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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Rifles
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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
250-3000 18 year project.
      #185809 - 14/07/11 03:05 PM

Here finally is my .250-3000 Varmint/Spotlighting/Truck rifle.



I started handloading 20 years ago and my B-I-L asked me to develop a load for his .243W Churchill (Mauser '98) rifle. I did, but found the 22" barrel produced far too much muzzle blast (and at night) muzzle flash for my liking. Spotlighting at night is a common practise here in Australia to reduce vermin and feral animals that pose a threat to farmers crops and pasture.

I looked for a cartridge with a smaller powder capacity and a longer barrel. I played with a 6mm250 wildcat on a Mauser action but the 26" barrel was too thin, it was not bedded and I never got it to shoot satisfactorily. That barrel is now on AFRO408's excellent .243Myra.

250-3000 with Sierra 87 Spitzer next to a .243 with 100 Sierra SptBt.


I decided on the 250-3000. A 23 1/4" C/M #4 barrel was fitted to a 1952 R.Famage CRF '98 action. I have measured the twist numerous times and it comes in at 1 in 11" ??? The muzzle measures .700" with a recessed target crown. It was fitted to a sporterised ex-mil stock with the standard trigger. Despite taking a large number of animals it never chambered and extracted reliably and was a pain to use. I gave it to a mate getting into shooting, but he never used it and ten years later asked if I wanted it back. I had this size cartridge gap in my armoury so I happily took it back home.



I had fitted and bedded a Boyds thumbole stock and a Sako trigger fitted and set at 2 1/2 pounds. AFRO408 fixed the chambering and extraction problems with three hand files and a high speed polisher.

Load development was intersting. It hates 100 grain projectiles, shoots 87 grainers regularly into 1" at 100 yards and any 75 grainer into less than 1" at 100 yards. I have a large supply of 75 V-Max and 75 Sierra HP's. Scope is my old Leupold Vari X-III 3.5-10x40AO which may get sent away for a B&C reticle.

The impetus to get this finished was the success my son has had with his .243W on our recent outback Camel hunt and I can't stand by and let the young shine with these modern cartridges.

Edited by CptCurl (17/07/11 09:46 PM)

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CHAPUISARMES
.416 member


Reged: 16/01/08
Posts: 2908
Loc: DUBBO, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: tophet1]
      #185810 - 14/07/11 03:21 PM

Hi John,

A nice looking and practical outfit, those Boyd Thumbhole stocks are great for spotlighting, I fitted one to the Howa I have in .222 and performs nicely.

These designs are a big change from the African designs we both love.

Cheers Mate,

Jeff

.

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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #185812 - 14/07/11 03:59 PM

The stock is a bit 'nouveau' for me but works well. Good cheek weld and facial support. The hole is a bit big for my hand without a glove on. In the front channel there is plenty of room to put in a lead strip under the barrel, to add weight if desired.

I'm thinking of one for my .264WM when I get around to fitting the 26" Pac Nor super match grade C/M barrel. The extra weight up front will reduce muzzle lift and negate the need for a muzzle break. ( I like to watch my shots impact )

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AFRO408
.333 member


Reged: 21/01/09
Posts: 312
Loc: Arding NSW
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: tophet1]
      #185816 - 14/07/11 05:52 PM

So, it's still feeding well ?

--------------------
Flinch ? Wot flinch ? Gunsmithing is my PASSION.

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blacks
.275 member


Reged: 17/03/11
Posts: 83
Loc: South-East South Australia
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: AFRO408]
      #185817 - 14/07/11 06:09 PM

Very nice John, and a nice bit of history behind it too. My spotlight rig, a Ruger .222, now wears the same stock (in Jacaranda laminate) and it's great out of the truck.

Interesting what you say about the heavy pills. I load for my old man's M98 .303/25 which I'm guessing is a similar performer. It shoots like a demon, sub-moa with any 75-90gn pill, and we've stuck with the 90gn Sierra HP over 40gn 2209. BUT, it hates anything over and including 100gn pills. I'm guessing it has a similar twist...it's a Sako barrel actually.

Cheers

blacks

--------------------
You won't shoot anything at home on the couch...

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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: AFRO408]
      #185820 - 14/07/11 09:43 PM

Quote:

So, it's still feeding well ?



As smooth as the skin on a virgins breast. Mind you it's been awhile and not in this town ....

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: tophet1]
      #185834 - 15/07/11 02:10 AM

.250/300 is a wonderful round - ballistics well above what it's appearance would suggest. I've wanted one for years, but incredibly, never put one together.
Good as the standard case is, the AckImp case is that much better.

Another great round is the 6mm International, literally a necked down .250/3000. Another 'want' of mine and only some 50fps behind the much larger .243 in average ballistics in 22" bls.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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rigbymauser
.400 member


Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: DarylS]
      #185844 - 15/07/11 04:24 AM

Skippy!!..Watch out!!.

Looks good John. I have always had a weakness or Arthur Savage old cartridge.

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264
.375 member


Reged: 15/02/11
Posts: 616
Loc: NT Australia
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: tophet1]
      #185856 - 15/07/11 07:33 AM

Trophet1-heres my truck spotlight rifle. Rem 700 243, 26" MAB stainless fluted, boyds LRS stock. Has a zeiss 3-9x40 on it now. Its 27 years old , only just put the stock on it. Nice colour......................
Run 75 grain hornadys, and 85 barnes tsx. Mick


Edited by CptCurl (17/07/11 09:47 PM)

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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: 264]
      #185857 - 15/07/11 07:37 AM

Mick, what stock finish did you use ?

I hit mine with two coats of matt spray polyurethane and then two coats of gloss. Very garish I know, but then I'm not sneaking through the woods with it.

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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: tophet1]
      #186055 - 18/07/11 09:06 PM

Well I've just completed a rudimentary penetration/expansion test with the Sierra 75 HP, 75 V-Max and 87 Sierra Spt.

Test medium was a tightly bound pile of newspaper thoroughly soaked in water.

As expected the 87 Sierra penetrated the most with the least expansion and narrowest hole through the pulb.

The 75 Sierra HP made the largest cavity the earliest.
Not too dissimilar was the 75 V-Max which showed signs of immediate expansion upon impact.
Both 75's penetrated an identical distance into the medium and not too far from where the 87 stopped. The only remnants recovered was the mushroomed intact base of the 87 Sierra with a 'pad' of lead still attached. This showed the medium was generating a lot of friction.

The 75 V-Max and 87 Sierra have a similar BC of 0.290 and 0.291 respectively. As the V-Max shooters the most consistantly in my rifle it will get the most use. If Goats, Pigs and head shooting camels are on the menu then the 87.

I was hoping the 100 weight would shoot well in this rifle but that is not to be.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: tophet1]
      #186060 - 18/07/11 11:15 PM

Hope the Vmax isn't too soft - they are usually varmint bullets designed for light game. At around 3000 to 3100, the 87gr. should be OK. I ran them 3600fps from my 26" AckImp .257Roberts and they blew up on contact with coyotes right to 200/250yards - huge gaping holes in the hides. No tracking,though.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tophet1
.400 member


Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: DarylS]
      #186082 - 19/07/11 07:56 AM

That's my concern too Daryl. I currently load:

38 grains of 2208 (Varget) under the 75's for a chronographed muzzle velocity of 3,235 fps.
36.5grains of Varget under the 87's for a MV of 3,031fps. (Right on factory specs).
My test medium was at 100 yards.

These are the loads that shoot consistantly very well in this rifle. The 87's under an inch and the 75's around half that. I can't really expect more off a bipod from a Mauser '98 without getting anal. The 75's are 'on' at 100 and 150 yards and 2.5" low at 200 yards. For head shots that puts the cross hair of the reticle on the top of the head at 200 yards+. That's a long shot for me. I could dick around with different 87 projectiles and powders for them, but without sample packs it would get expensive and take time.

I can't understand why the 250-3000 isn't more popular. As Blacks alluded to, the .303-25 was very popular here in Australia and as a Canadian you can appreciate the .303 based wildcats. The .303-25 was flat enough for foxes and back then illegally shooting 'roos, yet big enough for goats and pigs. I loaded my old .303-25 with a very accurate and mild load of 40 grains of 2209 (H4350) under the 87 Speer HP TNT for a chrono'd velocity of 2,730 fps. Not enough velocity for violent expansion but very useable.

I think a lot of people are enamored with text book/published ballistics and velocitys without taking into account the performance of a cartridge in real world conditions off the range.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: tophet1]
      #186344 - 23/07/11 03:44 AM

HA! most of us have more than 1 #3 and some a #4 or 5 - some have all - some like a freind, once had well over 100. I've formed .303's to every calibre from .22 to a straight tapered .408 (.40 Maynard - 1/10" short, I think) - just as an exersize to see how they'd look.

The .257 looks very nice indeed, and if improved, would have been a great one. I have a factory .303/270 (so stamped) and that and the knowledge of others is what prompted me to do this. Ken Water's .375/303 #1 also inspired this.

Some day, I'll re-barrel my only #4 to .35 and put an improved .303/35 chamber in it - what a wonderful round - 1/2 (or 3/4's) from a .358 Winnie a .350 Rem Mag. I figure.

Currently, it's a .312" Express (check Ken Waters book). I thought it was my wildcat, but he'd already done it a couple years ahead of me - so it goes - HA!. Mine runs 174gr. at 2,940fps - with moderate pressure by measure. 1 1/2"/100meters with new factory oversize 2 groove barrel.

I loved my .257 ACKIMP - so I'm surprised I don't have another - maybe the .35/303 will have to wait until a .250/300IMP or .257 International (to be different) comes my way. Hell - the standard, just like yours, would be a LOT less trouble.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tentman
.300 member


Reged: 13/06/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Southland, New Zealand
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: DarylS]
      #186600 - 26/07/11 03:03 PM

Hello Guys

I'm just jumping into the 250-3000 pool after years of being soley wedded to a 7x57 (well I have some other stuff but nothing that gets taken seriously for hunting.

I've recently aquired a couple of Mauser Model B's (they share a bolt, long story, many $$ lets not go there). One will remain an open sighted "Original", the other is away being made "New" having a Kreiger cut rifled barrel fitted, and I have a Slee "Rigby" pattern stock to fit when it gets back, along with a scope.

I hope to carry the "New" one a hell of a lot, hunting all our NZ game, from goats to Wapiti, hopefully a few reds, Chamois and a Tahr in there too.

I'd be real interested in your thoughts on a "go to" projectile for our NZ conditions and game. I'm afraid I only ever use one load in a rifle, so it has to be a compromise for some game.

Cheers

PS meant to mention that the rifles will share the same 21 3/4" barrel profile

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand

Edited by Tentman (26/07/11 03:11 PM)

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kamilaroi
.400 member


Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: Tentman]
      #186603 - 26/07/11 03:42 PM

^ Nosler partition 100 or 120 grns (if you can find any).

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27006
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 250-3000 18 year project. [Re: kamilaroi]
      #186632 - 27/07/11 12:50 AM

Yes - I really liked the 100gr. partition from my .257 AckIMP. I used it on one Elk and 1 moose.

For an all-round bullet, it's probably a good one. The .250/300 should get 2,900fps with it - 24" and maximum but not excessive, load.

The front end is soft like all Noslers, for tissue destruction, but the penetration is there if needed.

No flies on that.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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