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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Ash
.400 member


Reged: 10/05/11
Posts: 1653
Loc: Australia
Zastava .458 Win Mag
      #189447 - 08/09/11 09:36 PM

As mentioned in another post.

Using Winchester 510gr factory loads (listed as 2050fps) i had a case split about 1/4" up from the belt, its about 1/4" long as well. Ive only put 7 rounds through it so far, this is the first to have this happen. The rifles a Zastava M70 that i just picked up new. Loose chamber? Or just a random occurance of brass failure? Or is Winchester brass not terribly good?

Sorry, am an amatuer to this stuff. This rifles the first larger caliber I've owned.
Any advice on shooting technique for larger stuff? (elbows up, or anything?)



Cheers,
Troy

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: Ash]
      #189449 - 08/09/11 09:39 PM

How old is the ammo ?

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Ben
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Reged: 22/08/08
Posts: 1917
Loc: Northern Territory, Australia
Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: tophet1]
      #189451 - 08/09/11 10:03 PM

Welcome to the wonderful world of largish calibres! It's fun. I'll be watching with interest to see what others have to say about the case split. As for shooting advice, avoid bench rests; also, feet apart and braced for a shove, leaning a little into it.

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Ash
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Reged: 10/05/11
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Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: Ben]
      #189453 - 08/09/11 11:10 PM

No idea about age of ammo, is there somewhere on the box to find out? Some of the shells do have slight discoloration (very small brown patches), but I've noticed this on other centerfire Winchester rounds I get. (.243, mainly).
I've put 7 rounds through it; didn't notice the split one until after I got home. It goes up and down the case, not across it for the record.

Ben - so far I'm enjoying the step up! Though Mr Right Shoulder isn't so much. I'll be the wimp who blames "that hard factory rubber pad" though

Cheers
Troy

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Oldbrit
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Reged: 04/04/10
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Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: Ash]
      #189472 - 09/09/11 04:00 AM

I bought some Kynamco brass for my 375 X 2.5", one of the cases split on the first loading and none have split since. So far you've got a sample of one, you can't draw many conclusions from that.

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Ben
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Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: Oldbrit]
      #189489 - 09/09/11 07:20 AM

A lot of brand new brass has a little discolouration. It seems to be normal and fine.

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mauserand9mm
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Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: Ben]
      #189499 - 09/09/11 09:06 AM

Winchester is my preferred brand (I've been using it for 20 years myself) and I've never had any problems with it, but I guess you could run into "one-off" issues - it could happen with any brand really. I think "bad batches" are a rarity these days from the larger reputable companies, but the odd "off-spec" may still slip through.

I get extremely good life out of my Win 458 brass - 20+ loads with some going over 30 loads. The neck usually ends up splitting. I would be happy with getting at least 10 loads out of them - anything above that is a bonus.

I suggest you speak with Winchester-Olin and see what they say - can't hurt. Can you see what the inside of the case at the crack looks like? It might be useful to section the case to see if the brass is thinner in the area around the crack but don't do this until after speaking with Winchester-Olin.

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
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Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: Ash]
      #189661 - 11/09/11 01:10 PM

Ash as others have said it sounds like a one off. The vertical split-as I call those that run lenght ways- is normaly due to brittle brass or faulty in that it is thinner there then it should be. As it is new it may well of not been annealed at the factory properly.

If you have this happen with any more from that batch take the lot back to where you bought it and have them send it to Winchester. I would be looking for a refund if that was the case.

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grantc
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Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: Rule303]
      #215479 - 25/08/12 05:05 PM

did you end up finding anything out ash i have just got one myself but i loaded my own loads and havent had an issue.i took the rifle straight to my gunsmith as i was buying ammo and stuff from him and he asked if he could pull the rifle apart to check something i was a bit suprised to find there was no front recoil lug so he put one in straight away that was the only problem i can find with the zastava

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Ash
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Loc: Australia
Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: grantc]
      #215904 - 01/09/12 08:45 PM

I never checked anything when i got the gun haha. The chamber was fine was just a bad case, the rest of the 2 boxes were fine. Guess i was just over nervous about having a case split (first time for me and was in a new gun so i was worried cause i knew nothing about the possible issues).
S'pose i should get a front lug put on? Its had about 60-70 rounds through it now, no issues yet.
Still havent tried to bag anything with it though.

The only other thing ive had a problem with was ejection, the cases tended to not want to come out at first, but now they eject fine (didnt change anything).

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eagle27
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Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: Ash]
      #215926 - 02/09/12 07:50 AM

Some interesting observations here and I would like to add my own. I too have noticed that often on new brass cases purchased today there is some mottling effect already showing up, something you would not normally seen unless on very old cases or cartridges. I think this is because the cases we purchase nowadays are usually bulk packaged with cases lumped together touching each other. I usually clean my cases using Brass Brite, a wipe on wipe off liquid which works instantly even on the dullest case and gives a nice polish. If I keep these cases in a plastic partitioned ammo box they stay shiny all over but if I place them together in a bag they do show slight mottling after relatively short period of time just like new bulk buy brass seems to.

I have a 20+ year old packet of new RWS 404 brass with cases partition in light moulded plastic and these have retained their perfect finish even after all this time. Partition new brass is also the reason we never usually saw defective cases as I suspect they were probably hand packaged not like today's brass, machine poured and weighed into a plastic bag or a box. Every lot I have purchased in the last few years has had at a few cases with manufacturing defects making them unusable, and not just dented mouths which can be ironed out in the resizing die. Four dud cases in my latest purchase of 50 25-06 Winchester brass cases.

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aromakr
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Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: eagle27]
      #216041 - 04/09/12 05:55 AM

I too prefer Win/Western brass and have never had a problem with discolored brass in either new cases or factory loaded ammo, I wonder if it has something to do with how it is packaged and shipped from the US to you folks down under? its more than likley is shipped by boat, just a guess on my part.
Bob

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DarylS
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Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: aromakr]
      #216047 - 04/09/12 07:24 AM

I've never had any problems with WW, RP or Fed short belted brass.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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albertan
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Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: DarylS]
      #216137 - 05/09/12 04:00 PM

I suspect poor annealing of that case. I don't know if Winchester double anneals a straight walled case like a .458. On cases with shoulders they do.

If you are going to reload a .458 Winchester, I would recommend that you anneal every time you size the brass. Lack of neck tension will cause you a lot of grief. I strongly suspect that brittle case necks (and subsequent poor neck tension)in this calibre were the cause of many of this cartridges (overblown) problems.

I load this calibre. When .458 brass was scarce in Canada I found a couple of tricks that helped extend the life of the brass and cartridge performance.

I do not expand the case at the mouth to allow for easier seating. I use a .50 calibre VLD inside neck chamfering tool to allow for problem free bullet seating. Seven twists of the wrist works. A dozen different bullet styles ( at least) played with , and no problems, AKA crushed cases.

I anneal every time. This ensures proper neck tension. The Hornady kit works. There are other ways of doing this.

I use a Lee factory crimp die. I seat and crimp in 2 passes. But I have never had a problem. Many times, my loads are varmit rifle accurate. I also use 2 seaters. One for the solid, and one for the soft.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Zastava .458 Win Mag [Re: albertan]
      #216185 - 06/09/12 12:21 AM

In the straight cases, I also seat and crimp in two steps - mostly, with the Lee crimp dies.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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