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NitroXAdministrator
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Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated
      #195839 - 05/12/11 10:34 PM

This Mannlicher rifle in 6.5x54 M-S was advertised for sale online about a year ago. Tried to buy it but it had already been "sold", so ended up buying a Steyr instead. Will post another thread on that one soon.

Then while travelling up to the Top End last year, in Alice Springs, checked my mobile for messages and the gun shop had left a message the earlier sale had fallen through. A deposit had never been paid. So I bought it.

I am interested in what members can tell me about it. And whether it is worth restoring to make it into a sporting rifle of a standard of the usual M-S sporting rifles?

Is it an ex-military rifle? Or ?

Any other information would be appreciated.

The current stock is not too bad if it was originally ex-mil but redone. But the inletting etc is pretty sloppy with gaps etc. The safety does not even turn. The trigger is very basic. The bore isn't too bad.




















Thanks to DarwinMauser for originally spotting it for me. I know he wanted photos a year ago!

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Igorrock
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: NitroX]
      #195849 - 06/12/11 12:12 AM

Yours rifle is a sporster, originally militarymodel so called "Greek-Mannlicher". IMHO it need a better stock and new rear and front sights. And the bolt "knob" should be modifield better, for example Mannlicher Schönauer m1950 way.

The rifles original outfit:



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Edited by CptCurl (24/12/11 10:46 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: Igorrock]
      #195856 - 06/12/11 01:51 AM

Thanks for that info. Surely that stock isn't original? Or were there "budget" models made?

I think from the stock inletting on the barrel it looks like it was done after market..

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Igorrock
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: NitroX]
      #195864 - 06/12/11 04:01 AM

I think yours stock is an original military one but somebody has "civilized" it. Original mannlicher inlets are allways very high quality.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: Igorrock]
      #195940 - 07/12/11 01:33 AM

Thanks.

Now I originally bought this rifle to "improve", restock, clean up, change the open sights as you suggest etc.

Since then have thought about the costs, and without doubt, doing it up properly will cost more than acquiring a good condition sporter vintage in Germany or Austria.

From friends comments at least, around $1600 or so to buy a nice old one still in good condition?

Restocking it will cost that at least.

What do people think? Just use it as it is? Acquire one in good condition? What sort of price could be expected?

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Igorrock
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: NitroX]
      #195950 - 07/12/11 03:18 AM

If this rifle is mine, I would order a blind factory-made stock in normal lenght for it and just pay somebody skillfull stockmaker to do inlets and checkerings.Something like casper50´s mannlicher in other topic:



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Edited by CptCurl (24/12/11 10:47 PM)

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DarylS
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: Igorrock]
      #195956 - 07/12/11 03:48 AM

John, if you don't want to re-stock it yourself, then leave it until you do, or sell it. I would personally re-stock it.
To change it to this (stockand sights), would be prohibitively expensive and imho the end result would not be worth what it cost due to the barreled action's origin.


It would definitely be a nice little hunting rifle, though.

--------------------
Daryl


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Edited by CptCurl (24/12/11 10:47 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: DarylS]
      #195961 - 07/12/11 03:59 AM

I would want to keep it with a M-S carbine stock.

Probably a decade ago, I came to a whisker away from buying two M-S at a gun show in Aust. Both were full length rifles with the "half" stock, whatever it is called. One in 6.5x54 and the other in 9.5x57. The 9.5mm also had a nice tang mounted peep sight.

Both were in reasonable condition and both were at the price I mentioned above. Often a lot more in Aust.

As usual one kicks oneself later for not making the right decision, but funds are never unlimited. And I also wanted a full length carbine stock rifle then as well.

Even with this rifle being very plain it has a nice feel to it.

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darwinmauser
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: NitroX]
      #196226 - 09/12/11 10:08 PM



Thanks for posting the photo's John, your's looks to be a bit better than the one I bought for the same money. I notice they have cut the charger bridge from yours, whoever did the sporter job on mine did the same thing .I'm not sure I like that, most of the original sporting rifles I have seen retained the bridge.

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GK
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: darwinmauser]
      #196404 - 11/12/11 02:24 PM

John,
Yes this is Greek 1903/14 rifle that somebody had a go at sporterizing.

If it was mine (and the bore is good - most Greek M-S have crap bores), I would get a cheap (<$200 on the wood, $25 set up fee and say $50 for postage) walnut stock from Richards Microfit (they offer a greek 1903 inlet option)and have a go doing the fitting work myself.

I agree it's definetly not worth a proper restock (there are plenty of genuine commercial M-S's that are in need of a proper re-stock anyway), but if you like tinkering and learning this would be a good project. As suggested a new set of sights and loping a few inches off would help to transform this into a good fun utility rifle.

George

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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: GK]
      #196422 - 11/12/11 05:59 PM

Quote:

John,
Yes this is Greek 1903/14 rifle that somebody had a go at sporterizing.



So GK, you are saying it is a Greek mil rifle that has been modified?

Quote:

If it was mine (and the bore is good - most Greek M-S have crap bores), I would get a cheap (<$200 on the wood, $25 set up fee and say $50 for postage) walnut stock from Richards Microfit (they offer a greek 1903 inlet option)and have a go doing the fitting work myself.

I agree it's definetly not worth a proper restock (there are plenty of genuine commercial M-S's that are in need of a proper re-stock anyway), but if you like tinkering and learning this would be a good project. As suggested a new set of sights and loping a few inches off would help to transform this into a good fun utility rifle.

George



Ha ha, me doing the wood work. No chance.

Will have a look at those Richards Microfit stocks and see what they look like.

Thanks.

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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: darwinmauser]
      #196425 - 11/12/11 06:16 PM

Quote:



Thanks for posting the photo's John, your's looks to be a bit better than the one I bought for the same money. I notice they have cut the charger bridge from yours, whoever did the sporter job on mine did the same thing .I'm not sure I like that, most of the original sporting rifles I have seen retained the bridge.



Can I ask what you have done with yours, or intending to do with it?


***


Quote:

Will have a look at those Richards Microfit stocks and see what they look like.



They seem to be mostly laminated stocks? I found a reference to inletting for a 1903 Greek action but no Mannlicher full wood carbine stocks?


Daryl and Igorrock,

Thanks again for your comments.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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Edited by NitroX (11/12/11 06:19 PM)

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darwinmauser
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: NitroX]
      #196435 - 11/12/11 08:21 PM



Yes John it is most certainly a Greek military rifle that has been modified. I have emailed Boyd's Gunstock Industries to see if they do an inlett for the mannlicher, their classic style looks to be quite reasonable and are available in Walnut or laminate. I bought a Richards microfit laminate a few years back ,it took about 6 months to get here and I was less than impressed with what I received ,there was a lot of work to be done to make it serviceable and the laminate is very soft so I won't be going the laminate route again.Great American gunstocks used to do a full length mannlicher but from what I have read on the net it's a bit of a lucky dip as to what you get and as with all the American made stocks, returns aren't a viable option for us.

As for my rifle ,I to will be looking for an inexpensive stock for mine ,hopefully Boyds will be a goer as their prices are quite low ( around about $100.00) The metal will need to be coated because of the light pitting ,it's not deep but it is all over the barrel so gunkote or something similar is probably the easiest solution . Internally the barrel is pitted but has strong rifling ,I'm trying cast bullets for it ,I cast 140 grain round nose pills and in the next day or 2 I'll road test them to see if they will shoot and how much leading if any it produces with a 30 grain load of 2206. All going well it should be a good thing for hunting off of a quad bike.

Pete

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GK
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: NitroX]
      #196436 - 11/12/11 08:27 PM

Quote:


So GK, you are saying it is a Greek mil rifle that has been modified?




Nitro,
Yes, your rifle was without any doubt originally made by Steyr as a Greek M1903/14. The stock is also definetly a modified military stock although it may not be its original stock.

Greece was involved in lots of wars but had no ability to manufacture arms, so rifles got re-built several times (basically a Greek MS like yours would have seen use in both Balkans conflicts, WW1, the Asia Minor excursion, WW2 and the Greek civil war). Unfortunately this was more like the russian style of re-furb that invovled mixing everything as required. I have 5 Greek MS and only one has all matching parts.

Having said that, some Greek contract MS were used by the English and Scotish guntrade to build upon (similar to what happened with Mausers), however nothing on yours shows any sign that it was worked on by any English gun builders.

The quickest way to spot a real commercial MS over the Greek MS is that the commercial actioned ones have a externally visible ejector slot cut into the action on the RHS (towards the front end of the split in the reciever). Also Greek rifles have a small 5 pointed start or a cross within a circle (actually a represents ancient Herculean shield) on all the steel components. Also the bolt and the LHS of the action and barrel have a tiny stamp of St. George slaying a dragon.

Richards may not do a full mannlicher style stock but they can definely supply various grades of walnut inletted for the Greek MS.

George

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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: GK]
      #196451 - 11/12/11 09:51 PM

John every time prev i have gone into Richards micro stocks site my A/virus system issued a warning,haven't been for some time and dont know if its current.

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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: gryphon]
      #196455 - 11/12/11 10:00 PM

Some feedback here dated a few years back John

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=248680

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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: gryphon]
      #196460 - 11/12/11 10:20 PM

G,

I don't like laminate stocks anyway.

Putting one of them on a hundred year old rifle would be akin to molesting an old age pensioner.

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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: NitroX]
      #196465 - 11/12/11 11:13 PM

From your description, 1914 date and crest with cross, you have the remains of a Greek military Mannlicher-Schoenauer model 1903/14 in 6.5x54 M-Sch. You will find hints to gunsmithing in Frank de Haas: "Bolt Action Rifles". Spare parts are sometimes available from Numrich, pre-inletted and -shaped stocks from www.gunstocks.com , even Stutzen fl ones in many grades of wood. The British gunmakers, especially George Gibbs of Bristol, once imported complete rifles from the military production and sporterized them to various degrees. My own was restocked and resighted by Gibbs in 1905.


Your problem with the safety not turning to the safe position stems from that "gunsmith" exaggerating when he tried to weld on a low profile bolthandle. Though he removed the stripper clip guides and cut deep recesses into both the action rail and the stock, the bolt still cannot turn to the "fully closed" position.

Edited by CptCurl (24/12/11 10:48 PM)

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Mike_Bailey
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: kuduae]
      #196467 - 11/12/11 11:50 PM

You could do what I did to mine Nitro ! (but as everyone said and I agree, get the pistol grip more "open" or raking, whatever the term is), that´s the only bit I forgot to specify best, Mike

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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: NitroX]
      #196510 - 12/12/11 05:50 PM

Quote:

G,

I don't like laminate stocks anyway.

Putting one of them on a hundred year old rifle would be akin to molesting an old age pensioner.



.....and there'll be no rifle molestation on this site.

I see what you mean John. If the bore is still good, then it may be worth fixing into a nice stock.
I'm just wondering if my Vergueiro stock pattern would not suffice. It is very similar to the stock on the one Igorrock posted.


The pattern could be modified to suit a full stock and the inletting may be close as well.

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Edited by CptCurl (24/12/11 10:48 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: AFRO408]
      #196830 - 15/12/11 08:50 PM

That rifle does look nice. I will have a look at some M-S full wood photos and see how it compares. But yes I would be looking for a full wood carbine stock still.

Thanks.

PS I wonder how a half wood / forend like that would go on the Steyr?

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darwinmauser
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: NitroX]
      #196840 - 15/12/11 09:57 PM



I got an email from Boyds gunstock industries today , ....no they don't do an inlet for an MS. This leaves us with Richards or Great American Gunstocks. Richards only do a half stock as far as I know and GAG used to do a full length MS stock but their feedback is so so.

Pete

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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: NitroX]
      #199893 - 18/01/12 07:23 PM

John, if you get some body filler, fill and shape sections that you don't like, on the existing stock, then you could use it as a pattern, to cut a nice piece of walnut for a full length stock.

The stock I used, as a pattern for the Vergueiro stock, was from an old Parker Hale and I just filled, filed and shaped till it looked and felt right.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: AFRO408]
      #199904 - 18/01/12 08:25 PM

Quote:

John, if you get some body filler, fill and shape sections that you don't like, on the existing stock, then you could use it as a pattern, to cut a nice piece of walnut for a full length stock.

The stock I used, as a pattern for the Vergueiro stock, was from an old Parker Hale and I just filled, filed and shaped till it looked and felt right.



Is the old stock damaged if used as a pattern?

The reason. Wouldn't it be better to get a real M-S full length stock to use a pattern?

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AFRO408
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Re: Mannlicher 6.5x 54 M-S - info on it appreciated [Re: NitroX]
      #200879 - 28/01/12 03:05 PM

Sorry for being so slow John,

If the operator is careful, there should be no damage and wrapping the good stock in masking tape beforehand would prevent any damage. It also depends on how the pattern is mounted on the machine, that's why I suggested boging up the old stock.

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