
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: Sville]
      #199655 - 16/01/12 08:45 PM

It is a tough one.
What caliber and what game ?.

A lot of things to concider as in type of animal,type of country and if you have a PH or mate with you.

I am torn between "use a gun that will work when everything goes wrong" to being confident to use my 8x68 and 9.3x62 on anything bar Elephant on a paid hunt with modern bullets.

It is like a 9.3x62 is about the smallest caliber anyone would use on Cape Buff (I know 375 is min in some counties) but a 338 Win mag is a no no.
300 grain Woodleighs and 275 grain A-Frame 338's are every bit as good as a 9.3 imo.

Will be keen to see the replies as well.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

Edited by FATBOY404 (16/01/12 08:47 PM)


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93mouse
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: Bigfive]
      #199658 - 16/01/12 08:58 PM

Quote:

When does a caliber become to small to hunt a certain animal?




IMO

Hunting scenario (in order to hunt and get the animal not just to kill it)

If we assume that “appropriate” bullet is used - as soon as I can’t achieve a full chest cave penetration behind the shoulders on a perfect broadside standing animal every time (assuming there is a clear shot present without any obstacles).

Defending scenario (one must take a shot at all cost, right there right now)

If we assume that “appropriate” bullet is used - as soon as I can’t achieve a full brain cavity penetration at any angle on headshots and break a spine at any angle anywhere along its length on spine shots.

Of course this is theory and I might change my mind just now


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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: 93mouse]
      #199659 - 16/01/12 09:28 PM

We went hunting water buffalo with a mate carrying a 6.5x54 M-S.

People on here got upset, one even telephoned the outfitter and tried to stop the hunt .... btw NOT appreciated and none of their business! But all water under the bridge.

Anyway the 6.5x54 worked out with close in well aimed broadside shots.

My personal opinion is hunting buffalo with a 6.5 on foot probably wouldn't get you killed 19/20 times ...

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John aka NitroX

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: Bigfive]
      #199664 - 16/01/12 09:44 PM

Quote:

HI Guys,

I recently got the thumbs down on an article I wrote to a local hunting magazine here in South Africa because the animal hunted and the caliber used was not correct according to them.
Want to know what is your take on this and where do you draw the line? Why must there be a line?
When does a caliber become to small to hunt a certain animal?




BTW Mate,

Didn't notice the author of the post. Long time no see. Welcome back and hope hunting eland with your .243 is still going OK.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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500Nitro
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: NitroX]
      #199665 - 16/01/12 09:51 PM


Depends who the hunter is, what the game is, what the whole scenario is.

We culled something like 20 buffalo in 60 seconds, both using 375H&H's.

1 cow and 2 calves / younger one's at the front of the mob got away. Mate went over the flood plain, 10 minutes later, 3 quick shots and he came back.

Went over later to get the meat, 3 head shots with a 6mm or 6.5 at close range while they family group stood still in some brush.

Now I wouldn't have done it then (I might now with more experience) but he is more than capable of doing it.

So more info needed IMHO.


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tophet1
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: 93mouse]
      #199666 - 16/01/12 09:54 PM

This too is one of my favourite questions/quandries/situations. I may ramble on a bit here.

I don't think there is an answer. As you are from Gauteng, this will be heavily loaded towards Africa. Ultimately the choice of chambering (calibre) and shot placement must be capable of making a clean kill without the game suffering. As we know, this does not always happen and would probably include the .22lr for just about any animal.

I firmly believe a lot of people go to Africa overgunned.eg taking a .375H&H for PG
I think a lot of shooters don't know when NOT to take a shot.
I think a lot of trophy hunters rely on canons to get their 'prize'.

I select or purchase a rifle in a particular chambering more often than not to suit the terrain and hunting conditions rather than the animal hunted.

Example 1: I have a .218Bee for hunting in very steep and heavily timbered country. Why ? It is quiet and will not disturb game. I use W-W 46Hp's despite some feral game reaching 80kg liveweight.
I would use the same rifle with Norma 50 FMJ's to cull any PG with head shots under a spotlight. Unethical ? definantly in the US.

Example 2: I have purchased a .264WM for a future Springbok hunt loaded with 129 Accubonds. Adequate ? Yes. Why ? From experience it has the range on the Grassveldt (and in the Karoo) and shoots cloverleafs with that projectile.

Example 3: My custom 7x57 which shoots 175 grain projectiles the most accurately. Overgunned for local game ? Yes. Adequate for PG ? Yes. Capable of taking any soft skinned animal on the planet ? I would use it because it is my go-to-rifle and I know it perfectly. With the right 175 it will penetrate just about anything. Many would say there are better choices. For walk and stalk, it gives me the option of any shot angle I choose to take here in Oz.

Example 4: My 9.3x62. Built for Eland in the Limpopo. Capable of the largest non DG PG ? Yes. Overkill ? I think so. My old .308W with 165 Woodleighs would have done the same job. I had the 7x57 built to replace the 9.3 in Africa. Capable of culling introduced pests up to 600 kg + with less than optimum shot placement ? Devastating.

Would I use a .22 Hornet or my .218Bee on Deer or Impala sized game ? Yes if the bush was thick and I had a lot of time to take head shots.
Would I use a .243W for Kudu ? Yes, with a tough projectile like the 100 grain Premium Remington Core-Lokt.

Edit: I just read NitroX's last post. Would I use a .243W on Eland ? Probably not. It is an animal I have experience of only one, with. Would I use a 6.5mm or my 7mm with heavy for calibre projectiles ? Oh yeah.


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ozhunter
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: tophet1]
      #199667 - 16/01/12 10:03 PM

When it comes to African bush veldt were dangerous game can be involved. My "line in the sand" is the 9.3x62 or the rimmed version the 9.3x74R.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: tophet1]
      #199668 - 16/01/12 10:05 PM

Writing for magazines, calibres matched to game animals ...


Nothing can be hunted with a .22 centrefire, though some of the small antelope would be fun to hunt with them.

.300 Magnums are the standard for all thin skinned antelope. Can't be killed with a .243, .270, 7x57, .308 or .30-06.

Wildebeest is pound for pound as tough as buffalo, so a .375 is needed ...

Eland, obviously a .375 ... at least I was told this by a PH before hunting mine with a .30-06 ...

Buffalo, you'll be under gunned with black death if you carry a .400, .416, .404 so only experts should try it with these marginal calibres. Even a .458 Win Mag is taking your life in your hands ...

Elephant, the .500's for all serious stories ...



Ha ha, only joking.

I plan to use my 8x68S on most plains game in the future, or the .375 or the .404, but have used the .30-06 in the past. And a .375 when that was all I took.

For most smaller and medium antelope I reckon a 6.5 would be great, whether 54mm, 65mm or 68mm,.


Doesn't really answer the question, but the question is too broad.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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FATBOY404
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: NitroX]
      #199669 - 16/01/12 10:12 PM

I never got to fire a shot at an Eland but my PH said "why didn't you bring a real gun" (I had my 338-06 loaded with 200 grain Accubonds) to which I said "what is a real gun" to which he said "a 375H&H,the last three Eland shot here are still out there somewhere".

A 30-06,7mm mag and a 338 Win mag were the rifles.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"


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Sville
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: FATBOY404]
      #199684 - 17/01/12 01:39 AM

In Sweden over the years most of our soft skinned Moose have been shot from stands with 6,5x55. I have mostly been hunting Moose with specialist Moose dogs, thats a movable hunt and you don´t know how the situation will be when you are going to take the shot. Branches, trees and most often not perfect side shots. So I have preferred to use over the years 358 NM, 9,3x62, 9,3x74R. I have felt more comfortable with that extra. Could be a psychological question? One Fallow deer I shot dead in the chest last week with my 9,3x74R, I shot it on 50 meters. Afterwards I noticed that I had shot off a 10 mm branch 2 meters in front of me. Probably just luck that the bullet anyway did go straight for 48 meters.
Afterwards I thought of what had happend if I got a smaller caliber. It´s overkill for a Fallow, but good if something happens. //Staffan


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HogPilot
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: Sville]
      #199694 - 17/01/12 02:35 AM

I tend to err on the large side. There is an argument here about being able to fully penetrate the chest cavity with a non-obstructed, broadside shot. I look at it a bit differently.

A big game hunt, whether guided or "on you own" represents a large investment of time, energy, and money. I don't want to have to wait on the perfect broadside shot that may or may never present itself. I prefer using the largest caliber possible as long as it can be shot well without flinch. To me that means practice and nothing more. I want to be able to place my shot from what ever angle is presented to me and reach the vital organs.

What does that mean in terms of caliber and game? Here are few examples: Please note these are the calibers I own so any within the same power capabilities are implied as well.

Whitetail deer: 270 Win, 7mm Mag., or 300H&H.

Elk: 300H&H or 340 Weatherby Mag.

Moose: 340 Weatherby Mag. or 375H&H.

Brown Bear: 375H&H or 416 Rigby.

Leopard: 300H&H

Lion: 375H&H or 416 Rigby.

Buffalo: 375H&H, 416 Rigby, 500NE

Elephant: 416 Rigby or 500NE

Plains game: 300H&H or 340 WBY.

I normally hunt Dangerous Game when in Africa so am constrained by the limits of 2 rifles on the trip. I've used the 375H&H on animals as small as Steinbuck using a solid without undue damage to the pelt. I fail to see any real disadvantage to being overgunned especially when matching the bullet to the game to prevent damage. I can't say the opposite however as I do believe it possible to attempt to take large tough game with too small a weapon. Not to say that the smaller weapon will not kill the animal, but it may not do so in a timely manner leading to the animal escaping to die a slow and painful death. I just don't understand the fascination with experimenting with how small can you go and still get the job done.


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DarylS
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: FATBOY404]
      #199704 - 17/01/12 03:43 AM

Quote:

I never got to fire a shot at an Eland but my PH said "why didn't you bring a real gun" (I had my 338-06 loaded with 200 grain Accubonds) to which I said "what is a real gun" to which he said "a 375H&H,the last three Eland shot here are still out there somewhere".

A 30-06,7mm mag and a 338 Win mag were the rifles.




I have always liked big bullets, large calibres for the game hunted. I've never hunted Africa and probably never will. It is just too expensive and I'd rather hunt Australia with friends here.

The reason for quoting FatBoy404's post, is that similar things have happened here on moose and with the same calibers he notes, 30/06, 7 mag, .338 and I can add .300 Win Mag and .300 WTBY mag.

No - we didn't lose the moose due to a pair of incredible Austrian tracking hounds and no, I am not saying moose are the same as Eland, but wounded game is wounded game. Some do react differently to others.

I am saying that there are people with much more money than shooting talent and therein lies the rub - would they have not wounded the Eland with an even harder kicking .375 - you bet they would, in my opinion. I've been seeing similar hunters over the 30 years span of time I was guiding, then again, sometimes it just goes wrong, terribly wrong.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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500Nitro
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: DarylS]
      #199712 - 17/01/12 05:05 AM


HogPilot

"I want to be able to place my shot from what ever angle is presented to me and reach the vital organs. "


I am almost the same, I use the 5th rib on bigger game like Buffalo as a general rule and by using a bigger calibre and heavier bullets, I can achieve this.


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xausa
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: Bigfive]
      #199725 - 17/01/12 07:02 AM

When I had my first "African battery" built in the early 1960's, as a result of reading Taylor's "African Rifles and Cartridges" my choice of calibers was 7mm Remington Magnum, .375-.338 Chatfield-Taylor and .458 Winchester Magnum. The choice of these short magnum calibers was partly dictated by the fact that all three rifles were based on double heat treated 1903 Springfield actions, with their magazines designed for the .30-'06. Although those particular rifles never made it to Africa, I still think they were a good choice and I would not hesitate to recommend them.

When I actually did go to Africa in 1971, I took a much battered pre-64 Winchester Model 70 in .300 H&H Magnum, a Krieghoff Teck over and under double rifle three barrel set, consisting of rifle barrel pairs in .458 Winchester Magnum and .375 H&H Magnum, and shotgun barrels in 20 gauge 3" magnum. My third rifle was based on a P-14 Enfield action, and chambered for a wildcat cartridge of my own design, the .505 SRE, which is a .30-'06 length rimless cartridge based on shortened .460 Weatherby Magnum brass, and propelling a 570 grain bullet at 2150 fps from a 22" barrel.

Over the course of three trips, totalling eleven weeks, I used the .505 for three elephants, one rhino and five buffalo. I used the .458 WM for one elephant and one buffalo. I used the .375 H&H with 300 grain Silvertip bullets for one lion, one leopard, two elands, one greater kudu and one lesser kudu. All the rest of the plains game, including sable, wildebeest, hartebeest, oryx (both Beisa and fringe eared), waterbuck (both Defassa and common), zebra (both Burchell's and Grevy's), impala, Grant's gazelle, Peter's gazelle, Thompson's gazelle, gerenuk and dik-dik, were taken with the .300 H&H, using 180 grain Silvertip bullets, which passed right through the smaller animals without expanding.

On my last trip, I took along a .222 Remington, which I used for plains game up to and including impala and down to klipspringer, and a 7X57 which I used on wildebeest, bushbuck and Peter's gazelle.

All of these calibers performed to my complete satisfaction, but keep in mind that I am an experienced competetive shooter with high powered rifles at ranges from 200 to 1000 yards, and that I am relatively impervious to recoil, especially so when shooting at game.

I would not maintain that these calibers are the minimum for the game taken. In fact, much of the game taken with the .300 H&H could just as easily have been taken with a .30-'06 or a 7X57, provided they were hit in the proper spot.

Were I to leave on a hunt again tomorrow, I would feel no compunction about taking exactly the same rifles again.


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mikeh416Rigby
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: xausa]
      #199728 - 17/01/12 07:36 AM

I imagine a soccer ball between the front legs, a third of the way up the body, and aim to place the bullet through the center of the soccer ball, from any angle, with an appropriate bullet: Barnes, Trophy Bonded, Swift A-frame, etc. It's never failed me.

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Bigfive
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #200020 - 19/01/12 11:17 PM

To many post to respond to.
NitroX, Thanks for the welcome back. It has been a long time. Yes i still do silly things like that.
I recently hunted giraffe in Limpopo province with a friend. We were out to shoot Hippo and buffalo as well. we shot the buffalo cow with a .458win mag loaded with 300gr LWHV Impala Bullets. Text book results. Shot her from about 20meters and everything went well. Old cow who caused some problems under the farm labourers and the other animal. Aggresive bitch. Had some flashbacks of my mother in law. Not part of the issue here but keep the bullet in mind.
Day before we were hunting 3 giraffe bulls of which I was fortunate to shoot 2.
My buddy (who shot the buff) shot the first giraffe with his 270win loaded with 110gr Impala LWHV bullets. This was after he nearly had to persuade the landowner with the very same gun. Good shot between the eyes from about 70 meters. Dropped in its tracks. Big bull with nice skin. I was up next and when the land owner asked about my rifle he nearly collapsed. I took a fair sized bull from about 100meter cleanly behind the head. The second bull was from about 140meters facing me and so did he fell to a shot between the eyes. All done with a .243win loaded with 65gr LWHV Impala bullets. NitroX, I told you I was still doing silly stuff.
I have taken basically every huntable animal in South Africa with that very same .243 win exept bigfive. I have shot kudu, wildebeest black and blue, warthog, bushpig,eland, giraffe and many more smaller ones with it. Now the question arise again? Is it to little gun for these animals? Please do keep in mind that I do a lot of culling and commercial hunting for butcheries etc and that all shots taken must be high up the neck or in the head otherwise the clients do not accept the meat. I firmly believe that with a well placed head shot and that small bullet travveling close to 4000fps I can shoot any animal on this continent.
Lastly, please keep in mind that I do not advocate this kind of practice and I would think that it would be very very irrisponsible for somebody to try who is unexperienced. I do this for money and I do it a lot. But at the end of the day the a very small caliber did all the jobs cleanly.

PS! The land owner afterwards told me that he totally changed his perspective of smaller calibers after the stunt myself and my friend pulled off. I even told him not to try it unless he is 500% sure he knows where his bullets are flying.

--------------------
"Hunting is a way of life"
Bigfive,South Africa


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SafariHunt
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: Bigfive]
      #200210 - 21/01/12 08:00 PM

Dantri,

Welcome back !

It might be that some of the magazines are afraid to put in anything that should be outside the minimum calibers that is set on the animals or that a lot of people don't like impala bullets ?

--------------------
"Sleeping under the African sky I can see nothing wrong with this world!"


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Schauckis
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: SafariHunt]
      #200236 - 22/01/12 01:50 AM

A good thread; I have been pondering about the same question many a time.

I certainly subscribe to what many others stated: often people tend to use too much gun on a safari.
On the other hand, the standard moose caliber in Finland is too small.
(I know - these are not DG, I will come to that.)
I have the very extensive experience of 2 (two) PG safaris. On both trips I used a .30-06 and on the other an 8,2x53R, too. Both calibers performed excellently, the .30-06 taking an eland bull @ a lazered 176 meters (199 yds) with a single shot.
Now, especially this experience plus the wide use of the 6,5x55 as moose rifle has made me think how small can you go.

If the .30-06 took the eland so nicely, would not a 7mm have done the same job? Probably so.
OK, so how about a 6,5mm? Probably so.
How small a gun could have done the same? I don't know.
Was the .30-06 enough gun? Apparently, it was as it did the kill. However, I still do not believe it was a sensible caliber to be used. Best would probably have been e.g. a .338 (mag) or 9,3x62 or thereabouts. I have no scientific way of proving this at all.
My hunting buddy and the PH strongly maintained I should have uset the .375 H&H and the director of the outfit nearly didn't believe his ears when he heard I had taken a one-shot kill on eland with a .30-06.

In Finland, the most common moose caliber is the .308 (180grs bullets). Probably more yet have been taken with the 7,62x53R i.e. essentially the same power.
However, given the size of the moose I firmly believe the most suited is the 9,3x62 or comparable. The moose is big and strong although not dangerous.

How about DG?
Over the past ten years or so, about once in a year a hunter has been attacked by a bear in Finland. The hunt may or may not have been for bear. In most cases, the hunter has fired in self-defence. Now, being mauled by a bear means the shot did not stop it. Why? Too small a caliber? Bullet failure? Poor or missed shot? All of the above?
I don't know but what I do know that these have been cases where the hunter used a .308 (maybe not in all cases, but in most cases).
I discussed the matter with a very experienced bear hunter who listened to my theories and nodded his head. On my question on suitable bear caliber he responded: "If you have a .308, by all means, don't buy anything smaller." He uses a 9,3x62 and his hunting partner a .45-70.
The 9,3 has gained more ground again as bear hunting has become more common.

For sure "overgunned" one cannot be in the sense that an animal cannot be killed too dead. However, it is possible to be undergunned.
Probably the only "absolute" limit I would set is that for elephant, the minimum is the 9,3x62 (or if rimmed, 9,3x74R). I.e. a .35 Whelen is too little, a 9,3 is not. The line has to go somewhere and I think it goes here. "I think" means I don't know nor can I substantiate this view with any hard data.

I think that I would maintain that the sensible minimum for DG is, broadly speaking, a .338 magnum.

Of course it all boils down to the hit and bullet performance.
A large caliber cannot compensate for a poor shot; and a small hole in the right place will bring instant death.
Considering the fact that a dangerous game animal may attack you, you will need good initial knock-down power, and especially if you're attacked you'll need some stopping power. This is brought by larger bore and heavier bullet - probably more so that high velocity.
Thus, a sensible limit can probably be discussed in an educated manner.

I certainly would not go bear hunting with anything smaller than a .30-06, and I would opt for something larger - 9,3x62. The same goes for lion, elephant, buffalo and so on.

If you look for a guidline as to "when does a caliber become too small" I don't have an answer.
Sensible minimums are set by game laws, PHs' recommendations and more experienced hunters' views. Put these together and for each animal you'll find the line.
As a closing comment, though, I would not too use too much gun, either. This results in poor shooting and too much recoil for a follow-up shot. Having never hunted elephant I'd say my maximum limit goes with the .416 Remington magnum.

- Lars/Finland

--------------------
A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot


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andrevannibos
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: Schauckis]
      #201178 - 31/01/12 02:10 AM

And yet another way to look at it....
You are hunting impala in big 5 country. You have the privilege of hunting alone and all by yourself. Are you under gunned with your 375, or are you over gunned for impala hunting (Remember that the chips can go down at the drop of a hat...)?

IMHO, carry what makes you feel happy! If you feel happy to shoot an impala with a 500 jeff, then do it! If not, use a smaller caliber, just make sure you trust your PH when the chips are down (or own a good pair of running shoes!)!

--------------------
Andre


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DarylS
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Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: andrevannibos]
      #201180 - 31/01/12 02:40 AM

Expanding monometal bullets have changed the rules somewhat. Buddy of mine put down a large Mulie buck last fall with his .22-250 and 45gr. TSX through the heart & lungs. The buck folded in 5 yards, not the normal 80 to 125yards like with his .270 produces. Something else is happening, I guess, with the quick expansion & high speed.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39681
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: Schauckis]
      #201202 - 31/01/12 05:32 AM

Lars

I shot my eland with a .30-06 too, one shot plus one. The second one was just an insurance shot to make sure on an animal hard hit already, heart shot it turned out to be. Was an angling shot from behind on a walking bull. The second was from closer range broadside on an animal standing there very sick. It only walked a few metres after being shot.

Another PH in the camp also claimed a .30-06 wasn't enough and Wayne my PH wanted to prove the clown wrong. He was a clown for other reasons, like not knowing a cape buffalo shoulder mount on the wall wasn't a bull but a cow ...

Our friend here on NE Erik also loaned me his 7x64 for the moose hunt in Norway. Again a one shot kill.

Both times perhaps adequate calibres, a little more would add a little more insurance.

On another subject I think using very light bullets in a calibre for game sized well above their normal usage is not wise. Can be done with very careful accurate shooting. But less margin for error. More chance of deflection IMO. The heavy for calibre bullets in theory should penetrate better and less deflection if bone is hit. JMO.

Also if hunting on safari, why risk not being able to take a shot, because the angle is not perfect, the only shots possible are less than ideal. The little extra can make a difference between going home successful or going home empty handed. And even worse, going home with a wounded animal lost in the bush and not recovered.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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granhaven
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Reged: 30/12/08
Posts: 44
Loc: Denmark
Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: NitroX]
      #201782 - 06/02/12 05:21 AM

Having read the thread questions and comments, I would like to add a few words regarding "commercial hunting" and the difference between coming home "empty handed".

I assume that the reason why we go hunting is because of the "Hunting" rather than presenting a trophy on the wall. The art of hunting is exactly this to get close to the animal and have the nerve to wait for the perfect moment. When deciding to shoot, the Hunting is over and making the shoot is the deciding moment that will tell if all the preparations were perfect or not.

Being "over gunned" could tempt to make shoots that were never to be taken if there were not "commercial" aspects of the Hunt, both on the side of the Guide as well as the Hunter.

I have for many years hunted with single shot rifles, and rarely shoot anything at long distance. The trophy is for me little more than a key to the memory of the Hunt, so using another half hour to get close is what creates this special memory that will still be there many years after. When NOT making a shot I frequently have a conversation with myself about "Why didn’t you shoot?" and the answer always boils down to:”I was not ready".
Having said that, I very often take shots where the situation only lasts a few seconds, or even a fraction of a second when an animal presents itself when escaping. The key point here is to anticipate the situation and know the window of opportunity when it is there.

Regarding shoot placement I rarely take a second shot at an animal, simply because I know where it was hit and a good heart & lung shot will never take the animal down unless you break bones.

I do intend to go to Africa to find a reasonable Cape Buffalo, and I really hope that I will have the time needed to get close and await the perfect moment or come back a second time, after all I won't be there to kill a Buffalo but to Hunt one.

Best regards, Peter


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gryphon
.450 member


Reged: 01/01/03
Posts: 5487
Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...
Re: When does a caliber become to small for specific species [Re: granhaven]
      #201797 - 06/02/12 11:09 AM

Quote:

Having read the thread questions and comments, I would like to add a few words regarding "commercial hunting" and the difference between coming home "empty handed".

I assume that the reason why we go hunting is because of the "Hunting" rather than presenting a trophy on the wall. The art of hunting is exactly this to get close to the animal and have the nerve to wait for the perfect moment. When deciding to shoot, the Hunting is over and making the shoot is the deciding moment that will tell if all the preparations were perfect or not.

Being "over gunned" could tempt to make shoots that were never to be taken if there were not "commercial" aspects of the Hunt, both on the side of the Guide as well as the Hunter.

I have for many years hunted with single shot rifles, and rarely shoot anything at long distance. The trophy is for me little more than a key to the memory of the Hunt, so using another half hour to get close is what creates this special memory that will still be there many years after. When NOT making a shot I frequently have a conversation with myself about "Why didn’t you shoot?" and the answer always boils down to:”I was not ready".
Having said that, I very often take shots where the situation only lasts a few seconds, or even a fraction of a second when an animal presents itself when escaping. The key point here is to anticipate the situation and know the window of opportunity when it is there.

Regarding shoot placement I rarely take a second shot at an animal, simply because I know where it was hit and a good heart & lung shot will never take the animal down unless you break bones.

I do intend to go to Africa to find a reasonable Cape Buffalo, and I really hope that I will have the time needed to get close and await the perfect moment or come back a second time, after all I won't be there to kill a Buffalo but to Hunt one.

Best regards, Peter




Spot on!

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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