SingleShot
.224 member
Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 22
Loc: Springfield, Virginia, USA
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I have had a .458 Win Mag Ruger No1 since 1968. While I have reloaded for 43 years and never felt limited by the case volume, the expectation of lower pressures with larger volume is something I would be interested in. With a .458 Win Mag case length and volume of 2.5” and 92 grains, respectively, I have watched with interest all the arguments for more case volume, first with the .458 Lott (2.8” and 103 grains) and then the .458 Express (3” and 111 grains). Ok, I am ready to ream. But if the .458 Lott is so much better than the .458 Win Mag, why is the .458 Express not even better than the .458 Lott? Why is the .458 Express not all the rage instead of the .458 Lott? The 3” case would help reduce pressure for the same muzzle velocity, right? It would be like a .450NE for bolt guns, right? With all the new, large, long range cartridges and actions, it seems to me that action length is already being driven up by other market forces. Is it time for the .458 Express?
SingleShot
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ovny
.375 member
Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
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I think if you are determined to change the cartridge should go to the best and the best 458 Express (all in the event that will keep your rifle and what you want is to adapt your bedroom the new cartridge). If not, and you go to buy a new rifle I would buy a 450 Rigby or jump to the size 500.
Oscar.
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I am Spanish
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ozhunter
.400 member
Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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I'm quite happy with my 45+Cal rifles to have a muzzle Velocity of between 2100 to 2200fps and I also happen to reload so I'm quite content with the compact 458Win. However if you really want the additional Velocity along with all that comes with it OR you want to step up to 550grn bullets then it might be worth up sizing.
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eagle27
.400 member
Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1214
Loc: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Z...
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We have a kiwi hunter here called Jim Frost who heads off to Africa every other year it seems and writes of his experiences in our NZ Guns and Hunting magazine. Jim started off with a Brno 458Win and progressively has open this up to 458 Lott and finally up to the 458 Express 3". His last article published in NZ G&H Issue #121 Nov/Dec 2010 is a great one for his hunting of elephant in Zimbabwe using the 458 Express and contains some good information and observations from Jim on the big Express. Points Jim makes in favour of the Express is that it properly fills the magazine getting rid of the cartridge slap that is experienced when using the 458Win and the Lott cartridges and there is no powder compression required to obtain good velocity at low pressure. He calls it a "real" elephant rifle
Very worthwhile getting a copy of this article. PM me if you can't find one.
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Ash
.400 member
Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1654
Loc: Australia
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Righto I'll be the guy who jumps in and says "what about brass availability"?
Is the Express easy to find brass for? I imagine as far as big bores go .458 WM and Lott brass is everywhere.
Still, express is fairly different for the usual. (well, I don't hear or read much about it so will say it's less common.) So go for it! Well, go for whatever you want, such is the beauty of firearms.
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ozhunter
.400 member
Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia
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No doubt the LOTT or bigger is better suited for the large CZ-BRNO action but for the M98, the Win Mag fits well.
In any case I'm soon to get my "Smith" to start work on a M98 in 458LOTT.
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ovny
.375 member
Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
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Quote:
We have a kiwi hunter here called Jim Frost who heads off to Africa every other year it seems and writes of his experiences in our NZ Guns and Hunting magazine. Jim started off with a Brno 458Win and progressively has open this up to 458 Lott and finally up to the 458 Express 3". His last article published in NZ G&H Issue #121 Nov/Dec 2010 is a great one for his hunting of elephant in Zimbabwe using the 458 Express and contains some good information and observations from Jim on the big Express. Points Jim makes in favour of the Express is that it properly fills the magazine getting rid of the cartridge slap that is experienced when using the 458Win and the Lott cartridges and there is no powder compression required to obtain good velocity at low pressure. He calls it a "real" elephant rifle
Very worthwhile getting a copy of this article. PM me if you can't find one.
I sent you a private message.
Oscar.
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I am Spanish
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FATBOY404
.400 member
Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
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The secret to the standard 458 is BM2 and 2206H.
You can easily get 2150 fps with a 500 grainer (which will handle anything on the planet).
The other thing to do on the Brno's with so much room in the mag is glue a bit of incertion rubber down the front of the mag box as this takes up some room and stops the RN soft points from deforming under recoil.
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"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"
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bonanza
.400 member
Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
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Good question. I had a look on Midway and there is only Bertram (soft) brass at $80.00 for 20 - ouch!
If (and that's a big if) I were to ream my sweet 1978 1-H .458 WM, it would be the Lott.
Why?
a) You can still shoot a .458 WM without worry.
b) Good availability of ammo and Horandy brass.
However, I have no plans as I like it just the way it is. 
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"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.
"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus
"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."
"Yo! Mr. White"
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DarylS
.700 member
Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27690
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
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Seems many guys with these big guns shoot factory ammo. Those who shoot mainly or only handloads can chamber to anything they want and if the brass isn't made, make it.
The Rugers are easy, just go with a shortened .45 3 1/4" case and a .45/70 extractor - or stay with full length brass and make 2,400fps or more with 500's. Turn it into a gopher gun with Barnes 250gr. "X"'s. 
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Daryl
"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V
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tinker
.416 member
Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
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I really like my .458win
It works as well at 4f as it does at 114f with the right powder.
In that broad range I don't have pressure problems.
One load, all condition, kills all.
It's just easy.
Cheers
Tinker
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--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--
"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...
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ovny
.375 member
Reged: 19/06/08
Posts: 591
Loc: Spain
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And I'm unhappy with everything I read on the 458 Lott. I pretty much like a rifle shot, underpowered.
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I am Spanish
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poprivit
.333 member
Reged: 09/04/07
Posts: 398
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
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Well, I've taken Cape Buf and elephant with my 458 Lott. Not a one of them ever stood more than 2-3 seconds. One buf I had to take a Texas Brain Shot with a solid and it went in the left hindquarter and we recovered the slug in the windpipe less than one inch from the skin. THAT buf went 100 yards with a 45 cal hole right through his heart. Dead at impact, but just didn't get the message. I'll stick with the Lott. Read about Jack Lott's adventure with the 458 WM. Idon't have a link, but he should be easy to find.
Edited by poprivit (25/11/11 07:45 AM)
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Tatume
.400 member
Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
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Quote:
Read about Jack Lott's adventure with the 458 WM. I don't have a link, but he should be easy to find.
The way I remember the story Jack Lott gut shot the buffalo, and admitted that the whole problem was of his own making. Then later in life he changed the story and blamed the cartridge.
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Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member
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500Nitro
.450 member
Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
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Quote:
Well, I've taken Cape Buf and elephant with my 458 Lott. Not a one of them ever stood more than 2-3 seconds. One buf I had to take a Texas Brain Shot with a solid and it went in the left hindquarter and we recovered the slug in the windpipe less than one inch from the skin. THAT buf went 100 yards with a 45 cal hole right through his heart. Dead at impact, but just didn't get the message. I'll stick with the Lott. Read about Jack Lott's adventure with the 458 WM. Idon't have a link, but he should be easy to find.
The 458WM would probably have done exactly the same.
Like you, I've had animals dead on their feet shot with .510 calibres but run away, going to a bigger cartridge wouldn't have made a difference.
458WM will do everything anyone wants in the world.
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SingleShot
.224 member
Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 22
Loc: Springfield, Virginia, USA
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Those are all great comments, mostly on why I should not ream to 458 Express. There are a more reasons why I should probably leave the gun as is.
1. I bought the gun new a long time ago and it is an early serial number. I hate to modify it now.
2. I don’t need more case volume. It is a single shot and I can seat the bullet farther out if needed.
3. I don’t need more gun. 458WM is plenty of gun. Anyway, I have another Ruger No1, re-barreled to 500NE.
Anytime I feel the lust for “more gun” creeping over me, I take the 500NE and a few hot reloads with 750 grain bullets over to the range.
I squeeze of a round,
regain my balance,
regain my senses,
appologize to the wide eyed lady with the .22 on my right,
answer the “What the hell was that?” questions from the guy on my left,
drive home, eat dinner and brush my teeth, all without the use of my right arm,
and reconsider my desire for “more gun”.
Just kidding. But I think I will keep the 458WM as is.
SingleShot
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DarylS
.700 member
Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27690
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
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About seating out with straight walled cases. Most of these develope better ignition and accuracy due to better internal ballistics if the bullet is crimped, heavily. if there is no crimping groove where you want to crimp the bullet, the Lee Collet die, called the Factory Crimp Die can be used when no other die works without buckling the case. They are available for about any ctg. and Lee will make one for you, for rounds that aren't standard.
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Daryl
"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V
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tinker
.416 member
Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
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Also on seating the bullet out -- I run 350gr Barnes TSX bullets to the max length that will fit in the magazine box which gives me case capacity for Lott-sized powder charges. At that length I still have plenty of room in the throat and leade. Works very well. Same general practice should work for you to get a 'bigger case' out of the 458Win in your Ruger #1 with whatever bullet you choose.
I crimp.
Cheers
Tinker
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--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--
"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...
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SingleShot
.224 member
Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 22
Loc: Springfield, Virginia, USA
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If I knew how to get a picture into this box, I could post a picture of the rounds and bullets I use.
Single shot.
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JeffK
.275 member
Reged: 06/03/11
Posts: 95
Loc: Perth, WA
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Quote:
Anyway, I have another Ruger No1, re-barreled to 500NE.
I'm just about to have the exact same thing built - do you mind me asking what barrel profile you went with, and if you have any pics?
Thanks!
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Regards, Jeff
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SingleShot
.224 member
Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 22
Loc: Springfield, Virginia, USA
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Jeff,
The barrel is a straight taper with New England Custon ghost ring sight. I was not trying to save weight. Dennis Erhardt at the frontier Gun Shop in Helena, MT built the gun for me. I love the gun and shoot it often. I don't know how to post a picture but I have plenty of them.
SingleShot
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Altamaha
.333 member
Reged: 29/12/08
Posts: 376
Loc: Washington State USA
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Quote:
If I knew how to get a picture into this box, I could post a picture of the rounds and bullets I use.
Single shot.
Easy as pie:
photo needs to be on a web site or a photo hosting site such as photobucket
Then put the photo address between [img] and [/img]
Like this:
[img]insert the link to the server the photos is on with the photo address[/img]
Example:
here is where my photo is located: http://home.earthlink.net/~old-iron/site...tbullets003.jpg
Stick in the img's but no spaces as I have put in:
[img] http://home.earthlink.net/~old-iron/site...tbullets003.jpg [/img]
And here is what you get without the spaces:
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SingleShot
.224 member
Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 22
Loc: Springfield, Virginia, USA
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I will get my pictures on a site from which I can post them.
Single Shot
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FATBOY404
.400 member
Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
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Quote:
Quote:
If I knew how to get a picture into this box, I could post a picture of the rounds and bullets I use.
Single shot.
Easy as pie:
photo needs to be on a web site or a photo hosting site such as photobucket
Then put the photo address between [img] and [/img]
Like this:
[img]insert the link to the server the photos is on with the photo address[/img]
Example:
here is where my photo is located: http://home.earthlink.net/~old-iron/site...tbullets003.jpg
Stick in the img's but no spaces as I have put in:
[img] http://home.earthlink.net/~old-iron/site...tbullets003.jpg [/img]
And here is what you get without the spaces:
Thats a good looking bullet.
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"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"
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Tatume
.400 member
Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
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Quote:
The barrel is a straight taper with New England Custon ghost ring sight.
Please tell us more about this sight. I can't find it on http://newenglandcustomgun.com/
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Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member
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