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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

66 cal Christian Springs rifle
#186744 - 28/07/11 10:28 PM

Edited by CptCurl (19/03/12 10:09 AM)

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26531
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: szihn]
#186775 - 29/07/11 02:12 AM

VERY nice, Steve - I love those early guns - looks and epecially the way they hold and point. The slightly robust build of the wrists and butt are very pleasing to me. Does it have a 38" bl.??

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: DarylS]
#186786 - 29/07/11 05:35 AM

Yes Daryl, It's 38" long. One of Ed Raly's best.

It's VERY accurate. I was delighted when I zeroed it in.

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: szihn]
#187216 - 03/08/11 11:55 PM

Steve, that is beautiful work. I especially like your graceful carving and your wood finish. Have you ever made an English style rifle, in either flint or percussion?

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: Carpetsahib]
#187261 - 04/08/11 05:18 PM

Oh yes Carpetsehib, I have done several english rifles, in both flint and percussion. I have a bit of a reputation for them in fact. I have several coming up soon in fact. From .54 to 8 bore

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26531
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: szihn]
#187304 - 05/08/11 01:37 AM

A 16 bore English Sporting rifle in cap-lock period was the epitomy, highest form of desgin/function and therefor close to the ultimate in a BP hunting rifle for North America. The ultimate, woudl of course, be an English Sporting rifle with 2 barrels of 16 to 14 bore.

If Steve would post a couple pics of his previous rifles?

The Christian Springs rifle above would of course, being a 16 bore as well, make a great hunting rifle for someone wanting that early era of the 18th century in a rifle that was built in the Americas. As I see it, the basic pattern is a cross between the shorter Jaeger and I think the slightly longer English Sporting rifle of that period. They are wonderful shooting rifles which point well indeed, much better than the later and small bored longrifles that became popular. The German heritage of the Christian Springs rifles is quite evident. Steve has captured the grace, beauti and function of that period's rifles exceptionally well.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: DarylS]
#187317 - 05/08/11 03:31 AM

Daryl is correct. The 66 cal (16 bore) English was the “high water mark” of hunting rifle development within the British empire in the era of 1860 to 1880. In fact, the acceptance of the breach loader is the only step forward which caused these kids of rifles to pass into obsolescence. There were equals in use from other countries, but the English stalking rifle was the epitome of for and function of the muzzle loading era.

There days, the 62 cal is more popular with America hunters then the 66. The reason for that is that the Brits hunting in India and Africa as their common ground and Americans usually hunt in their own country. In the USA big bears and bison are about the only 2 animals that you might worry about in the rare instance that they decide to fight after you pull a trigger. But those 2 animals are easily killed with a 62 cal. If you like 66, that’s fine. I build English guns up to and including 2 bore (slightly smaller than a golf ball)
Anyway, English stalking rifles are pure joy and they are as wonderful to hunt with today as they were in the 1860s.
Here are some pics
There first 4 are of a Rigby Style 66 cal.

Here is a Purdey stly 62 cal.

There nest 2 are of a Purdey style 8 bore

Edited by CptCurl (19/03/12 10:10 AM)

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: szihn]
#187318 - 05/08/11 03:37 AM

Another Purdey style 62

Here is a pic of a 4 bore I made in action.

Here are some of the 2 bore I made, but the gun was not finished when the pics were taken.

Edited by CptCurl (19/03/12 10:11 AM)

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: szihn]
#187341 - 05/08/11 11:02 AM

And here's me just getting some money together for my Double 4 bore & you show that guy shooting a 4 Bore!
Did he stay standing ??

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: Sarg]
#187353 - 05/08/11 12:55 PM

One time he did, and one time he ended up on his back-side.

However that rifle is a single and weighed only ("only) 17 pounds and 4 oz. A double will often weigh about 22. If you use about 350 to 400 grains of powder the recoil is not that bad.

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
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Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: szihn]
#187354 - 05/08/11 01:02 PM

Ok , I will hold you to that

I think 12 - 14 drams Max with RB will do !!

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26531
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: Sarg]
#187416 - 06/08/11 02:25 AM

Yikes - not for me. My little 14 bore kicks quite enough, thanks.
The figures from the recoil chart are 77 ft.pounds & 23 fps.
:

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by CptCurl (19/03/12 10:11 AM)

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: DarylS]
#187490 - 07/08/11 02:52 AM

Yes Daryl, but as you know, if the stock fits you correctly, the recoil is not painful.
My 62 Cal uses 140 gr of 3F and it's easy to shoot. It rocks me a bit, but with no pain at all.
It kills VERY well.

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DarylS
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Posts: 26531
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: szihn]
#187493 - 07/08/11 03:26 AM

The Early guns (as did the later period English style above) had nice wide butt plates - necessary for distributing recoil forces to a push, as mine does. I'm afraid the 8's and 4's have more 'push' than I'll ever fire or desire to fire.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: DarylS]
#187519 - 07/08/11 02:26 PM

I am bumbing this to the top because of an emergency;

My customer Carlin is the man who bought this rifle, but he's been informed that he has cancer. It's now got to be sold to help him pay medical bills.
Please pray for him
Here is his note he asked me to post.
____________________________________________________________
I found out this past Friday that my cancer has returned. I'm scheduled for
Another surgery along with some form of chemotherapy. Unfortunately, I need
to sell this flintlock to help pay the bills. Steve says the gun is worth
$3500.

Carlen
___________________________________________________________
If any of you men can buy this rifle from him I am sure he's be very appreciative.

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mehulkamdar
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: szihn]
#187564 - 08/08/11 09:24 AM

Absolutely exquisite rifle, Steve. Best wishes to Carlin. Had two friends successfully fight cancer recently and I hope he will do it as well.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: szihn]
#187610 - 09/08/11 12:28 AM

Steve, I REALLY LIKE the Purdey style rifle. I have a .62 Payton that is almost exactly like yours. I've been thinking that I would like one in .66. Perhaps next year, if gold remains up, I'll be able to swing it.

You know, the 2 bore you made is the most graceful one of its kind that I have ever seen.

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: Carpetsahib]
#187616 - 09/08/11 03:35 AM

Well Carpetsahib, if you want one in 16 bore, you know where to find me.
And thank you for your comment on the 2 bore. They are tricky to make them look nice. A rifle that big is hard to make graceful, but it CAN be done, if you pay attention to details.

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Carpetsahib
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Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: szihn]
#187645 - 09/08/11 10:59 AM

Steve,
I think that a Purdey style 16 bore would look good with a hard maple stock. I know that the traditional wood is French walnut, but there were historical rifles built with maple. What do you think?

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: Carpetsahib]
#187662 - 09/08/11 03:47 PM

There is an outstanding example of a Purdey 14 bore rifle in the Cody Museum that is stocked in a fantastic piece of quilted maple.

So YES they are authentic, just not common.

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: szihn]
#187705 - 10/08/11 06:41 AM

Quote:

Well Carpetsahib, if you want one in 16 bore, you know where to find me.
And thank you for your comment on the 2 bore. They are tricky to make them look nice. A rifle that big is hard to make graceful, but it CAN be done, if you pay attention to details.

A question regarding the use of a back-action lock on the 2 bore: is it possible to use a standard bar lock with this large barrel? I am thinking that the main spring protrusion into the barrel space precludes its use.

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: Carpetsahib]
#187714 - 10/08/11 11:14 AM

Yes, it's possible, but I'd have to make a recess in the barrel for the upper leg of the spring, and the wrist would have to step down a great deal so as not to be so big an average hand could not hold it. Hanging on to one of these is VERY important because they could really hurt you if they come out of your hands. If the hand can't close at least 75%, the gun will jump out no matter how hard you try to hold on.
I could also make a recessed breach plug, but that still presents a problem with a forward mounted spring. I have one designed for a 2 bore gun that I may make in the future which used a long stirrup to link the spring with the tumbler, so the lock plate is low enough to bring the spring under the curve of the barrel. However, no matter what is done, it's always a metal working project to make a lock to fit such a large barrel. There is no easy way.

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: szihn]
#187863 - 13/08/11 12:00 AM

Quote:

There is an outstanding example of a Purdey 14 bore rifle in the Cody Museum that is stocked in a fantastic piece of quilted maple.

So YES they are authentic, just not common.

Do you think its possible to find wood of like quality today?

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szihn
.400 member

Reged: 24/06/07
Posts: 2113
Loc: Wind River Valley, Wyoming

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: Carpetsahib]
#187865 - 13/08/11 12:04 AM

Yes it's possible, but it's going to be costly.
I believe I can get a blank, but I would expect to pay $800-$1200 for it.

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Carpetsahib
.333 member

Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC

Re: 66 cal Christian Springs rifle [Re: szihn]
#188137 - 19/08/11 12:34 AM

That looks like a nice piece of maple on the 2-bore. What species is it?

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