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BillfromOregon
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Loc: Oregon high desert
Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400
      #185337 - 07/07/11 07:43 AM

You guys down under have been having waaaay too much fun with your No. 1 Jeffeys, so I had to order one today. Should have it late next week, I'm hoping. Have dies and brass at hand and somewhere, some cast bullets ...

I think I particularly blame you, Ben!


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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #185338 - 07/07/11 08:11 AM

Good on you Bill, You have to enjoy the life you have before your unable to do so.

Cheers,

Jeff Gray

.


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #185339 - 07/07/11 08:32 AM

Right on! You should like that Ruger. Please give a detailed report.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Ben
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: CptCurl]
      #185340 - 07/07/11 09:09 AM

Oooh, good-oh! Good choice, great value. Have fun, and please share some pictures!

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Daryl_S
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Ben]
      #185341 - 07/07/11 10:16 AM

Friend of mine just a bit West of here,has #1's in .303 and .450/400. Aside from rather plain looking wood, they looked and felt just fine - about like any other #1 I've had (only 2).

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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Ben
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Daryl_S]
      #185345 - 07/07/11 11:11 AM

I have plain wood on my .300H&H, but the wood on my .450/.400 3" NE is a little bit fancy.

Bill, don't be afraid to use it on small game, too. Mine has shot small pigs, a wild dog and some chital deer.


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Ben]
      #185347 - 07/07/11 11:23 AM

Ben, I shot a groundhog with my .500NE Merkel. It was a head shot at about 35 yards.

For you guys down under, a groundhog is a small burrowing marmot about the size of a house cat, or smaller.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Empire375
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: CptCurl]
      #185349 - 07/07/11 12:04 PM

How did the groundhog respond I wonder

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Oldbrit
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Empire375]
      #185396 - 08/07/11 06:02 AM

Pure panic - lost its head!

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Kammerherren
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Oldbrit]
      #185437 - 08/07/11 04:16 PM

Good for you Bill! I ordered the same rifle a few days ago, but I`m afraid I have to wait a bit longer. The store told me that the deliveries from Ruger could take up to 6 month..... But, i have die-set ready, and are about to order brass and bullets, so I guess I will have some fun with the .450/400 before I get the rifle! I have to agree on one more thing Bill, I also blame Ben for this purchase.....

--------------------
Collects guns made at Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk in Norway and European sporting rifles 1890-1940, feel free to have a look at my homepage. www.oldkongsbergarms.com


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CHAPUISARMES
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Kammerherren]
      #185441 - 08/07/11 05:23 PM

He's a Bad, Bad, Boy...

But a Bloody Good Bloke to Boot...

Cheers Mate,

Jeff Gray

.


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Ben
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: CHAPUISARMES]
      #185442 - 08/07/11 06:02 PM

Happy to pass-on the disease! Enjoy your rifle!

You have quite a large collection, Kammerherren!


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Kammerherren
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Ben]
      #185444 - 08/07/11 07:29 PM

What can i say Ben? I Like guns....

My collection is not big at all compared to those who actually has a big collection, but i started collecting about 5 years ago, so i have plenty of time! Anyway, I like the old cartridges, so a .450/400 should fit in just fine in my hunting rifle wardrobe.

--------------------
Collects guns made at Kongsberg Våpenfabrikk in Norway and European sporting rifles 1890-1940, feel free to have a look at my homepage. www.oldkongsbergarms.com


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Kammerherren]
      #185447 - 08/07/11 09:02 PM

Ben should get a commission from the sales.

I must admit he makes me have some desire for the Ruger in .450/400 too. Luckily I don't need it now with the A&N Farq.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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bwanabobftw
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: CptCurl]
      #185453 - 08/07/11 10:47 PM

This is spreading like "wildfire" , I just ordered a #1 in .303 !!! Has anyone sent their #1 to Doug Turnbull for case coloring and rust blue ? He advertises a #1 package with metal and wood "makeover" . Might really "dress" one up .
Robert


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #185455 - 08/07/11 11:25 PM

I would like one in .303 also. What a sickness!

Curl

--------------------
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YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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BillfromOregon
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #185456 - 08/07/11 11:28 PM

Kammer: Ruger does tend to make firearms in intermittent runs. I noticed the .450/400s drying up on Gunsamerica and Gunbroker, so I pounced.
Robert: No. 1s in .303 and .450/400 would just about cover all matters, no?
But what fun if Ruger would chamber in .318 WR or .333 Jeff Flanged! It would no doubt be least expensive to buy a No. 1 in a smaller caliber and have it rechambered and rebored.
Now off to Turnbull's site.


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bwanabobftw
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #185457 - 08/07/11 11:46 PM

Yes I agree !!! I actually have an older custom 450/400 3" that JJ Perodeau made for me years ago on a #1 action ( before Ruger made them). The fit and finish on that one is much nicer than the new .303. Let me know what you think of Turnbull's "makeover". I guess we could buy up a few more #1's and go ahead and complete the set with a .318 and .333 ????
Robert


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BillfromOregon
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #185921 - 16/07/11 10:15 AM

Should be here Monday. Loads are waiting ....

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Ben
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #185922 - 16/07/11 10:40 AM

Good-oh!

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Phillip
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Ben]
      #185936 - 16/07/11 07:33 PM

I have been working up a few myself..grabing up some of the classic calibers,



--------------------
My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.
-Winston Churchill


Edited by CptCurl (16/07/11 10:51 PM)


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Rule303
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #185940 - 16/07/11 07:58 PM

Bloody Hell, you blokes are making it harder to fight the temtation to get a No1 in 450-400. With Ben writing about them it has not been easy, now this.

Those after Ruger No1 in 303 British becarful. Alot of them do not shoot. Mine has a .315 grove to grove and is currently back with the importer waiting on Ruger to deceide what they are going to do. If Ruger find that 315 is within specs then I have a rifle that wont shoot any avaliable factory ammo.

The freebore/lead on them is very long, I take it this is so you can use 215grain projectiles in them and still have some jump to the lands.


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Con
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Rule303]
      #185974 - 17/07/11 08:50 AM

Rule303,
Drop me a PM at AHN and we can discuss you purchasing a 450/400NE. With dies, with brass ... mines been a safe queen.
Cheers...
Con


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bwanabobftw
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Con]
      #185975 - 17/07/11 08:55 AM

Rule 303,
I shot my new #1 in .303 this last week. With 215 woodleighs it almost cuts a ragged hole !!!!! Sorry you had bad luck , but some of them will shoot.
Robert


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portdivers
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #185993 - 17/07/11 05:44 PM

Early this year at a Big Game Rifle Club shoot I found myself on the line at 50 yards with my Ruger No.1 450/400 which called for 6 shots in 14 seconds. Got em all away and in the black, repeated the same at 25 yards.

I was later told I could have had more time as I was using a single shot, it shot, ejected and took another cartridge like a swiss clock.

I've just added my 6th a new No.1 in .375 H&H


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209jones
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: portdivers]
      #185996 - 17/07/11 06:18 PM

Just starting to play with mine. It has what I'd call a G1S stock on it, good one side, other is plain. The nice side has some fiddleback though. I bought it cuz I just couldn't find anything else that looked practical to play with, that was a little out of the mainstream cartridges. There is load info around on it for a number of bullets, but a lot of it is scattered.As I get to working with it I'll post what I have tried that works.I have found 2 good pcs of info for it so far,other than Hornady, mostly 400gr stuff, some cast bullet stuff with Trailboss and AA5744, One fella is working with the 300 Horn at present and IMR4831, there is a post on here from 2006 from 470Evans on it with IMR4064 also. There are a few who have done Trailboss and 210 Horn.
I think there is really a lot of potential for this cartridge and gun to become something fun for a lot of people to play with as the data gets collated a bit.


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BillfromOregon
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: 209jones]
      #186063 - 19/07/11 12:52 AM

209:
Yes, data is out there if you scratch around for it. There are a number of loads, including practice loads, in Graeme Wright's "Shooting the English Double Rifle."
Another shooter posted XMP 5744 loads from the ballistician at Western Powder on AR, and I have loaded some mid-range stuff using the Hornady 300 in anticipation of my rifle's arrival this afternoon.
I love your rating of the G1S stock! Ain't it often the truth. I have my fingers crossed for some figure in mine.

Port: Any chance of seeing a video of you shooting your No. 1 at speed? You must have very nice technique, and a reworked safety eh?

Edited by BillfromOregon (19/07/11 12:54 AM)


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BillfromOregon
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186064 - 19/07/11 12:58 AM

This from Degoins at AR:



Posted 15 January 2010 19:10 Hide Post
Here ya go Bill.......Caliber: .450-400 NE 3” (400 Jeffery)
Barrel length: 24 to 26”
Powder: Accurate -- 5744.
Bullet weight: 210 grains.
Reduced load: 37.0 grains (1650 – 1750 ft/p/sec)
Midrange load: 47.0 grains (2200 – 2300 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 60.0 grains (2750 – 2850 Ft/p/sec)
Bullet weight: 300 grains.
Reduced load: 36.0 grains (1650 – 1750 ft/p/sec)
Midrange load: 50.0 grains (2175 – 2275 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 55.0 grains (2275 – 2375 Ft/p/sec).
Bullet weight: 350 grains.
Reduced load: 33.0 grains (1550 – 1650 ft/p/sec)
Midrange load: 44.0 grains (1850 – 1950 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 52.0 grains (2100 – 2200 Ft/p/sec).
Bullet weight: 400 grains.
Reduced load: 30.0 grains (1400 – 1500 ft/p/sec)
Midrange load: 40.0 grains (1700 – 1800 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 49.0 grains (1900 – 2000 Ft/p/sec).
NOTE:
It’ important to note that:
Whenever Accurate Arms do not test, and have actual data, on a particular caliber or caliber/bullet combination, we may in some cases provide some guideline. This information will be based on various procedures and calculations, or from other very reliable sources.
1. SAFETY is our prime concern therefore:
1.1. The loading data is conservative, especially regarding the minimum or start load to ensure a safe baseline to work from.
1.2. The safety margin built into the start load might be more than the customary 10%.
2. We strongly recommend.
2.1. To always start at the recommended minimum “START” load.
2.2. If at all possible, measure the velocity.
2.3. Contact us again with the velocity data, so that we can verify, and correlate with our calculated/estimated data. The data should also be compared, with the typical velocity levels accepted in the industry, for that particular caliber-bullet weight combination.
Regards
Johan Loubser
Ballistician
Western/Accurate Powders
Tel: 1800 497 1007 or (406) 234 04 22
Part of Western Powders -- Miles City Montana
For all Sales, Marketing, Pricing Distribution and related issues, please call toll free 800-497-1007.

I've tried the mid range 210gr loads and they work great in my No.1 and my Searcy. Havent tried the 300 gr loads yet.


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BillfromOregon
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186089 - 19/07/11 10:51 AM

Got it. Very nice figure on left side of butt, above average on right. Nothing rattles. Now to shoot the thing. I'm going to mount an old steel El Paso Weaver K2.5 for the time being.
Will post photos when I can find the danged camera.


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Ben
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186092 - 19/07/11 12:16 PM

Good-oh, Bill.

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BillfromOregon
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Ben]
      #186357 - 23/07/11 09:05 AM

Here are shots of the new Ruger. I'm very pleased with the grain in the butt, even if there is a bit less "fancy" on the right side. Hope to shoot with easy 300-grain loads Sunday or Monday. Will report. I apologize for the harsh afternoon light and shadows.





Edited by CptCurl (23/07/11 11:39 AM)


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Ben
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186360 - 23/07/11 09:18 AM

Nice. The recoil pad seems different to mine. In your neck of the woods, I would absolutely hunt elk or deer or bear with it. I believe in hunting small and medium game with big game rifles in order to gain familiarity, and so the big rifle becomes second-nature. Have fun!

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Daryl_S
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Ben]
      #186361 - 23/07/11 09:22 AM

A bit less on the right side, yes - but it looks fine to me. The forend could have been a bit darker due to the appearance of black striping in the butt- darkening the overall picture.
Oh well- enjoy!

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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BillfromOregon
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Daryl_S]
      #186367 - 23/07/11 10:06 AM

Ben: I put on a Limbsaver to replace the factory recoil pad. Yeah, I'm a sissy.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186374 - 23/07/11 11:40 AM

That's a great looking rifle. You are in for some fun. Please report.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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bonanza
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186376 - 23/07/11 12:06 PM

Thank you Ruger/Hornady for the .450 NE and the 450/400 NE!

Yes, you can have a real Nitro Express rifle for 1/10 of the next cheapest.

The fore-stocks are pretty cheesy on the #1 unless you get lucky.

I wish Ruger would offer "Up Market" rifles.

I think a great idea would be matching pairs in high grade.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

Edited by bonanza (23/07/11 12:07 PM)


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: bonanza]
      #186390 - 23/07/11 08:51 PM

You know, it really sucks - this disease, that is. Only a month or so ago I bought a fine Farquharson in .450/.400 NE and thought that would cure me of any desire for a Ruger. But seeing that Ruger gives me a case of the "I Wants"

Guess I'll have to suppress that desire. Fine gun there.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Daryl_S
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: CptCurl]
      #186406 - 24/07/11 04:17 AM

The best shooting #1's I've had and/or shot, were .375H&H, .218 Bee, 7x57, .25/06 Varmint & .30/06. Each of those shot 1/2" or better. Only the .218 had received any 'accuracy work', while the others only experienced freeing up the forend touching the barrel, which is just normal automatic change for any #1. One .375 H&H didn't care that the forestock was touching the barrel - still shot sub inch with factory 300gr. Silver Tips.

Most guys either love them or hate them - it's the experience which dictates the way the romance goes - sweet or sour.

I've owned or shot only 1/2 doz. or 8 and every one of them was a love afair I didn't want to end - but did, eventually.

Oh my - when I couldn't afford one they were $175.00 and had almost exhibition grade wood - loved those #1's of the early 70's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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bonanza
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: CptCurl]
      #186407 - 24/07/11 04:23 AM

Curl,

That can be your knock-about Fraser nitro rifle. I just got back from having fun at the plinking range with my H-1 and Trail Boss loads. My girl friend gave me a kitchen pass today!

That gong still rings loud and clear when 460 grains slams it at 1200 fps.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: bonanza]
      #186425 - 24/07/11 08:45 AM

Quote:

Curl,

That can be your knock-about Fraser nitro rifle.




Blair,

That's just the rationale that scares me. I'm trying not to think that thought. I don't need a knock-about .450/.400, do I????????

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Rule303
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186462 - 24/07/11 07:55 PM

BillfromO the butt timber looks good to me. Let us know how she shoots.

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BillfromOregon
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Rule303]
      #186474 - 25/07/11 12:06 AM

Oh, Daryl, did you have to mention the accurate .218 Bee?

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Daryl_S
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186482 - 25/07/11 02:33 AM

Oh yeah!

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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209jones
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Loc: Calgary AB
Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Daryl_S]
      #186573 - 26/07/11 03:40 AM

I got the same info from Western when I inquired, Barnes knew of people playing with their 300 & 350 .411 bullets, no info. No reply from Hodgdon, I was thinking they may have had some info from Europe. I will be trying the 5744 with a 300gr LBT WFN-gc and a 400gr LBT LFN-gc with the 416 Gator checks once the moulds arrive, hopefully before Aug15. I got the Saeco 740 mould up to .412 with the Bleimeister shot blend, 406 to 407gr., so, maybe come the long weekend here I will try some trailboss with that. Another fella has run his with a 400LymanPB with 5744 and with blackpowder.
I shot some of the Hornady dgx loads in it so far, the ruger pad did about what I expected, 15 rds before the shoulder started saying I was a silly person. I have a limbsaver on it now. See if that improves it to a box qty before my shoulder starts talking to me again.


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BillfromOregon
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: 209jones]
      #186950 - 31/07/11 09:18 AM

Shot the .450-400 with mild loads -- 45 grains XMP5744 and the Hornady 300, guessing 1950-2000. Recoil was mild and the scope settled in, but we were having so much fun shooting the cape buffalo target that I really didn't go for groups. Will try to shoot again more seriously in the next few days, and might even get the chronograph out. Bear seson opens here on Monday, so I need to be ready. Will report. This is just a very lovely package, the No. 1 in this caliber. "Meant to be."
Get one guys!

Edited by BillfromOregon (31/07/11 09:18 AM)


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Englishman
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #187807 - 11/08/11 10:21 PM

Some very nice pre cut stocks/forends are available off the shelf from Luxus Walnut,take a look at their site. But dont blame me cos you just have to buy one!!
http://www.luxusgunstock.com/
Chris,
France.


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Phillip
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Englishman]
      #187812 - 12/08/11 12:10 AM

They just finished my .300HH,good wood,good job...


--------------------
My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.
-Winston Churchill


Edited by CptCurl (15/08/11 08:24 PM)


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TilleyMan
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #191088 - 30/09/11 10:53 PM

All this talk of Ruger No 1's in classic British calibres finally got me to act... over the last few months I've taken delivery of a new .303 British, and a near-new .450/400 NE 3"

I've owned a few single shots before (mainly Martini Cadets and Martini Enfields) but these are my first No 1's.

As an aside, my .303 barrel slugs out at .3125" and shoots Remington factory 180gr Corelokts into just over an inch straight out of the box.
Winchester and Highland factory ammo is another story, however...

ANYWAY... getting back to the .450/400...

Finally got down to the range with it last weekend.

Only put 5 rounds through as I hadn't got the scope I want to fit with me... solid recoil, but quite manageable... even so I'll be fitting a decent Pachmayr Decelerator pad!

Hornady 400gr DG factory loads seemed a bit lacklustre... no pressure signs, some unburnt powder in the bore, and a couple of rounds were chronied at only 1830fps and 1920fps... well below their advertised velocity of 2050fps huh

Haven't reloaded any cases yet, but trying some projectiles supplied with the rifle in the neck of a fired case led to some surprises... the Bertram 400gr at .408" fitted in fine, the Sierra 210gr .410" was a tight push fit but the Hornady 405 Win 300gr at .411" wouldn't go in at all.

Got out the Mitutoyo digital vernier for a quick check of the fired case's neck dimensions:
OD .4400, .4400, .4400, .4400, .4405"
ID .4095, .4090, .4090, .4095, .4085"

Loaded factory round neck OD .4380, .4360, .4350, .4355, .4355"

So it would seem there is only .002" to .005" total neck expansion or .001" to .0025" per side?

Seems the chamber has a very tight neck diameter, or Hornady brass is fairly thick or has a lot of springback (but seem to have been annealed OK).

I'm worried if I load the Hornady 300gr or go for cast or paper-patched bullets (which will need to be .411 to .412 to suit the .410 groove barrel) they will expand the neck of the case so much they either won't chamber or will not release the neck correctly leading to excessive pressure.

Am I missing something?
Has anyone heard anything about Ruger .450/400 chamber dimensions?
Should I do a Cerrosafe cast to establish exactly what specs Ruger has cut the chamber to?

Any info greatly appreciated... I'm interested in cast/PP bullets but don't want to order any moulds till I sort this out


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Daryl_S
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #191092 - 01/10/11 01:33 AM

Sounds a bit off to me.

There's .005" maximum difference between brass neck thickness as witnessed on loaded ammo - yes - .025" per side - not much for a hunting rifle - closer to a gopher gun.

The .438" case looks to need turning. The rest are pretty good but still tighter than normal, I think.

Did you measure in several spots around the case mouths? Brass is rarely closer than .0015 even, even in match brass.

Sounds as if the chamber is too tight for shooting normally larger diameter cast bullets, if .410's are snug.

Are you able to neck turn a couple thou. from the necks to allow .412" cast? If cast bullets are a push fit + a tich tighter, that's OK and not having to size the brass would be nice when shooting cast.

You might try .410" cast bullets of something like a 12 brinel. You might find the shoot well if not much harder than that. The softer bullet is more likely to obtruate and seal perfectly and shoot exceptionally well, whereas a groove diameter hard bullet rarely shoots well & causes leading due to gas cutting.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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TilleyMan
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Daryl_S]
      #191106 - 01/10/11 07:10 AM

Thanks very much for your help Daryl...

I measured the case neck thickness with a digital ball micrometer... and you are quite right there is MUCH more variation than I thought in wall thickness (I'm not a benchrester... and don't have a neck turner)

Measuring in three spots on each case gave an average of:
.01260"
.01280"
.01295"
.01260"
.01265"

So if I was to go down the PP path (I like the idea of being able to use fast soft lead HP bullets in the .450/400 for our local thin-skinned game) I should try to get the wrapped diameter to .410?

The Buffalo Arms 9lb onion skin paper is .002" thick, and according to their website two wraps equals a .006" increase in diameter (allowing for some compression after wet wrapping and drying)
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=161977

So I need a flat or cup based mould throwing a .404" 400gr grooveless PP bullet?
Or slightly larger and size down to .404"?


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Daryl_S
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #191147 - 02/10/11 05:52 AM

.003" max variation isn't too bad, but shows you can turn all the brass to the smallest size, ie: get rid of the humps. Many cartridges can run upwards of .005".

Once trued (turned) in size, they will give you the extra .002" to .004" clearance needed to shoot proper sized grooved lubricated bullets.

Forester and Hornady both make outside neck turners that can be used to true your brass. Inside reaming does not true the brass wall thickness, only outside turning can do that. That way, you could shoot grooved lubed bullets of the proper size. Outside neck turning can be done with a mandrel and in a lathe, or with a proper outside neck turning tool. It should be much cheaper than buying a single PP mould, probably, then normal moulds (gas checked) will work just fine.

PP bullets do or rather can slug up some to fit, but need a verty fast powder to do that. Normally, smokeless powders are very poor at slugging up an undersized bullet.

Real black powder works perfectly in the slugging up or obturating of the bullets to fill or fit perfectly. Trouble is, it introduces the need for case cleaning, BP lube balls between the bullet and powder, special wads that allow burning powder access to the lube ball, special lubes that soften BP fouling, and much reduced performance compared to smokeless powder. It could/would turn your Ruger into a .450/400BPE, though - if that is attractive to you.

Flat base works just fine for PP,w ith the excess paper merely folded over the base to almost the centre of the bullet. No twisting and cutting off of 'tails' that actually hurts accuracy (did in my rifles). I switched to flat base from the cupped base and used proper length patches for each bullet weight for improved accuracy over the twisted tail, cupped base bullets. Too - I wanted to use am undersized bullet for easy chambering with BP fouling. The cup-based bullet I had was already bore size and too large for this. With black powder loads, my after patching bullet diameter was .451"- ie: bore size. According to Paul Mathews you should be able to push the patched bullet through the bore and leave rifling marks only on the paper. This was how I made mine - using proper thickness patching. Accuracy was wonderful right off the bat with the first load tried.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII

Edited by Daryl_S (03/10/11 02:36 AM)


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bonanza
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #191149 - 02/10/11 08:07 AM

What is the weight?

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"


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Ron_A
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #192294 - 22/10/11 10:58 AM

Just got my 450/400 back from turnbull after it was cased - looks outstanding. Had frame, lever, and rib all cased. Then remembered that I also need to have rings cased and sent them a set to finish today.

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FATBOY404
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Ron_A]
      #192296 - 22/10/11 11:12 AM

Quote:

Just got my 450/400 back from turnbull after it was cased - looks outstanding. Had frame, lever, and rib all cased. Then remembered that I also need to have rings cased and sent them a set to finish today.




I would Like to see some photo's Ron_A of it complete.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"


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Ben
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: FATBOY404]
      #192305 - 22/10/11 02:13 PM

Yes, I would like to see photos, too!

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TilleyMan
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Ben]
      #193273 - 07/11/11 10:47 PM

Trying to work up some loads for my No1 .450/400 NE 3"

I have the Hornady data sheet which gives some 400gr loads, but I'm struggling a bit finding loads for the lighter bullets using powders available in Australia...

I've got some Hornady .411" 300gr SP (originally for the 405 Win) which I think would be a good load for big pigs, Sambar deer etc.

All I can find so far is RL-15 data (64.0gr + Dacron filler for ~2100fps with a 300gr bullet) which is the same charge as the 400gr bullet... using the '75% Rule' so a double rifle will still regulate with the lighter load.

I'm after some full-house loads for the 300gr bullet which should surely get to ~2400fps safely in a No1?

I've also got some 41 cal .410" 210gr Speer pistol bullets for which 28.0gr to 30.0gr Trailboss is recommended. Could be a great cheap plinking load

All info gratefully received...


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TilleyMan
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #193695 - 13/11/11 12:17 PM

Here's a line-up of what I will test next weekend





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Daryl_S
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #193752 - 14/11/11 04:19 AM

I should think H4895 or Varget (a bit slower) would work OK with 300gr. and 350gr. bullets.

The only way to find a load (that I can see) will be to start with 400gr. loads and go up a couple gr. at a time form there.

I suspect you'll be shooting close to a full case of powder(maybe even compressed) by the time you get to anything resembling maximum pressures with the light bullets. The ballistics should show better than .416Rem by the time you hit descent pressure for the #1.

I also think the projected 2,400fps is quite conservative, afterall, how does the case capacity compare with known .40's? I am thinking of the .416Taylor, .416 Remington, and the .416 Rigby. Where does the .450/400 case fit?

Some load extropolation could be worked out from known data, especially when you use H4895 or the ADI quivalence as H4895 can work down to 50% reduction with total safety.

Some powders can become dangerous when reduced. This makes H4895 a great powder for load development as it's safer to work with and ignites easily in less than full case loads.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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TilleyMan
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Daryl_S]
      #199277 - 12/01/12 08:31 PM

Quick update on last weekend's range trip... Part 1, Christmas got in the way of Part 2

Planned load lineup:


Planned bullet lineup:


Changed slightly since taking the above photos...

Found some more .450/400 load data from an article by John Barsness in Handloader Magazine Feb March 2012 (thanks Con!) called Modernising Two Old .40's.

He lists some loads specifically for the Ruger No 1 in .450/400 at modern pressures (but still within CIP/SAAMI limits) vs the more conservative loads necessary for double rifle construction and regulation.

I tried the 400gr Woodleigh RNSN in front of 90gr ADI 2213SC through the chrony at 2288 and 2290fps.
Then the same load behind a 400gr Hornady DGX at 2298 and 2293fps (Federal 215 Magnum primers)
Recoil was pretty brisk at those velocities

Next the 300gr Hornady SP .411" (405 Win bullet)
This was the eye-opener... you were quite right Daryl 2400fps was quite conservative!

The Barsness article indicated that 85gr 2206H would give ~2637fps. In my rifle (with 1gr Dacron wadding) velocity with this load was quite incredible at 2831 and 2837fps, case extraction still easy but noticeably more 'sticky' than traditional loads. Way too fast for the .405 Win's bullet construction velocity envelope (~2200fps) Backed off to about 2650fps this load would be great for lots of hunting in Australia...

Finally some light Trailboss loads...
31.5gr and 30.5gr loads were trialled behind the Sierra 210gr HP pistol bullet at 1915 and 1888fps respectively. These were of course very mild to shoot, and stabilised fine in the barrel twist at these velocities, make great plinker loads as well as probably being quite effective on close range pigs

Next trip I'll so some more load development with the 300gr Hornady, perhaps using RL-15 and the cordite conversion factor of 1.19 for the original 70gr cordite load (vs 55/60gr cordite for the 400gr) making 83.3gr RL-15 to duplicate the lighter original cordite load at 2600fps... then work up a little to about 85gr.

I'll also trial some more slightly reduced full power loads using ~85gr 2213SC for around 2150-2200fps using the 400gr Bertram and 400gr Hornady solids in Part 2... along with some accuracy tests.

Edited by CptCurl (16/01/12 01:23 AM)


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Rule303
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #199285 - 12/01/12 10:12 PM

TilleyMan your report is very informative. There is plenty of life left in the old cartridge.

I have found the Bertram pills in 416 to be as Bruce says, good for most game but not Scrub Bulls or Buff. Well I have not shot Bulls or Buff yet but on a smaller pig it sure opened it up.


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Daryl_S
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Rule303]
      #199301 - 13/01/12 04:25 AM

Sounds like lots of fun, TilleyMan. I'm really glad John featured that round in the new magazine. Guess I'll have to find one.

Those 210gr. pistol bullets would be fun. Seems to me, one of the pistol bullet makers made some a bit heavier- 220gr. to 240gr. maybe?

With Trail Boss, which is always fun to shoot in any rifle, the pistol bullets would make really fun plinkers with power "PWP"- the heavier ones would be quite suitable for pigs as long as they aren't going too fast to cause bad breakup. Think of anything you could shoot with a .41 mag. handgun and you have more power than that with no recoil and much better accuracy.

What a fun gun! Like shooting pistol bullets in a .35 Whelen, but having even more power instantly available exchanging for a 'big round'.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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TilleyMan
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Daryl_S]
      #199434 - 14/01/12 04:01 PM

The .450/400 in a Ruger No 1 has indeed been a LOT of fun

As you say, a very flexible medium bore with cheap 41 cal 210gr jacketed pistol bullets for plinking at ~1800fps, a relatively flatter shooting 300gr spire point for medium game at ~2650fps and a 400gr RNSN at ~2200fps for heavy game.

The biggest problem is getting even two loads to print reasonably close together... my 400gr reloads print one foot higher than the factory Hornady 'Dangerous Game' 400gr loads!
I'll try 85gr RL-15 behind the 300gr Hornady and then 85gr 2213SC behind the 400gr Hornady... does the '70% rule' apply?

BTW not impressed with the Hornady 400gr factory ammo, only doing 1827 and 1929fps in my rifle, with incomplete burning... soot and unburned kernels right down the bore vs ADI 2213SC and Trailboss loads which both burned very cleanly, a nice bright bore after every shot!

I'm keen to order a 400gr paper patched HP mould, and get a soft cast lead option too... much cheaper than Woodleighs at $2+ per shot too


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Phillip
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #201591 - 03/02/12 10:48 PM

I added this pad to mine..much better!

Now I'm working on the sights...


--------------------
My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.
-Winston Churchill


Edited by CptCurl (06/03/12 11:34 PM)


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Drew_Jaeger
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Phillip]
      #203917 - 27/02/12 04:45 PM

Hey Fellas, I haven’t been on Nitro Express for a while, a thousand apologies. However, in the last twelve months I have been enjoying using my Ruger No.1 450/400 NE3” on Buffalo, Donkeys and Fallow Deer.




400gr Woodleigh RNSN – 83.0grs AR2213SC (=H4831SC)


400gr Woodleigh FMJ – 82grs AR2213SC (=H4831SC)

The Kahles 1.5-6x42mm is now on my Remington 700 in 358W.

--------------------
Cheers

Drew


Edited by CptCurl (06/03/12 11:34 PM)


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Daryl_S
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Drew_Jaeger]
      #203954 - 28/02/12 03:14 AM

Drew - that #1 thinks it's a match rifle! Very, very nice groups! Not a lot of guys can do that consistantly, as you are probably well aware.

Your #1 sure seems to enjoy punching paper, that's a given.

I expect the buffalo, donkeys and fallow deer secume quite handily when it speaks.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Phillip]
      #204620 - 06/03/12 11:36 PM

Quote:

I added this pad to mine..much better!

Now I'm working on the sights...





That pad and rear sight look like worthy improvements.

But isn't the rear sight in backwards? I think the relieved side is supposed to be in front, if I'm not mistaken.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Daryl_S
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: CptCurl]
      #204651 - 07/03/12 04:48 AM

Yes about the sight - it is 180 degrees incorrect and will promote glare if left that way.

--------------------
Daryl


"a rifle without hammers, is like a Spaniel without ears" Edward VII


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470Krieg
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Daryl_S]
      #242000 - 09/02/14 12:09 AM

I've just ordered a no.1 in 450/.400, can't wait to test this gun. I'm now looking for a riflescope to make this rifle complete. Found this scope, any thoughts ??




Nickel AG Safari 1.5-6x30 EDS

Edited by CptCurl (21/04/14 09:40 PM)


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Trailboss
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: 470Krieg]
      #253465 - 12/09/14 06:13 AM

Looks like a good scope from here, scopes, scopes and more scopes. Just depends on where and how you are going to use the firearm, some scopes are only good for specific areas depending on the type of hunt you are doing and the conditions of the hunt, this is what I use for my 450/400. It is a VXIII in 1.5x5 with a German reticle.



Edited by CptCurl (17/09/14 09:35 PM)


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thetexasrifleman
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Phillip]
      #270135 - 08/09/15 02:18 AM

Quote:

I added this pad to mine..much better!



What pad is this? I would like to add something like this to my new Ruger No. 1... I love this rifle! I was able to find one of the thirty two made with a D Weight barrel, so I've go some extra weight to help with recoil.

Has anyone used light loads with pistol bullets for hunting smaller game such as Mule Deer? I picked up some Hornady 240gr that look like they might be effective. I'm new to the forum and I'm ready to learn. Thanks!

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Lix
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: thetexasrifleman]
      #270166 - 08/09/15 09:08 AM

I have some 325gr projies from Hawk bullets. That I have used to good effect on fallow and pigs. Good bullet out of my #1

Alex


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thetexasrifleman
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Lix]
      #270554 - 16/09/15 10:07 AM

I finally found some Trail Boss and some H4831SC. Time to try some rounds this weekend. At long last, the moment is nigh!

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