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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Scoping a DR
      #17649 - 07/08/04 12:22 AM

I have a merkel 140-2 and need advice about putting a scope on it. It has a wide flat rib that could hold a pair of flat base bases. My worry is: could drilling and tapping the rib weaken the joining of the barrels?

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Scoping a DR [Re: bonanza]
      #17666 - 07/08/04 06:13 AM

Bonanza Simply drilling and tapping the rib is not the way to mount a scope on a double rifle! The QD bases need to be perminantly installed into the rib, by someone like JJ over at Champlin's. Sometimes the instalation of a scope will cause the rifle to have to be re-regulated. If you do scope it, the scope needs to be as light as is possible, and mounted as low as is possible.

No work should ever be done on any double rifle unless it is done by someone who understands double rifles! There are some very well known smiths, who do beautiful work on other type rifles. I wouldn't let them do anything on my doubles, other than shoot them! This is a very specialized field, and there are only a hand full of smiths in the USA, who are qualified to work on Double rifles!

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Scoping a DR [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #17678 - 07/08/04 05:42 PM

DUGABOY1 is correct. Let JJ Perodeau at Champlins install the scope mounts. Quality work does not come cheap, but a scope on your 9,3 will be a very good addition, and make it a much better hunting rifle.

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AussieMike
.300 member


Reged: 01/09/04
Posts: 236
Loc: Southern Tablelands, NSW, Aust...
Re: Scoping a DR [Re: NE450No2]
      #18758 - 01/09/04 03:44 PM

Bonanza,

I'd think twice about scoping a double rifle - I have three scoped doubles and only one regulates with and without the scope - even my Merkel 243 U/O shoots 12" groups at 50m with the scope vs 2" with open sights and its factory installed.

The one that does regulate is an old Cogswell and Harrison 372 2 which has been rechambered to 375 Flanged Mag and has had Weaver bases cobbled onto the rib. With a 4x Leopold in Weaver tip off rings it puts 6 Barnes X 250g (I know, I know!) into 4 inches at 100m.

My inclination now is to spend the money on ammo and really practice with the Express sights - its amazing how good you can get and at least you have two shots, rather than one shot and a risk you'll fire the wrong barrel and wound the target.

mike

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André
.333 member


Reged: 28/06/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Brussels (Belgium)
Re: Scoping a DR [Re: AussieMike]
      #18762 - 01/09/04 07:21 PM

Scoping a double generally alters barrels harmonics and a choice has to be made :

1. zero in the scope with 1 bbl. (= single-shot) ;
2. have the bbls. regulated with scope on, knowing they won't shoot the same afterwards without scope.

When I had my FN o/u 9,3x74R scoped, I chose the Swarovski 1,25-4x24, had the bbls. re-regulated (they now shoot in 1 hole at 50 m) and use it on 2x for close shots at running game.



--------------------
André
---------------------------------
3 shots do not make a group, they show a point of aim or impact.
5 shots are a group.

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Scoping a DR [Re: André]
      #19549 - 30/09/04 04:59 AM

Scoping a double rifle is akin to child molestation, its just not done ole boy!

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nopride2
.300 member


Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 108
Loc: Seattle, Wa.
Re: Scoping a DR [Re: atkinson6]
      #19554 - 30/09/04 12:54 PM

All the children I'm molesting are over 40.

Scope a classic Brit double, no. A modern industrial double, hell yes. If I were to order a Searcy, this is how it would be sighted. A 2X Leoupold compact or steel Weaver 1, 1 1/2 with a post in detachable mounts. Iron backups, a sourdough front with a peep rear.

Dave

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Martin
.224 member


Reged: 15/09/04
Posts: 24
Loc: British
Re: Scoping a DR [Re: nopride2]
      #19562 - 01/10/04 04:41 AM

Why does virtually everyone seem so obsessed with scoping a DG gun? I think the problem is just the modern gun culture: young people often never learn to shoot well with iron sights, which given that NO "off the shelf" American rifle has enough drop to truly come up clean, is perhaps not suprising. It's "catch 22".

I bought my first rifle when I was eighteen, during the early sixties: a Belgium FN .270. I never bothered to fit a scope - we do not shoot at real distance in Britain - and practiced at the "running deer range" at Bisley. Several years later (we tend to keep our rifles longer) I fitted a x4 scope. By this time, of course, I had gotten used to the original feel of the gun and hated the scope. It came off after about a month.

Of course there is a place for scopes - but on a DG rifle? And a double, at that! If you cannot hit a target from a 100 yards in, without a scope, then practice, practice and practice. If you still can't manage it - take up fishing! And never, never, let your kids use a scoped gun until they are truly proficient with iron sights.

Martin

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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Scoping a DR [Re: Martin]
      #19565 - 01/10/04 05:36 AM

In reply to:

And never, never, let your kids use a scoped gun until they are truly proficient with iron sights.




Very good advice. When learning to shoot as a young boy with my grandfather, I was only allowed to use an open sighted .22LR for several years. I have no doubt that it made me a better all-around shot. My cousins on the other hand were given scoped .22LRs by their father. They had a much harder time later on learning to shoot well with open sights, while the transition for me over to a scope was relativly easy.

Erik D.

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zimhunter
.333 member


Reged: 05/02/04
Posts: 388
Loc: Southern Arizona
Re: Scoping a DR [Re: bonanza]
      #19572 - 01/10/04 12:06 PM

It sometimes becomes necessary to see the target especially after you become 70 and wear trifocals. I have scoped 2 9.3 x 74's and an 8 x 60rs Geyger. All three were very accurate both before and after . I didn't notice any perceptible change in impact or grouping. I don't scope my 470 or 375 doubles but I don't expect to shoot anything beyond 50yds or anything small with either one.

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3482
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Scoping a DR [Re: zimhunter]
      #19577 - 01/10/04 06:33 PM

I have to agree with nopride2, scoping a Brit SxS double is tantamount to vandalism, whereas scoping a modern 'mass-produced' double like bonanza's Merkel is ho-hum. When my eyes eventually go, I too will acquire a Merkel, Kreighoff, or similar and scope it. Till then, its express sights on everything.

BTW, I haven't fired a shot at game with a scoped rifle for several decades, and I hunt a fair bit. Open sights are great once you get used to them. I chuckle quietly to myself every time my hunting mates from 'down south' retrieve their firearms from the airline baggage-handlers in Darwin, and immediately enquire about a range-session to check their zero!

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Scoping a DR [Re: Marrakai]
      #19612 - 05/10/04 09:35 AM

To start with a double is a 50 yard gun, but I'll give you a 150 yards max...I don't need a scope, peep or anything but a shallow V at 150 yards...and yes I am another that learned to shoot irons from childhood, as have my children and my grandchildren..I am also 70 years old and wear bifocals but I can still shoot iron sights..Any good eye doc can fix that old crutch...Age is merely an inconvience, not an excuse..

Trouble is today, the baby boomers never shot irons, and most don't believe they can until they make a conscious effort, then they are, for the most part, pleasantly surprised at the accuracy they can obtain with a properly sighted in iron sighted rifle, even at extended ranges.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: Scoping a DR [Re: atkinson6]
      #19615 - 05/10/04 11:45 AM

Be carefull about what you say about baby boomers.
I started with an old lithgow single shot .22 which I still own.
My milatary rifle had open sights which I used in Vietnam.
All my big calibre rifles are open sight except for one 308.
And guess what I'm only 56.

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"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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nopride2
.300 member


Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 108
Loc: Seattle, Wa.
Re: Scoping a DR [Re: atkinson6]
      #19618 - 05/10/04 12:11 PM

I to learned to shoot with iron sights. I can still shoot with them at 62 years. However, I'm a better shot with a scope.

Dave

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