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NitroXAdministrator
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Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ...
      #199532 - 15/01/12 11:25 PM



A lion some canned lion "hunters" and canned lion outfitters are raving about on facebook ....

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500Nitro
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: NitroX]
      #199533 - 15/01/12 11:36 PM


Where is it located ?

Do you have a link to the facebook page ?


A lion like that shouldn't be in a cage, he should be out sowing his seed throughout the land so more of them like him can be bred.

Edited by 500Nitro (15/01/12 11:37 PM)

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HogPilot
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #199548 - 16/01/12 02:21 AM

The "Hunting" of this cat could be made more interesting if done with a Paradox Drilling! We might even be more inclined to listen to the hunter's exciting story of how it was him or the cat!!! I can hear it now!!!

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Cazadero
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #199549 - 16/01/12 02:22 AM

Disgusting.

And when some schmuck has a full body mount done of it as he completes his big 5 and then gets an "award" for it, that will be even more disgusting.

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gryphon
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: Cazadero]
      #199554 - 16/01/12 04:59 AM

Interesting to know whom is who on the FB site that are exhibiting hunger pangs.

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mikeh416Rigby
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: Cazadero]
      #199578 - 16/01/12 11:33 AM

Agreed!

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DarylS
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: HogPilot]
      #199582 - 16/01/12 12:12 PM

Quote:

HogPilot - The "Hunting" of this cat could be made more interesting if done with a Paradox Drilling! We might even be more inclined to listen to the hunter's exciting story of how it was him or the cat!!! I can hear it now!!!





Yes - nasty - similar but perhaps not as bad as someone here buying a bear hide from a crooked Taxidermist, turnign it into a rug, then coming up with a harrowing story of life and death in it's taking?

At least with the cat, someone will go over there, pay lots of money which will in some way, help support wild game numbers. Isn't that the reason or one of the reasons for the lion farms?

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tinker
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: DarylS]
      #199587 - 16/01/12 01:02 PM

Big cat.
Dang.

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HogPilot
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: tinker]
      #199602 - 16/01/12 02:42 PM

Daryl,

As discussed on the other "Paradox" thread, there is a value to these cat "hunts" in that they help remove pressure on wild lion quotas. Money generated from the activity will be plowed back into the ranch operation and the SA model of conservation will be perpetuated. No problem there from my standpoint.

I'm just pointing out that we should all stand by to have hot air blown up our collective backsides as the "hunter" who eventually shoots this cat will, no doubt, have a tale of hair raising daring do, concocted with the help of his outfitter, about how "we had to shoot, it was us or him" or something to that nature. The hunt will be conducted from a standpoint of deception, and out of the back of a truck instead of on foot, and the hunter will attempt to perpetuate the deception of how he slayed the beast as it attacked the truck (when in reality it approached the truck looking to be fed as it had been, so many times before) so that we may hold him in high esteem and awe for his exceptional accomplishments in the face of "danger" while in the African Wild; well at least while in the African pasture of a local farm.

And if he happens to slay this beast with an interesting weapon such as a Paradox Drilling, well all the better as many will be willing to look past the lack of ethics and possible breach of local law, even when they have been exposed, in favor of praising the tool of its destruction!!!

If you read about a crime that was committed with an antique weapon, let's say a drive by shooting with an old WWII "Grease Gun" type machine gun, what would be the focus of your interest in the story. The crime committed or the weapon used? An extreme example to be sure, but an example none the less.

Haven't heard the story with the bear rug. But it sounds similar, eh? Is that a story that was on NX previously? If so, do you have a link to it?

Also, Daryl, this little rant wasn't aimed at you pardner. It was just a rant in general!

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tophet1
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: HogPilot]
      #199604 - 16/01/12 02:57 PM

(Stir) I'd shoot it...as I long as I knew its name first. It looks like a 'Trevor'.

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500Nitro
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: HogPilot]
      #199605 - 16/01/12 02:58 PM

We could end up with another of those great charging Lion videos from that canned hunt where one the hunters was knocked over.

I'll see if I can find it on youtube.


This is one I was thinking of, not sure if it is canned or not.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohvxdbtHALA

Edited by 500Nitro (16/01/12 03:01 PM)

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500Nitro
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #199607 - 16/01/12 03:05 PM


I do like this one though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KTQm4AU3caY&feature=related

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HogPilot
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #199608 - 16/01/12 03:09 PM

Tophet,

I was thinking Boros!

500,

As you probably know from the Paradox thread, I have been on 2 of these hunts. The first was conducted with a PH named Randy W. If you want his full name, PM me and I'll give it to you. He IS the PH in the charge video you are referring to. The "story" on that particular lion was that it killed a ranch hand 2 days prior and they were not hunting lion when they came across it. But being a" problem lion", they had to shoot it anyway. That's why it charged. They didn't have their "big guns" with them that day to stop it with.

Exactly what I'm talking about. What a crock of crap. There is always a bull shit story behind these "hunts".

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HogPilot
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: HogPilot]
      #199610 - 16/01/12 03:13 PM

500,

The first one you posted is Randy W. Canned hunt in SA. You can see the fence corner off to the right.


The second one is NOT a canned hunt. That one is from "In a Hunter's Shadow" and features Ronnie Kraus and Johan Calitz cleaning up a wounded lion that a lady hunter hit in the paw. This one is in Botswana and is the real deal! Johan is a very well respected PH in the Dangerous Game hunting business! Awesome footage, eh? Great camera man and great shot by Mr. Kraus. Balls of steel he has!!

In my opinion, the quality and execution of how the situation is handled in the second one as compared to the first, exemplifies the professionalism of the real dangerous game PH's as opposed to the "posers" conducting the canned hunts. Look at how out of control the canned hunt is as compared to how the professionals handle the second one.

Edited by HogPilot (16/01/12 03:17 PM)

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500Nitro
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: HogPilot]
      #199612 - 16/01/12 03:17 PM


Hogpilot

Sorry, yes, I realise the second one is NOT a canned hunt.

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Ripp
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: 500Nitro]
      #199614 - 16/01/12 03:30 PM

Quote:


Hogpilot

Sorry, yes, I realise the second one is NOT a canned hunt.




The second one was actually on tv not too long ago again...and yes, Johan is a VERY well respected PH...

Agree with the above...each to their own, but that is NOT hunting no matter how much hot air is blown up the backsides..

If someone doesnt have a problem with it, that is fine with me as well, but then at the very least call it what it is..not what is wasn't..

Ripp

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: HogPilot]
      #199617 - 16/01/12 03:54 PM

Quote:

Daryl,

As discussed on the other "Paradox" thread, there is a value to these cat "hunts" in that they help remove pressure on wild lion quotas. Money generated from the activity will be plowed back into the ranch operation and the SA model of conservation will be perpetuated. No problem there from my standpoint.



These people are not doing it for "conservation". Conversation benefits are probably just "by-products".


Quote:

If you read about a crime that was committed with .... The crime committed



Getting a bit out of hand here, alleging criminal behaviour in my opinion. As you said in the other thread, it is legal to shoot from the back of a bakkie in South Africa, however unethical or unsporting, so how can it be a "crime".

Certainly the "MGM lion" is South Africa.

Also one may have strong suspicions on what the case may be, but without actual facts, they are just suspicions.


Also is it illegal to shoot from a Landcruiser in Namibia, Zimbabwe, etc ? Lots and lots of 'hunters' do it for plains game. Yes unsporting, but you will see lots admit to doing it, and more do it but won't admit it. Myself, I have shot an impala, and a warthog from a bakkie. Why? Just because they were there. Usually I prefer to get off and hunt properly. Actually get annoyed if a PH thinks bakkie hunting is the way to go. Some guys, the good ones, insist on dismounting and hunting the right way.

Sometimes one sees a "forum" where "everyone" is against bakkie hunt, then give it a year, and "everyone" (the same guys sometimes ) where they admit to shooting off the back of a truck for almost entire "safaris". Ha ha, I won't name the forum. Not this one!

Bakkie hunting, not as common for dangerous game though is my guess. What do people think, do guys shoot buffalo from a bakkie? Leopard? Elephant?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (16/01/12 03:56 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: NitroX]
      #199621 - 16/01/12 04:21 PM

Quote:



Buffalo bull to be hunted outside Rustenburg in the NW. R59000.




Posted this before. Another advert on FB by a different outfitter. You can 'buy' this cape buff bull for that price for a hunt!

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John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: NitroX]
      #199625 - 16/01/12 05:20 PM

Quote:



A lion some canned lion "hunters" and canned lion outfitters are raving about on facebook ....



When I was in South Africa last August, one of the properties that we hunted on actually 'Bred' lions for Zoos etc, not hunting and had a couple like this one which was their "Prize" breeder and when I asked how much would he sell for I was told 'Start' at US$100k dollars so your one would need to be close to that price.

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

.

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HogPilot
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #199627 - 16/01/12 05:58 PM

John,

Concerning your response about the conservation being a by-product; I agree with you 100%.

Your point about the word "crime" is well taken but I would like to explain my use of the term. When it comes to ethics, what one man considers to be OK another may take offense to. Ethics are subjective and it is futile to try and hold others to your own standards. But this issue goes beyond ethics and here is why.

In countries where "wild Lions" live such as Zimbabwe, Zambia, Tanzania, and Mozambique, shooting from the back of a truck is illegal. In South Africa, it is not. I really don't know about Namibia as I haven't hunted there. But I've been around SA Lions and "wild Lions" enough to know that the only way one ends up close to one in a vehicle as in the Paradox thread clip, is in a park or on one of the South African Game Farm operations where canned Lion shooting takes place. Lets consider the following:

1) Hunting inside a park is illegal, so if this clip was taken in a park, the shooting of the cat was illegal. This I do not believe to be the case in this video.

2) If this clip was not taken in South Africa and not in a park, and was a "wild Lion", the shooting of the cat from the back of the truck was illegal.

3) Now here is the kicker to this argument. In South Africa, although it is legal to shoot plains game from the back of a vehicle, the shooting of large predators is controlled by TOPS legislation which strictly forbids the shooting of captive bred lions from the back of a vehicle. The regulation states that captive bred lion hunts MUST be conducted on foot once an adequate track as been established.

So in fact, we are not merely speaking about the ethics of this clip. I am unaware of any regulation in any African country that allows the legal shooting of a Lioness from the protection of the back of a truck. THIS IS THE VERY REASON THE STATEMENT "AS YOU CAN SEE, WE HAD TO SHOOT" WAS INSERTED INTO THE VIDEO CLIP. Without this statement which implies self defense, this video documents an illegal act being committed.

This is the reason this episode "disturbs me" as Gatsby puts it. I just can't get past the fact that hunters of the experience level generally found on this forum are more interested in what type of weapon was used in the video than what actually happened in the video.

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ozhunter
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: HogPilot]
      #199629 - 16/01/12 06:12 PM

As noted above. Captive bread lions are for collectors of impressive looking animals BUT it is not what I would consider true hunting.
The Calitz clip with Ronny Crouss is top footage indeed.

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Ripp
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: NitroX]
      #199743 - 17/01/12 12:47 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Daryl,

Bakkie hunting, not as common for dangerous game though is my guess. What do people think, do guys shoot buffalo from a bakkie? Leopard? Elephant?



Has not been my experience..all buff and one elephant have been walked up ...even tried walking up on a lion a few times..one day my PH, Ian, the trackers and I were within 16 yards of a couple lionesses and a younger male..it was a mexican standoff for over 10 minutes before one finally snarled and got up walked away..the rest followed her out...was pretty intense and fun to be a part of....

On another different hunt in Zim one day, we were out hunting buffalo when we hurt a cat in the bush up ahead of us several hundred yards..we very carefully approached..we did not see them however per the PH on that hunt and the trackers..they were actually mating ...

Can not see how you would drive over much of the country we were hunting in on foot...

Ripp

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ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: Ripp]
      #199754 - 17/01/12 02:27 PM

Yeah my experience was driving around on the tracks, looking for tracks of buffalo or elephant. Then getting out and tracking them. Or driving or walking to a high point and scanning the valleys and hill sides for the same. Once spotted a herd of elephant some seven kms away and set a pace and walk to intercept them and ambush them.

Another time on a viewing point on the escarpment over the Omay North area, on the roadside on the way in, a beautiful spot, could spot a bull ele here, a couple over there, a few more there, a herd of buffalo there - eureka, off we drove to get closer then walked to intercept them. That was a fun hunt.

The good point about big game areas is often there aren't a lot of tracks. And a lot of what is there, is actually blazed tracks made to extract animals after the kill, not before.

'

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: NitroX]
      #199764 - 17/01/12 03:54 PM



Going for $20G each ...

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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HogPilot
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Re: Wow a MGM lion trophy for the "right hunter" ... [Re: NitroX]
      #199766 - 17/01/12 04:23 PM

Fresh from the beauty shop!

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