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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Ckhobart]
      #232323 - 11/07/13 02:44 AM

I have just returned from my club after firing this rifle for regulation. Two weeks ago I was not happy with the way the left barrel was spreading its shots. I spent some time with the two muzzle-crowning tools shown in the one photo, and three different grades of grinding/polishing compound. I also heated and adjusted the barrels using my new regulation rig (shown elsewhere). The results are startling, as you can see. I experienced the same dramatic improvement after re-crowning one barrel of a friend's .375 Fl. Mag. double a few weeks ago. Something to remember if you encounter a similar problem. I'm a happy camper today! Time to tear her down and start polishing and rust bluing!



[URL=http://s591.photobucket.com/user/ronvella/media/targets002_zps8e4d8eba.jpg.html][/URL]

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26499
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #232335 - 11/07/13 09:41 AM

Well done, Ron.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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gallatin
.224 member


Reged: 30/05/07
Posts: 44
Loc: Olympia,Wa. USA
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: DarylS]
      #232468 - 14/07/13 09:32 AM

no kidding, great shooting.
John

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Ckhobart
.275 member


Reged: 26/06/13
Posts: 84
Loc: Reno, NV
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: gallatin]
      #232537 - 15/07/13 06:40 PM

Wonderful. I'd buy a rifle from you, if I wasn't intent on building my own

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Rhodes
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/11
Posts: 94
Loc: NQ, Australia
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Ckhobart]
      #232595 - 16/07/13 06:54 PM

Nice work Ron

I'd wondered how the muzzle crowns would hold up after having to re-profile a barrel.
I guess the answer lies above and you've found the solution.

Great stuff

Rhodes

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Rhodes
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/11
Posts: 94
Loc: NQ, Australia
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Rhodes]
      #232596 - 16/07/13 07:33 PM

Ron

Have you tried running your loads through Quickload?
I'd be happy to input your loads at this end so you have a bit of a guide to the pressures you are developing. Within the limits of the software of course.

We've been using it work up loads with different powders in a 9.3 on this side of the pond. It's an invaluable tool when you don't have load data available.

You can send a PM if you wish.

Regards
Rhodes

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Rhodes]
      #232617 - 17/07/13 05:02 AM

Rhodes,
I have not used Quickload. I'm using a relatively mild load from the newest Nosler manual, the 286 grain Nosler partition over 61.0 grains of IMR 4350. I see no pressure signs whatsoever but I'd be very interested in how Quickload rates that load.

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Rhodes
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/11
Posts: 94
Loc: NQ, Australia
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #232629 - 17/07/13 06:06 PM

No problem Ron

I have
286gr Nosler Partition Bullet
61.0gr of IMR4350
24" barrel

If you could tell me the cartridge overall length of your loads, that will give me your bullet seating depth.

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Rhodes]
      #232647 - 18/07/13 06:16 AM

Rhodes,
Here's the info:
barrel length: 26"
bullet length: 1.371"
overall cartridge length: 3.712"
seating depth: .584"

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Rhodes
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/11
Posts: 94
Loc: NQ, Australia
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #232660 - 18/07/13 07:55 PM

ok first up to get the formalities out of the way. Anyone reading this should be aware that this info is only to be used as a guide and that actual results may vary, standard reloading and pressure measurement practices should be used on actual handloads.


Now the fun part.

Ron, this is what I get.

The red arrows show the fields I inputed with your data. I used COAL and Bullet Length as that is the most accurate way to determine the chamber space below the bullet. Everything else is generated by quickload. The results are in the red circles.

Calculated Pressure = 45,515 psi
Calculated Muzzle Velocity = 2,335 fps

This of course assumes all tolerances and powder burn rates are ideal. I see you chronographed 2235 fps which suggests to me the pressure of your loads are less than indicated here? If I reduce the powder charge until it matched your chronograph reading it shows ~41,000 psi, either way it looks to be a mild load as you say. I've also read that some users have found the estimates to be on the high side but I can't vouch for this either way.



hope this helps.

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Rhodes]
      #232803 - 22/07/13 12:07 PM

Interesting info Rhodes, thank you. The velocity that I gave you is an average of 10 shots, 5 from each barrel, thru my Shooting Chrony, so it's pretty accurate.

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Rhodes
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/11
Posts: 94
Loc: NQ, Australia
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #233053 - 28/07/13 03:08 PM

Ron

Definitely use your chrony result that you measured.
The takeaway from this is that your measured velocity is lower so your pressure should be lower. That's the way I see it.
QL is only a program so it's only as good as the data inputted. If, for example, your batch of powder had a different burn rate to the data in QL or it was affected by your different climate, it will give a different result. I remember stumbling across a discussion on here some time back about how IMR powders were climate sensitive and H powders were more stable. I think Daryl S was involved in this. Maybe he could chime in. Anyhow, not to drag the thread off topic.

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Rhodes]
      #235735 - 18/09/13 05:25 AM

Here are a few photos of this rifle, finally finished to my satisfaction. I did 13 applications, boilings, and cardings until I got the rust blue just so. There are 30 applications of Tru-Oil, coloured with alkanet root on the wood. After each 10 coats, I let it dry for a week, then rubbed it out with pumice and boiled linseed oil on a felt pad. After the final go-round, I let it dry for a week and then also rubbed it out with rottenstone and boiled linseed. I'm pretty happy with the results, the gun looks good and shoots better than one could even hope for.

If any of you are at the Vintage Cup, I'll be there on Friday and Saturday and will have this gun with me if you're interested in seeing it. Look for the guy who's 6'10" tall and weighs 315lbs, that'
ll be me! Hopefully I'll get to use it on a big bull moose during the first two weeks of October.

Best to all,
Ron Vella.






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Ckhobart
.275 member


Reged: 26/06/13
Posts: 84
Loc: Reno, NV
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #235743 - 18/09/13 07:40 AM

absolutely gorgeous. Should try to get some daylight pics to do the wood and blueing justice though, if I might ask

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Ckhobart]
      #235770 - 19/09/13 02:17 AM

As requested, I have deleted yesterday's photos, which were taken indoors, and have posted some new ones which I took outdoors this morning. They are a bit better, I think.

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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1641
Loc: Finland
Re: Double rifle project, calibre 9.3x74R [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #235778 - 19/09/13 06:02 AM

Nice rifle. It seems that you should have quite long arms (recoil pad looks thicker as usually...?)

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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