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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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209jones
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Reged: 29/05/11
Posts: 13
Loc: Calgary AB
Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: portdivers]
      #185996 - 17/07/11 06:18 PM

Just starting to play with mine. It has what I'd call a G1S stock on it, good one side, other is plain. The nice side has some fiddleback though. I bought it cuz I just couldn't find anything else that looked practical to play with, that was a little out of the mainstream cartridges. There is load info around on it for a number of bullets, but a lot of it is scattered.As I get to working with it I'll post what I have tried that works.I have found 2 good pcs of info for it so far,other than Hornady, mostly 400gr stuff, some cast bullet stuff with Trailboss and AA5744, One fella is working with the 300 Horn at present and IMR4831, there is a post on here from 2006 from 470Evans on it with IMR4064 also. There are a few who have done Trailboss and 210 Horn.
I think there is really a lot of potential for this cartridge and gun to become something fun for a lot of people to play with as the data gets collated a bit.

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BillfromOregon
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: 209jones]
      #186063 - 19/07/11 12:52 AM

209:
Yes, data is out there if you scratch around for it. There are a number of loads, including practice loads, in Graeme Wright's "Shooting the English Double Rifle."
Another shooter posted XMP 5744 loads from the ballistician at Western Powder on AR, and I have loaded some mid-range stuff using the Hornady 300 in anticipation of my rifle's arrival this afternoon.
I love your rating of the G1S stock! Ain't it often the truth. I have my fingers crossed for some figure in mine.

Port: Any chance of seeing a video of you shooting your No. 1 at speed? You must have very nice technique, and a reworked safety eh?

Edited by BillfromOregon (19/07/11 12:54 AM)

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BillfromOregon
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186064 - 19/07/11 12:58 AM

This from Degoins at AR:



Posted 15 January 2010 19:10 Hide Post
Here ya go Bill.......Caliber: .450-400 NE 3” (400 Jeffery)
Barrel length: 24 to 26”
Powder: Accurate -- 5744.
Bullet weight: 210 grains.
Reduced load: 37.0 grains (1650 – 1750 ft/p/sec)
Midrange load: 47.0 grains (2200 – 2300 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 60.0 grains (2750 – 2850 Ft/p/sec)
Bullet weight: 300 grains.
Reduced load: 36.0 grains (1650 – 1750 ft/p/sec)
Midrange load: 50.0 grains (2175 – 2275 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 55.0 grains (2275 – 2375 Ft/p/sec).
Bullet weight: 350 grains.
Reduced load: 33.0 grains (1550 – 1650 ft/p/sec)
Midrange load: 44.0 grains (1850 – 1950 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 52.0 grains (2100 – 2200 Ft/p/sec).
Bullet weight: 400 grains.
Reduced load: 30.0 grains (1400 – 1500 ft/p/sec)
Midrange load: 40.0 grains (1700 – 1800 ft/p/sec)
Maximum load: 49.0 grains (1900 – 2000 Ft/p/sec).
NOTE:
It’ important to note that:
Whenever Accurate Arms do not test, and have actual data, on a particular caliber or caliber/bullet combination, we may in some cases provide some guideline. This information will be based on various procedures and calculations, or from other very reliable sources.
1. SAFETY is our prime concern therefore:
1.1. The loading data is conservative, especially regarding the minimum or start load to ensure a safe baseline to work from.
1.2. The safety margin built into the start load might be more than the customary 10%.
2. We strongly recommend.
2.1. To always start at the recommended minimum “START” load.
2.2. If at all possible, measure the velocity.
2.3. Contact us again with the velocity data, so that we can verify, and correlate with our calculated/estimated data. The data should also be compared, with the typical velocity levels accepted in the industry, for that particular caliber-bullet weight combination.
Regards
Johan Loubser
Ballistician
Western/Accurate Powders
Tel: 1800 497 1007 or (406) 234 04 22
Part of Western Powders -- Miles City Montana
For all Sales, Marketing, Pricing Distribution and related issues, please call toll free 800-497-1007.

I've tried the mid range 210gr loads and they work great in my No.1 and my Searcy. Havent tried the 300 gr loads yet.

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BillfromOregon
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186089 - 19/07/11 10:51 AM

Got it. Very nice figure on left side of butt, above average on right. Nothing rattles. Now to shoot the thing. I'm going to mount an old steel El Paso Weaver K2.5 for the time being.
Will post photos when I can find the danged camera.

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Ben
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186092 - 19/07/11 12:16 PM

Good-oh, Bill.

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BillfromOregon
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Ben]
      #186357 - 23/07/11 09:05 AM

Here are shots of the new Ruger. I'm very pleased with the grain in the butt, even if there is a bit less "fancy" on the right side. Hope to shoot with easy 300-grain loads Sunday or Monday. Will report. I apologize for the harsh afternoon light and shadows.





Edited by CptCurl (23/07/11 11:39 AM)

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Ben
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186360 - 23/07/11 09:18 AM

Nice. The recoil pad seems different to mine. In your neck of the woods, I would absolutely hunt elk or deer or bear with it. I believe in hunting small and medium game with big game rifles in order to gain familiarity, and so the big rifle becomes second-nature. Have fun!

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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Ben]
      #186361 - 23/07/11 09:22 AM

A bit less on the right side, yes - but it looks fine to me. The forend could have been a bit darker due to the appearance of black striping in the butt- darkening the overall picture.
Oh well- enjoy!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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BillfromOregon
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Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas
Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: DarylS]
      #186367 - 23/07/11 10:06 AM

Ben: I put on a Limbsaver to replace the factory recoil pad. Yeah, I'm a sissy.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186374 - 23/07/11 11:40 AM

That's a great looking rifle. You are in for some fun. Please report.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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bonanza
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Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186376 - 23/07/11 12:06 PM

Thank you Ruger/Hornady for the .450 NE and the 450/400 NE!

Yes, you can have a real Nitro Express rifle for 1/10 of the next cheapest.

The fore-stocks are pretty cheesy on the #1 unless you get lucky.

I wish Ruger would offer "Up Market" rifles.

I think a great idea would be matching pairs in high grade.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

Edited by bonanza (23/07/11 12:07 PM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: bonanza]
      #186390 - 23/07/11 08:51 PM

You know, it really sucks - this disease, that is. Only a month or so ago I bought a fine Farquharson in .450/.400 NE and thought that would cure me of any desire for a Ruger. But seeing that Ruger gives me a case of the "I Wants"

Guess I'll have to suppress that desire. Fine gun there.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: CptCurl]
      #186406 - 24/07/11 04:17 AM

The best shooting #1's I've had and/or shot, were .375H&H, .218 Bee, 7x57, .25/06 Varmint & .30/06. Each of those shot 1/2" or better. Only the .218 had received any 'accuracy work', while the others only experienced freeing up the forend touching the barrel, which is just normal automatic change for any #1. One .375 H&H didn't care that the forestock was touching the barrel - still shot sub inch with factory 300gr. Silver Tips.

Most guys either love them or hate them - it's the experience which dictates the way the romance goes - sweet or sour.

I've owned or shot only 1/2 doz. or 8 and every one of them was a love afair I didn't want to end - but did, eventually.

Oh my - when I couldn't afford one they were $175.00 and had almost exhibition grade wood - loved those #1's of the early 70's.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: CptCurl]
      #186407 - 24/07/11 04:23 AM

Curl,

That can be your knock-about Fraser nitro rifle. I just got back from having fun at the plinking range with my H-1 and Trail Boss loads. My girl friend gave me a kitchen pass today!

That gong still rings loud and clear when 460 grains slams it at 1200 fps.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5271
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: bonanza]
      #186425 - 24/07/11 08:45 AM

Quote:

Curl,

That can be your knock-about Fraser nitro rifle.



Blair,

That's just the rationale that scares me. I'm trying not to think that thought. I don't need a knock-about .450/.400, do I????????

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Rule303
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Posts: 4912
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186462 - 24/07/11 07:55 PM

BillfromO the butt timber looks good to me. Let us know how she shoots.

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BillfromOregon
.333 member


Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas
Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Rule303]
      #186474 - 25/07/11 12:06 AM

Oh, Daryl, did you have to mention the accurate .218 Bee?

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DarylS
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #186482 - 25/07/11 02:33 AM

Oh yeah!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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209jones
.224 member


Reged: 29/05/11
Posts: 13
Loc: Calgary AB
Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: DarylS]
      #186573 - 26/07/11 03:40 AM

I got the same info from Western when I inquired, Barnes knew of people playing with their 300 & 350 .411 bullets, no info. No reply from Hodgdon, I was thinking they may have had some info from Europe. I will be trying the 5744 with a 300gr LBT WFN-gc and a 400gr LBT LFN-gc with the 416 Gator checks once the moulds arrive, hopefully before Aug15. I got the Saeco 740 mould up to .412 with the Bleimeister shot blend, 406 to 407gr., so, maybe come the long weekend here I will try some trailboss with that. Another fella has run his with a 400LymanPB with 5744 and with blackpowder.
I shot some of the Hornady dgx loads in it so far, the ruger pad did about what I expected, 15 rds before the shoulder started saying I was a silly person. I have a limbsaver on it now. See if that improves it to a box qty before my shoulder starts talking to me again.

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BillfromOregon
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Reged: 27/10/04
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: 209jones]
      #186950 - 31/07/11 09:18 AM

Shot the .450-400 with mild loads -- 45 grains XMP5744 and the Hornady 300, guessing 1950-2000. Recoil was mild and the scope settled in, but we were having so much fun shooting the cape buffalo target that I really didn't go for groups. Will try to shoot again more seriously in the next few days, and might even get the chronograph out. Bear seson opens here on Monday, so I need to be ready. Will report. This is just a very lovely package, the No. 1 in this caliber. "Meant to be."
Get one guys!

Edited by BillfromOregon (31/07/11 09:18 AM)

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Englishman
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #187807 - 11/08/11 10:21 PM

Some very nice pre cut stocks/forends are available off the shelf from Luxus Walnut,take a look at their site. But dont blame me cos you just have to buy one!!
http://www.luxusgunstock.com/
Chris,
France.

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Phillip
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Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: Englishman]
      #187812 - 12/08/11 12:10 AM

They just finished my .300HH,good wood,good job...


--------------------
My rule of life prescribed as an absolutely sacred rite smoking cigars and also the drinking of alcohol before, after and if need be during all meals and in the intervals between them.
-Winston Churchill


Edited by CptCurl (15/08/11 08:24 PM)

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TilleyMan
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Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: BillfromOregon]
      #191088 - 30/09/11 10:53 PM

All this talk of Ruger No 1's in classic British calibres finally got me to act... over the last few months I've taken delivery of a new .303 British, and a near-new .450/400 NE 3"

I've owned a few single shots before (mainly Martini Cadets and Martini Enfields) but these are my first No 1's.

As an aside, my .303 barrel slugs out at .3125" and shoots Remington factory 180gr Corelokts into just over an inch straight out of the box.
Winchester and Highland factory ammo is another story, however...

ANYWAY... getting back to the .450/400...

Finally got down to the range with it last weekend.

Only put 5 rounds through as I hadn't got the scope I want to fit with me... solid recoil, but quite manageable... even so I'll be fitting a decent Pachmayr Decelerator pad!

Hornady 400gr DG factory loads seemed a bit lacklustre... no pressure signs, some unburnt powder in the bore, and a couple of rounds were chronied at only 1830fps and 1920fps... well below their advertised velocity of 2050fps huh

Haven't reloaded any cases yet, but trying some projectiles supplied with the rifle in the neck of a fired case led to some surprises... the Bertram 400gr at .408" fitted in fine, the Sierra 210gr .410" was a tight push fit but the Hornady 405 Win 300gr at .411" wouldn't go in at all.

Got out the Mitutoyo digital vernier for a quick check of the fired case's neck dimensions:
OD .4400, .4400, .4400, .4400, .4405"
ID .4095, .4090, .4090, .4095, .4085"

Loaded factory round neck OD .4380, .4360, .4350, .4355, .4355"

So it would seem there is only .002" to .005" total neck expansion or .001" to .0025" per side?

Seems the chamber has a very tight neck diameter, or Hornady brass is fairly thick or has a lot of springback (but seem to have been annealed OK).

I'm worried if I load the Hornady 300gr or go for cast or paper-patched bullets (which will need to be .411 to .412 to suit the .410 groove barrel) they will expand the neck of the case so much they either won't chamber or will not release the neck correctly leading to excessive pressure.

Am I missing something?
Has anyone heard anything about Ruger .450/400 chamber dimensions?
Should I do a Cerrosafe cast to establish exactly what specs Ruger has cut the chamber to?

Any info greatly appreciated... I'm interested in cast/PP bullets but don't want to order any moulds till I sort this out

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DarylS
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Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: TilleyMan]
      #191092 - 01/10/11 01:33 AM

Sounds a bit off to me.

There's .005" maximum difference between brass neck thickness as witnessed on loaded ammo - yes - .025" per side - not much for a hunting rifle - closer to a gopher gun.

The .438" case looks to need turning. The rest are pretty good but still tighter than normal, I think.

Did you measure in several spots around the case mouths? Brass is rarely closer than .0015 even, even in match brass.

Sounds as if the chamber is too tight for shooting normally larger diameter cast bullets, if .410's are snug.

Are you able to neck turn a couple thou. from the necks to allow .412" cast? If cast bullets are a push fit + a tich tighter, that's OK and not having to size the brass would be nice when shooting cast.

You might try .410" cast bullets of something like a 12 brinel. You might find the shoot well if not much harder than that. The softer bullet is more likely to obtruate and seal perfectly and shoot exceptionally well, whereas a groove diameter hard bullet rarely shoots well & causes leading due to gas cutting.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TilleyMan
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Reged: 23/08/05
Posts: 272
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Ruger No. 1 incoming, .450-400 [Re: DarylS]
      #191106 - 01/10/11 07:10 AM

Thanks very much for your help Daryl...

I measured the case neck thickness with a digital ball micrometer... and you are quite right there is MUCH more variation than I thought in wall thickness (I'm not a benchrester... and don't have a neck turner)

Measuring in three spots on each case gave an average of:
.01260"
.01280"
.01295"
.01260"
.01265"

So if I was to go down the PP path (I like the idea of being able to use fast soft lead HP bullets in the .450/400 for our local thin-skinned game) I should try to get the wrapped diameter to .410?

The Buffalo Arms 9lb onion skin paper is .002" thick, and according to their website two wraps equals a .006" increase in diameter (allowing for some compression after wet wrapping and drying)
http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=161977

So I need a flat or cup based mould throwing a .404" 400gr grooveless PP bullet?
Or slightly larger and size down to .404"?

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