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9.3x57
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Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy.
      #190711 - 26/09/11 12:07 AM

Another bear. This time my son's taken yesterday. Quite a day, hard pulls, steep canyons, 4 bear caught, 2 treed, one a ground-fighter and this one a culvert bear, holed up in the same culvert twice after a long first race and an escape and big loop back to the same culvert.

Shot in the back of the neck as it left the second time. Range 2 feet. Rifle Marlin 1895, .45-70. Load Remington 300 grain JHP at 2125 fps. Some might not like this performance as it represents spectacularly "shallow" penetration, but that is precisely what we want from a hound gun. High energy, heavy-ish bullet, shallow penetration. This bullet will break any bone on any Black Bear here to 300 pounds {a 300-pounder is a really true rarity}.

If more and more grizzly crowd into our area, maybe we will have to rethink this just for self protection, but for now, we really like this combination. It grants 60 more grains of bullet weight over the King .444 {the Standard} and still keeps bullets inside the bear. No question the exit particles would be extremely hazardous to any dog that might get hit, but far better than getting struck with a heavy exiting bullet. We work HARD at keeping dogs away, but on ground fights the swirling melee is impossible to manage at times and "ballistic refinement" is a very good idea. Hence the popularity of .444 Marlins.

Exit Wound of shards;



Now, the Entry complex of wounds. Bullet entered from the top as the bear busted out of the hole.

Shot from this position sitting on the culvert in the "jungle" thicket;



Neck vertebrae in a section about 5 inches long were absolutely pureed, minced to slurry constitution. Shards left here and there, with the main bullet, beautifully expanded, found just under the hide next to the exit hole which no doubt was formed by the "shotgun-type" blast of particles as we witness and have documented in our bullet tests. Such a "pattern" is formed by both bullet particles and tissue and bone particles that are energized by the impact and sent flying thru the meat, etc.



Recovered;



Bear piled up and didn't even kick.

No pics of the shot as I was covering the side from an angle with my little "PDW" which as it turns out was not needed at all.



Some further of the day;

95 in the sun, cold in the shade. Lots of tough climbs;





Riggin';



How good dogs get hurt;





Couple cut up but...Happy!



Worrying the carcass. The big hound going crazy is a wonder at bear fighting. Just an awesome dog!



Bear went about 170 lbs.



The Rug;



Long hauls;



Hot, sweaty, cut up, bruised, strained and bloody...and happy as larks!



Last week's bear and 9.3x62 bullet performance;

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=190403&an=0&page=0#Post190403

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....&PHPSESSID=

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?

Edited by 9.3x57 (26/09/11 02:28 AM)


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gryphon
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #190717 - 26/09/11 04:30 AM

Great hunting mate,I would have loved a day out like that also.

--------------------
Get off the chair away from the desk and get out in the bush and enjoy life.


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DarylS
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: gryphon]
      #190722 - 26/09/11 05:51 AM



The face of an adult bear, but so small - interesting.

Here, a 160 to 170 pound bear would be a 3 year old cub.

Rod you weren't over-exaggerating when you said the bears ran small in your area.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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DarylS
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: DarylS]
      #190723 - 26/09/11 05:55 AM

I'd about bet a sized down 200gr. .375" Sierra FN would make a better dog-chased black-bear bullet for the 9.3! Drive it as fast as it can go - probably 2,650fps from the short barreled 9.3x62. Enough weight to 'tell' and not enough to break anything out the hide on the off side. Just a thought - your testing media might predict results.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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500Nitro
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Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: DarylS]
      #190725 - 26/09/11 06:01 AM


Thanks for posting. Great description and Photos.

Really interesting.

.


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FATBOY404
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #190729 - 26/09/11 06:44 AM

Another good hunt 9.3.

Like the photo's. You boy's must be fit hunting in that country !.

That 300 grainer did a job on the bear for sure.

Thanks for sharing.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"


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Ben
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: FATBOY404]
      #190732 - 26/09/11 06:59 AM

Hey, well-done! Good company and a great day! Nothing better.

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500Nitro
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: Ben]
      #190734 - 26/09/11 07:03 AM


I notice you are carry meat out.

Is that for you to eat or the dogs ?

If you, what does it taste like and how do you cook it ?

.


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DarylS
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #190738 - 26/09/11 08:19 AM

In my oppinion - it tastes like bear. It's quite good - usually. I cut off all the fat before cooking and use bacon or pork fat if needed for moisture while roasting (poked into the meat) - tasty, actually. It's closer to beef than anything else, especially when ground and BQ'D. Kids & most adults can't tell the difference between ground beef or ground bear.

Grizzly is close to black bear and beef as well - quite good eating (when I was younger). Now, I prefer beef.

Tracy and I stopped eating bear many years ago. I don't even like Moose any more - I'm spoiled, I guess. I prefer fat whitetail deer 1st and elk 2nd. There is no third now-a-days.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: DarylS]
      #190741 - 26/09/11 09:48 AM

500;

Yes, we eat it and love it.

Daryl's right, tastes like beef, like marbled, aged beef. We eat steaks, chops, roasts, don't grind much but some folks like sausage. I prefer not to "waste" it on sausage.

I've had many people over the house who have never eaten bear, didn't let them know what they were eating and when asked, thought it was beef.

Also, falls apart on the fork. Beyond tender.

One "must" is getting it cold fast. Much of our bear seasons takes place during hot weather. And they are often killed where it takes a while to get them home. Gotta get them cold fast.

We are not required by law to save the meat on bear. Elk, deer, antelope, etc must be saved and used. Bear, cougar, wolf, no.

But lots eat bear and lion. Lion is very good as well. Tastes much like pork.

I like it all.

FB: We keep in shape all year long for the stuff we like so much to do. Nothing's done on the flat around here, and if we want to keep doing this stuff I admit we have to work at it. Way I look at it, I keep in shape for Fall bear season by hiking the canyons bait shooting in the summer and keep in shape for that by chasing hounds in the spring and keep in shape for that by skiing in winter and keep in shape for that by trapping and keep in shape for that by elk and deer hunting and that brings me back to Fall bear season.....

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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500Nitro
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #190742 - 26/09/11 10:02 AM

Awesome.

I do like trying new meats / food, only a few things have made me chunder - like Roast fruit bat !!!.


Edit - and turtle cooked on a fire that wasn't properly cooked !!! LOL

.


Edited by 500Nitro (26/09/11 10:06 AM)


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gallatin
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Reged: 30/05/07
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #190760 - 26/09/11 02:50 PM

I'd have to add boiled Chittlins to that list, fried i manage to keep down.

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500Nitro
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: gallatin]
      #190762 - 26/09/11 02:57 PM

Quote:

I'd have to add boiled Chittlins to that list, fried i manage to keep down.





Having just looked up what they are, I totally agree with you.

Hopefully Aborigines don't learn about them otherwise they will get served up as well as the other 2 above.


Anyway, back to the topic at hand, bear and lion sound much better.

.


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9.3x57
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: 500Nitro]
      #190804 - 26/09/11 11:16 PM

Daryl, yes, bear here are small. The one my son shot here is a good slightly-above average sized boar. I really do not know what is the over-riding factor causing it; genetics, terrain, feed, age structure {possibly altered by hard hunting pressure} or all of the above.

What I do know is that if they decide to run as many do, they can go for many many miles, outrun the best of dogs and at the end of the day live for another. They are quite amazing animals.

I like bear as a game animal, tho they are serious depredators of deer and elk. But they can also be managed. Social values are changing here, tho, as the rage people feel about wolf introduction is trickling down to bear, and I suspect many more bear will be shot as more and more people refuse to let them go when they meet up with them during deer and elk seasons. "Kill all predators" is a growing attitude and I cannot say I blame people much for it.

Getting ready to go down into one of Saturday's holes.

Bear treed at the bottom.......naturally...

We let this one go. No sooner had we leashed up the dogs and started the climb back up than it scooted out of that tree and took off.





--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: 9.3x57]
      #190808 - 27/09/11 12:54 AM

When I was a 17 year old kid in an Ontario Junior Forest Rangers program, we, as a camp of 24 17year olds, chased a sow Black Bear in Northern Ontario at an indicated speed of 35 mph on the bus's speedo. She mantained her lead, about 25 feet ahead of the bumper for just over a mile - she never slowed below that speed, just swung her head side to side looking back at the bus as she ran down the middle of the paved road, then I suspect, tiring of the chase, swerved off the road, running through some small shin-tangle bush, then an aspen plantation, breaking off the young 6 to 7 foot aspen trees as she ran - again, semingly not slowing down. As the bus slowed down, the windows all down, our heads sticking out, we listened to the breaking of aspen trees for quite a stretch - probably heard her for a good 1/4 mile as she ran through that grove. I'll remember that for a long time coming - been a long time already.

They are amazing animals for sure.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re:Superb Rem 300 JHP; Recovered Weight [Re: DarylS]
      #190859 - 27/09/11 11:36 PM

The recovered Remington 300 weighed 161 grains {not counting unattached fragments.

This means it retained 54% of original weight.

For a bullet that stayed inside of a shot from 2 feet and expanded to do the damage it did, that is rather impressive to me.

The .45-70 is no .450 Nitro, but .450 Express?

Yes.

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re:Superb Rem 300 JHP; Recovered Weight [Re: 9.3x57]
      #190869 - 28/09/11 03:14 AM

The .450 BP Express used several loads, one of which was a 270gr. copper tube nosed bullet at 1,900fps, I believe. A Ruger or Browning lever gun easily exceeds those ballistics and so will a Trapdoor Springfield even though it has a lower pressure ceiling. Current factory load of 300gr. at 1,850fps is virtually identical to the 'factory' 300gr. BP loading for the .450BPE.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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9.3x57
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Re:Superb Rem 300 JHP; Recovered Weight [Re: DarylS]
      #190879 - 28/09/11 06:37 AM

Right on, Daryl.

I've seen various sources cite an old .50-110 Win load of 300 grain bullet at 2200 fps as usable in the Win 1886. This was the load "standard" we were looking to achieve, and we got pretty close with a bullet of higher sectional density.

That old .50-cal Win load must have been a bomb, a real light switch on broadside-shot elk and deer!

--------------------
What are the Rosary, the Cross or the Crucifix other than tools to help maintain the fortress of our faith in Jesus Christ, the Son of God?


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DarylS
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Re:Superb Rem 300 JHP; Recovered Weight [Re: 9.3x57]
      #190899 - 28/09/11 10:48 AM

That .50-110 load was the high velocity smokeless load.

Seems to me, there was also a 350 and 450gr. load as well, although I don't know how they would have shot in the extremely slow round ball twist (56") Winchester put in their .50 cal. M86's.

The slow twist and resulting lack of good accuracy probably kept them from becoming more popular than they should have been.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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ovny
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Re:Superb Rem 300 JHP; Recovered Weight [Re: DarylS]
      #194261 - 20/11/11 10:38 PM

I would try my 338 Winchester Magnum and my 375 H & H Magnum with this type bears to see if your bullets are effective. In the 338 used a 250 grain bullet and I think in 375 H & H a weight of 300 grains. In Spain, the bears are in serious danger of extinction and are highly protected animals by law, but we are relatively close to Romania to hunt bears and wolves, however minimal budgets under the alarming crisis in Spain. But dreaming is free hehe.

Oscar.

--------------------
I am Spanish


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DarylS
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Re:Superb Rem 300 JHP; Recovered Weight [Re: ovny]
      #194309 - 21/11/11 06:38 AM

Good to hear from you Oscar. Yes - we hear 'things' are very sad in Europe. Black bears are easily killed & what Rod is after is a 'light switch' effect. Instant kill from a body hit. This is a tall order as enough bullet weight is needed to get inside, but not so much as to cause lessened expansion. He needs massive tissue damage.

The 250gr. .338 and 300gr. .375 are really good big game bullets designed for slower expasion and deeper penetration. This is quite the reverse of what he needs or wants.

Black bears of the normal size in his are, are quite small boned and easily penetrated. They have lots of fat and muscle, so some penetration is needed, but they easily secume to nerve and tissue shock.

In the .338 mag., a soft 150gr. or 160gr. flatnose might be better and in the .375 Mag, a 200gr. FN Sierra flat nose might better fit his special needs. The higher the speed, the more variable the bullet's response.

If the speed is too high, there won't be enough penetration due to too-rapid expansion and bullet blowup and if too low, the dogs are in danger of an exiting bullet striking one of them.

The large bore, light weight rapidly expanding bullet seems to fit the needs of his particular need & game size, rather well. If those Idaho bears were like the bears back East in Ontario or the Northern States where 450 to 500 pound black bears are fairly plentiful and even much heavier ones are shot each year, his bullet of choice would have to be both heavier and capable of deeper penetration.

The quite excellent 350gr. Hornady or 405gr. Remington for the 1895 Marlin and the 265gr. or 300gr. Hornady for the .444 Marlin just might be more suited for the much larger bears, rather than the lightweights they currently find the best.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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ovny
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Re:Superb Rem 300 JHP; Recovered Weight [Re: DarylS]
      #194312 - 21/11/11 06:56 AM

Hi Daryl:

Please glad to hear from me. Thank God I'm a civil servant and currently keep my job (in Greece have fired even government officials), but my salary has been reduced by more than 5%, which makes it harder to make ends months as we say in Spain.

Well thank you for your answer, as I have also a 300 Weatherby and I like to learn I wonder what is the proper bullet for this cartridge very fast.

In short, no more annoying, but do not forget, as the saying goes, "God squeezes, but does not drown"

Regards,

Oscars.

--------------------
I am Spanish


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AdamTayler
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: DarylS]
      #194495 - 22/11/11 02:00 PM

Quote:

In my oppinion - it tastes like bear. Tracy and I stopped eating bear many years ago. I don't even like Moose any more - I'm spoiled, I guess. I prefer fat whitetail deer 1st and elk 2nd. There is no third now-a-days.




The first bear roast I cooked was while my wife was pregnant with our first child. She had a really hard time keeping things down, and once she smelt it, it was kicked out of the house never to return again. No big deal, I don't hunt bears anymore.

No more moose Daryl? Say it isn't so!

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.


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DarylS
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: AdamTayler]
      #194599 - 23/11/11 04:23 AM

Yeah - it's so. Shot one for my buddy a couple years ago, but don't relish it as I used to. My moose stew was tremendous eating & I might eat it again some time. I used to say you couldn't make a decent stew or spagetti without moose meat. Elk does OK, but moose was the best.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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Sville
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Re: Another Bear & Bullet; Superb Rem 300 JHP; Pic Heavy. [Re: DarylS]
      #194611 - 23/11/11 07:03 AM

Quote:

I used to say you couldn't make a decent stew or spagetti without moose meat. Elk does OK, but moose was the best.



I agree on that, for a stew moose is the best.
Fantastic documentary to follow this bear hunt of yours!!! /Staffan


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