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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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Tentman
.300 member


Reged: 13/06/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Southland, New Zealand
Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros
      #187180 - 03/08/11 12:44 PM

Hello Guys

I'm looking for a scope to go on a custom Mauser Kurz 250-3000 that will be my "go-to" mountain rifle, so I want light and compact. Currenly I'm leaning towards a straight 4x rather than a varipower. I do want it to have an objective bell for no other reason than "it looks right to me".

Down here at our end on NZ I can try most Leupold models. However apart from Kahles no local retailers stock the Euro's, and certainly no 4x models.

One feature of Leaupolds generally is the degree of freedom of the eyebox. I don't know if this is the right term but to me it means that you have some flexibility as to where you place your eye within the eye relief (of which I don't need much for a 250-3000). This feature is pretty usefull for our NZ style of hunting where many opportunities have to be taken offhand, usually at a difficult up or downhill angle.

Can anyone tell me if the current range of euro scopes (S & B, Swaro, Zeiss or other top end scopes) are different in respect to the eyebox from Leupold's ?

Thanks - Foster

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand

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FATBOY404
.400 member


Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: Tentman]
      #187185 - 03/08/11 04:04 PM

Hi Tentman.

I have a couple of Khales scopes,a couple of Leupold scopes and a Conquest scope.

I find them all good for quick shots or I would sell them.

I find the cheaper American scopes the worst for a tight "eye box" ie,older Weavers and Bushnells and so on.
They are like looking down a piece of 1" water pipe 3 feet long.


I do really like the VX-3 2.5-8 as it is compact,good eye relief and is one of the lightest scopes on the market.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

Edited by FATBOY404 (03/08/11 04:11 PM)

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CHAPUISARMES
.416 member


Reged: 16/01/08
Posts: 2908
Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: FATBOY404]
      #187194 - 03/08/11 06:28 PM

Hi Tentman,

I have one Leupold scope but Three S&B scopes which I believe are the German version of the Rolls Royce but that's just my opinion. I have the Zenith model and this is the link to there site.: http://www.schmidtbender.com/

Good Luck,

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

.

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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #187197 - 03/08/11 07:29 PM

Everything with optics is a compromise.

Eye relief is determined by the field-of-view, and by the focal lengths of the objective lens and eyepiece lens. Generally, the higher the magnification and the larger the field-of-view, the shorter the eye relief.

http://www.opticstalk.com/riflescope-school_topic5027.html

I have a Zeiss Conquest 4x32 (no longer available) on my lightweight 9.3x62 and IMHO it is a great compromise with excellent clarity, good weight and useable/hunt'able' eye relief. The only problem is aesthetic in that the ocular houseing is larger than the objective houseing. If you get the chance try to look through one.

I have a Kahles 3.5-10x50 and that is en excellent lightweight scope with great clarity in fadeing light, especially when the magnification is turned down.

I firmly believe you get what you pay for with optics and the more you spend, the less you will have to compromise.

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Dr_Deer
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Reged: 23/02/09
Posts: 212
Loc: Australia
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: tophet1]
      #187242 - 04/08/11 09:27 AM

Are you sure the eyebox you are referring to isn't a function of exit pupil diameter? I've found VX2 Leup's to be painful in this regard but put it down to having target shooting magnification ranges such as 6-18x

Unfortunately I think you are pushing the proverbial trying to source a new European made 4x32 scope. Many manufacturers have dropped it from the line up and now start at 6x42, if still manufacturing any fixed powers. Karl Kaps (German) and Meopta (Czech) are the only Euro's that come to mind still making fixed 4x.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: Dr_Deer]
      #187243 - 04/08/11 09:36 AM



Do Trijicon make one ?

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blacks
.275 member


Reged: 17/03/11
Posts: 83
Loc: South-East South Australia
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: 500Nitro]
      #187247 - 04/08/11 11:48 AM

I agree regarding the Leupolds - in fact, that's one of the things I really like about them, along with being compact and light. However, I think for a mountain rifle you'll be seriouly handicapping yourself with a fixed 4 power. If you must go fixed, I'd go at least a 6x, or better still a variable.

blacks

--------------------
You won't shoot anything at home on the couch...

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Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4917
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: Tentman]
      #187289 - 04/08/11 10:17 PM

G'day tentman, it sounds to me like you are talking about eye relief and parra lax.

The Leupolds are trim and light and some, mainly lower magnifications( 2.8-8), have good eye relief. Eye relief is the distance behind the scope your eye has to be to belooking throught the scope and see the whole picture not as if looking down a pipe. Eye relief can be from say, just picking figures to demonstrate- 90mm to 95 mm from the ocular lense or 90mm to 105mm.

The Euro scopes generaly give you better clarity, can use them longer as the light dims at dusk etc, but hve bigger ocular lenses, they also have fast fiocus for the eye piece where as Leupy's it is a case of set it and lock it in.

Cheers

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Tentman
.300 member


Reged: 13/06/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Southland, New Zealand
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: blacks]
      #187365 - 05/08/11 02:10 PM

Quote:

However, I think for a mountain rifle you'll be seriouly handicapping yourself with a fixed 4 power. If you must go fixed, I'd go at least a 6x, or better still a variable.

blacks



Hee Hee - have you hunted in NZ's South Is, I've been there for over 35 years and I can tell you that I have seen many more animals lost while nerds fiddled with their varipowers than I've missed due to a 4x scope.

What you need to remember is that in NZ you usually stalk up through the bush to the tops, consequently a scope has to handle from 15 yards (have you ever tried to shoot something as large as a Red deer at 15 yards with a 6x scope - all you'll see is hair)to whatever is your max range. Being that its a 250-3000 I'm scoping, and by personal ethics, I don't bother shooting at animals over 300 yards, I've shot plenty of deer and chamois around this distance with a 4x and not too many have complained by disappearing unexpectedly !

A key feature of a rifle for NZ(IMO)is the ability to throw it to the shoulder for a shot in way less time than it takes to blink. To do this you need a non critical eyebox on a low powered scope and a well balanced and set-up rifle.

Thanks for your input folks.

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand

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Con
.333 member


Reged: 24/05/04
Posts: 261
Loc: Victoria
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: Tentman]
      #187477 - 06/08/11 11:56 PM

Tentman,
I like your style ... my favourite 358Win now wears an old M8 6x36 Leupold but I've had the reticle swapped to a No1 German for bush use. Brilliant!!! The post stands proud in the bush and I can still shoot to 200+yards with ease using the 'point' on top of the post. Try a Leupold 6x36, mount it low as possible and you'll find it may just become your favourite! The latest FXII 4x is also great and shorter than the older M8 4x scopes.

Where the Leupold's have failed me is in the high powered variable VXIII 6.5-20x40mm ... almost unusable for me as a slight eye movement blacks the scope out. Just a horrible scope for me!
Cheers...
Con

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VonGruff
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Reged: 08/02/09
Posts: 1119
Loc: South Otago, New Zealand.
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: Con]
      #187502 - 07/08/11 07:53 AM

Personally I like the Leupold 2 -7 for its compactness. Left on 2x it is just the thing for up close. Checking the scope power when rifle is readied for the hunt is as automatic as is loading ammo and checking safety.

Von Gruff.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: VonGruff]
      #187506 - 07/08/11 09:59 AM

Tentman nailed it. It's "non critical" eye relief that counts.

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Con
.333 member


Reged: 24/05/04
Posts: 261
Loc: Victoria
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: kamilaroi]
      #187507 - 07/08/11 10:04 AM

One thing to be said in Leupold's favour, the slim eyepiece allows much lower mounting for 'instinctive' use. The lockable eyepiece focus is streets ahead of the Euro system which can be moved by accident. The Euro optics are generally better, the Leupold ergonomics are generally better. It makes it a tough call to decide, but like most things its about the compromises your willing to make.
Cheers...
Con

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Cinghiale
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Reged: 15/04/08
Posts: 406
Loc: Northern Territory
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: Con]
      #187521 - 07/08/11 02:41 PM

I like the little loopy's as they are slim and fit me well. A loopy 2.5-8 would do everything you want.

I have a 3.5-10 for my Mtn rifle which I'm piecing togeether at the moment. I understand you want something for reflex shooting in the monkey scrub and the little loopy may be just the ticket.

Regards,

MOG

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Rule303
.416 member


Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 4917
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: VonGruff]
      #187527 - 07/08/11 04:16 PM

Quote:

Personally I like the Leupold 2 -7 for its compactness. Left on 2x it is just the thing for up close. Checking the scope power when rifle is readied for the hunt is as automatic as is loading ammo and checking safety.

Von Gruff.



+1 on checking scope and leaving on lowest power unless time and circumstance allow for it to be wond up.

Check out the Leupy VX3 2.5-8X36?, small, light and the Zeiss Duralyte in 2.5-8X42. Cost more but awesome optics and good eye relief. Also the Trijacon 1.5-4X24 with picket post. Good clear optics, tough as, plenty of eye relief and the no battery illumination of the triangle on top of the post is brilliant.

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blacks
.275 member


Reged: 17/03/11
Posts: 83
Loc: South-East South Australia
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: Tentman]
      #187574 - 08/08/11 06:15 PM

Quote:

Quote:

However, I think for a mountain rifle you'll be seriouly handicapping yourself with a fixed 4 power. If you must go fixed, I'd go at least a 6x, or better still a variable.

blacks



Hee Hee - have you hunted in NZ's South Is, I've been there for over 35 years and I can tell you that I have seen many more animals lost while nerds fiddled with their varipowers than I've missed due to a 4x scope.

What you need to remember is that in NZ you usually stalk up through the bush to the tops, consequently a scope has to handle from 15 yards (have you ever tried to shoot something as large as a Red deer at 15 yards with a 6x scope - all you'll see is hair)to whatever is your max range. Being that its a 250-3000 I'm scoping, and by personal ethics, I don't bother shooting at animals over 300 yards, I've shot plenty of deer and chamois around this distance with a 4x and not too many have complained by disappearing unexpectedly !

A key feature of a rifle for NZ(IMO)is the ability to throw it to the shoulder for a shot in way less time than it takes to blink. To do this you need a non critical eyebox on a low powered scope and a well balanced and set-up rifle.

Thanks for your input folks.



Yes I have, and will be again in May. I agree with your points, and am a fixed-power fan myself, however one can easily carry a variable on the lowest power in the scrub and have ample time to wind it up should a long, open shot arise, which they often do over there. This is hardly 'fiddly' or 'nerdy'. I use a 2.5-10 on my go-to .30/06 and it's taken two tahr thus far, at 197 and 410 yards. And down at 3 power it's taken pigs, sambar and other game in the real thick stuff.

I reckon a VX-3 2.5-8x36 is what I'd put on your rifle but it's a personal thing.

Cheers and best of luck with your new rig.

blacks

--------------------
You won't shoot anything at home on the couch...

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Tentman
.300 member


Reged: 13/06/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Southland, New Zealand
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: blacks]
      #187676 - 09/08/11 08:01 PM

Thanks blacks - hope you enjoy your hunt, there's nothing I like better than folks getting out into our mountains, and so much the better if they are hunters.

I've saved over $400 on the scope, had a thorough look at several $500 ++ scopes and decided that I like a Meopta 4x32 that I already have best, its a trifle bigger than I'd prefer but it'll mount with a new set of $100 rings.

Cheers

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand

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blacks
.275 member


Reged: 17/03/11
Posts: 83
Loc: South-East South Australia
Re: Scope "Eyebox" - Leup's vrs Euros [Re: Tentman]
      #187678 - 09/08/11 08:14 PM

Thanks mate. Meopta have very good optics for the dough and their little 4x is very popular.

We are flying with James Scott into the Whataroa for seven days - can't wait to get back there but have a lot of fitness work to do first!!

blacks

--------------------
You won't shoot anything at home on the couch...

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